1G Flywheel thickness

[Mech Addict]

Just a thought, but there are no shims between the clutch mc and firewall, right? Slack in the clevis & yoke to clutch shaft arm? I'm being lazy, but this is an OEM mc, yes? Looking for any reason that geometry is off. Certainly doesn't seem like your fork is out of position. Your fwd slave is much easier to bleed than a awd (Why; I'll never understand), but a speed bleeder may help ensure no air is robbing any of the pedal travel. There are also ways to pressure push from the reservoir or vacuum extract during bleeding, in addition to the pedal-push basic method. Just thinking out loud.

 

[pauleyman]

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/clutch-basic-101-a-clutch-basics-thread-for-everybody.459908/

Read this. Your problem likely lies in the pedal assembly or the master and slave. Pay attention to what i wrote about slave bores. May apply yo you.

 

[1990dsmkid]

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/clutch-basic-101-a-clutch-basics-thread-for-everybody.459908/

Read this. Your problem likely lies in the pedal assembly or the master and slave. Pay attention to what i wrote about slave bores. May apply yo you.

So with the different bores do you really think it would make that much of a difference? I also saw you say you wont use shim. Well if you resurface enough times wont that get you far enough away that even with everything else new you would need to shim to get back where it needs to be? Just curious. I did had my pedal assembly apart and from what i could see and feel it did not look wore out so i put it back together and tightened it back down. Im just at my ends because i always had threads to adjust with. Now for some reason i dont. Maybe something is bad or wore and im just not catching it thinking its fine

 

[pauleyman]

So with the different bores do you really think it would make that much of a difference?

its simple geometