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Fp zero vs hx40

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red_devil

15+ Year Contributor
1,379
96
Jul 13, 2005
Richmond, Virginia
Forced Performance are having a sale on their dsm zero.

Need opinions on running this in place of my hx40 w/.55 bolt on housing. I have been thinking about switching to a t3 manifold and either the .70 or the .82 t3 housing. Goals are 400-450hp on pump gas 2.0 and 9:1 compression if its possible, if not 450-475hp on e85. The price difference isn't a whole lot after a custom manifold and hot parts. Just wondering if the zero could be enough on pump gas and keeping spool relatively decent. The t3 setup should be plenty capable but with some lag.
 
Im running a hx40 in a bep .55 , t3 for me one day, but 450 shouldnt be a problem i think the holset woudl be better just my opinon. Plus easier to fix if it breaks, fp turbos.
 
I run an hy35 with a turbonetics T3 cast mani at 28 psi on 93 pump. I dynoed 408whp on a mustang dyno. Just to put it in perspective, my hy has a 54mm comp wheel, while the hx40 I believe has a 60mm wheel. So your power level would be attainable with reasonable boost levels on pump. Both turbos will be laggy for your desired power levels though. However, going T3 gets you away from the dsm flange and would probably knock less on pump. Plus it opens the options for later on
 
Hx40 is plenty of turbo. The zero is new to the lineup so hard to truly compare. Nate Crisman ran a 9.1 on the zero spraying down the track. I ran a 9.26 on a hx40 without spraying down the track. Both of our cars are on e85 cranked all the way up so a bit off topic from your question. They will both produce some lag being in the 60mm range but I don’t believe you are gonna gain much if you did buy the zero. I ran both the .70 bep and the turbo lab .82 didn’t see any difference except the quality of the housings. Now when I went all out and put the hx40 in the twin scroll t4 housing my powerband came on way faster. Again I’m getting off topic just wanted to share my experience. Here is a video on pump gas hx40 Mexico hit. HP unknown but it got the job done.
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Hx40 is plenty of turbo. The zero is new to the lineup so hard to truly compare. Nate Crisman ran a 9.1 on the zero spraying down the track. I ran a 9.26 on a hx40 without spraying down the track. Both of our cars are on e85 cranked all the way up so a bit off topic from your question. They will both produce some lag being in the 60mm range but I don’t believe you are gonna gain much if you did buy the zero. I ran both the .70 bep and the turbo lab .82 didn’t see any difference except the quality of the housings. Now when I went all out and put the hx40 in the twin scroll t4 housing my powerband came on way faster. Again I’m getting off topic just wanted to share my experience. Here is a video on pump gas hx40 Mexico hit. HP unknown but it got the job done.
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So no notable difference in lag between the .70 and .82? It's much cheaper and should be more pump gas friendly.
 
I didn’t notice any going through my logs. Different manufactures one is made in USA the other probably China. The bep is 100% hands down way better quality.
 
The zero is basically a 3586HTZwith a slightly different turbine wheel. So if you are looking for comparison. Look to that turbo. Plenty of results and even compairisons to an hx40. The zero will make more power as it’s a 62mm vs a 60mm.

the zero also is rated for 78lbs per min, meaning capable of almost 800hp
 
I didn’t notice any going through my logs. Different manufactures one is made in USA the other probably China. The bep is 100% hands down way better quality.

Aren't the .82 housing based off the newer PTE housing with better quality casting and design??

I would think a red would be a better option for that power level. You're looking at a very big, laggy turbo in that zero.

The red would be a downgrade to a hx40. I was just looking at the zero because they are going for $600 off and would be the highest flowing bolt on available.
 
I’m not sure what they’re based off of honestly I can tell you they aren’t manufactured in the USA. I was trying to find a side by side of the bep and the turbo lab housing. Physically the bep is beefier and being different manufactures it’s damn near impossible to measure the volutes of the 2 without cutting them both in half and measuring. I never dynoed the 2 to compare just going off my results at the track and that was when I was still on link. I never had to adjust the VE table and my short track and the big end never changed.
If you want to save money it’s an option for sure I didn’t run it for more than 3 months before I swapped to t4 so I can’t tell you how good the quality of it is. The holsets are tried and true turbos that just works when your setup is on point just like any other turbo. FP/Xona turbos are top of the line quality and they have long supported our platform. The zero is no joke of a turbo either you may or may not gain by swapping to it. Look at the lbs/min a turbo is capable and then look at your realistic goals. A lot of it has to do with putting the correct combo together to make everything work in sync. As far as back pressure or any of that goes you need to be close to maxing the turbo before you see any negative effects. I ran as high as 49.8 psi on my hx40 with data logs to prove didn’t gain anything 47 was where is stopped making power. I honestly don’t see you having any problem hitting your 400’s up goal on either turbo just make sure your tune is good. Make power with boost not timing doesn’t matter what fuel you’re using.
Another good video from Robert himself quite informational.
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Aren't the .82 housing based off the newer PTE housing with better quality casting and design??



The red would be a downgrade to a hx40. I was just looking at the zero because they are going for $600 off and would be the highest flowing bolt on available.
I would consider the hx40 with a bolt-on housing to be a pretty crappy combo but I've never ran one. I would not consider the red to be a downgrade. The zero is an 800hp capable turbo and my guess is you'll see full-boost close to 5.5-6k. That's not really a turbo you should be running if you want 4-450hp.
 
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I would consider the hx40 with a bolt-on housing to be a pretty crappy combo but I've never ran one. I would not consider the red to be a downgrade. The zero is an 800hp capable turbo and my guess is you'll see full-boost close to 5.5-6k. That's not really a turbo you should be running if you want 4-450hp.
I somewhat agree with this, however having room to grow is nice. Ive ran a bolt on hx40 in the .55 housing on mu 2g and maxed out pump gas around 28psi. At 21psi on that small housing I made 400whp on english racings dynojet.

there are definately turbos that will spool quicker and still make 400-450, but if you want room to grow and dont want to buy another turbo, I dont see anythinng wrong with buying something a little bigger if you can deal with the slight spool trade off...

also, turbos that spool at 5k are easier on your drive train when the tq hit comes
 
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"I've never ran one, but it's a crappy combo". Come the f*** on.

Yeah, the .55 might cripple the 40, but it'll still make 400 all day on it. I'm sure the zero will too, but it's also $1000 more.

A red is 100% a downgrade from a 40. Even if the make the same power the hx40 will last longer, but the 40 is a hotside change away from 7-800hp in my experience.

I ran an he351 for a long time, it's basically an hx35/40 hybrid in a .63 t3 housing. Maybe a little better than a bep bolt on hx40, but pretty equivalent imo. My he351 went 9.80@144 in a 3200# car on a basic setup, a soft tune, and a used up motor - The day after I finished drag week. Nate/Zero went 6 tenths quicker in a pretty well all out auto drag car with nitrous, that is much lighter, lives in a box, and blows the thing up every other pass doing it. The zero won't make that much more power on a equilent setup than a hx40.
 
There is one more option for a bolt on turbine housing for the hx40 that will give it more room up top to breathe. The FP31 turbine housing. The problem is finding one by itself nowadays. From what I’ve read it’s .69 a/r and will have to be machined to fit the 40 turbine wheel. Morrison Fab makes a o2 housing that can utilize the stock route exhaust. So there is some cost involved. There are no known numbers from that setup that I can find. It’s what I’m using but the motor is not in yet.
My setup:
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Comparison between the FP31 .69 housing and the hx40 BEP .70 T3 housing. The BEP is huge compared to the FP!
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FP volute
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BEP .70 volute
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With all that said if you haven’t maxed out what you currently have you should wait and see how you like it before changing anything.
 
There is one more option for a bolt on turbine housing for the hx40 that will give it more room up top to breathe. The FP31 turbine housing. The problem is finding one by itself nowadays. From what I’ve read it’s .69 a/r and will have to be machined to fit the 40 turbine wheel. Morrison Fab makes a o2 housing that can utilize the stock route exhaust. So there is some cost involved. There are no known numbers from that setup that I can find. It’s what I’m using but the motor is not in yet.
My setup:
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Comparison between the FP31 .69 housing and the hx40 BEP .70 T3 housing. The BEP is huge compared to the FP!
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FP volute
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BEP .70 volute
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With all that said if you haven’t maxed out what you currently have you should wait and see how you like it before changing anything.
I'd love to find a fp housing for my holset. They are by far the best bolt on housing.

My car just doesn't seem to want to make power running pump gas and 9:1 compression. I'm no tuning expert and I'm sure there's still some more potential in it. The last time I was at the track my holset let go most likely from heat and or back pressure, which is why I was considering the .82 housing.
 
What do you mean by let go? I just went through your profile to get an idea on your setup and it’s a solid foundation for your goal. I loved my Evo 3 I.m and dollar for dollar I think it’s one of the best we can run. I’ve also tuned a friends car on those dks 272s that car rips same compression ratio. I see you are only 1 hour from efispecialties in fredricksberg. He’s been my tuner since 2017 pay the $400 and let him dyno tune it and I’m pretty confident you will hit your goal no problem.
 
I've never ran one, but it's a crappy combo". Come the f*** on.

Yeah, the .55 might cripple the 40,
Here comes White Shit Speed guy contradicting himself within one sentence. Incredible. And let me ask you a question: Have you personally ran a new FP Red? If not, then let's apply the same logic and just say stfu because you haven't personally ran one.
 
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I'd love to find a fp housing for my holset. They are by far the best bolt on housing.

My car just doesn't seem to want to make power running pump gas and 9:1 compression. I'm no tuning expert and I'm sure there's still some more potential in it. The last time I was at the track my holset let go most likely from heat and or back pressure, which is why I was considering the .82 housing.
Yeah, that's exactly why I said it was a crappy combo. Go search around and you'll see lots of people blow up their holsets with that combo. @1990TSIAWDTALON blew up two just by himself. Ask him.
 
True statement. In my experience, the small valute of a .55 BEP housing for the DSM flange was just too much blow torch on the compressor shafts and they want to snap when they are red hot. I went to a .70 housing and I also have a .82 in a T3 flange. I like the T3 much better because I don't like toasting turbo's out in front of somebody, causing a fog that can't be seen through. ROFL
With the T3 setup, the valute is bigger and easier on the turbos components. I still have a few "carnage" pieces laying around to remind me of what happened.
The HX40 will come in about 47-4800 on my car and it is laggy but hits hella hard and is all I need. I may have to run the NOS to get up on my converter but then the turbo lights and she is a dam good running car.
 
Here comes White Shit Speed guy contradicting himself within one sentence. Incredible. And let me ask you a question: Have you personally ran a new FP Red? If not, then let's apply the same logic and just say stfu because you haven't personally ran one.

Come again? I'm not quite sure how I contradicted my self. I said crippled, not killed. It'll make 600 not 70-800. Yeah the bolt on hurts the power capabilities, but it's still a bolt on turbo that will make 600+ and last forever, ( i think it was badman21 that made like 680 on the .55 housing) The red probably won't make 600, and will come apart trying.

While I have not ran ran a red, I've run many mhi turbos, and they all share the same thing, tiny shaft, tiny thrust bearing, and a tiny exhaust housing ect. I do have some pretty close experience with an FP red, one in an evo, and one in 1g that was a pretty well full on race car (dogbox, 3kgt rear, slicks, lightweight, ect.) Both of them ended up on the trailer afterward, I even have a video of the race car 1g.
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Not sure, but that looks like me showing him my tail lights. Granted, my car has my vgt setup on it now, but it runs about like the holset did. And the car I raced wasn't even a bolt on Red, it's an evo 9 red with a custom manifold to make it fit.


Blowing up holsets - that's operator error. If you only knew how many thousands of pulls/passes my car made on the he with over 100psi of exhaust pressure, wastegate clamped shut, all in. If your egt's are hot enough to hurt an HX then it's also hurting exhaust valves too. If it's that hard on pump gas it's time for a real inter-cooler and better tuning methods.

Regardless, we are getting off topic here the OP's goals are this "Goals are 400-450hp on pump gas 2.0 and 9:1 compression if its possible, if not 450-475hp on e85." A bolt on HX40 will meet his goals, as a couple people have allready shown. On E85 it will way exceed his goal. To me spending $1500 on a turbo that might make more power is foolish when he already has a setup that will meet his goal. I'd spend that money on other things. If the goal will change to more power, then put it towards the t3 stuff. As I and many others have shown a t3 HX40 will run right with anything else in that size range, until you are ready to spend big money on the rest of the setup, and that is where this discussion usually heads. Everyone starts comparing some baller boutique turbo car like noonen's or Nates to some junkyard HX build,and the end result is the invariable (holset is junk).
 
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It wasn't operator error that broke MY Holset shaft Kurt, it was just to much heat in one little hole. Justin and I talked a lot about it (and the tune), as my internals all looked great, thrust surfaces perfect. He told me that whatever I was doing to oil it, it was spot on from looking at the insides. Once I moved away from the DSM flange (or out of the Bullseye Fab .55 housing, like Justin and I discussed), my issues went away. I do love my HX40, it treats me well. :thumb:
 
Come again? I'm quite sure how I contradicted my self.
That's kinda the problem.
but it's still a bolt on turbo that will make 600+ and last forever
Except for the people that blow them up LIKE THE PERSON WHO STARTED THIS THREAD.
It'll make 600 not 70-800
He asked for a turbo to make 4-475.
While I have not ran ran a red
I know.
A bolt on HX40 will meet his goals, as a couple people have allready shown
Every single turbo mentioned in this thread will meet the OP's goals. A bolt-on hx35 would meet them. An Fp Green would meet them.
Everyone starts comparing some baller boutique turbo car like noonen's or Nates to some junkyard HX build,and the end result is the invariable (holset is junk).
Yet you cite some dude who supposedly made 680hp on a 2.3L with 0.55 housing as if it's some goal that the OP is going to obtain. "Don't quote Tom Noonen's 8.8 150mph car cuz that would dispel my notion that FP turbos don't last a long time or perform well"
 
Every single turbo mentioned in this thread will meet the OP's goals. A bolt-on hx35 would meet them. An Fp Green would meet them.

That was the most interesting thing to me about this thread from the start. OP is looking for 400 on pump - 475 on E85 but talking about turbos capable of 600-700 airflow wise. Puts the whole discussion in contradiction
 
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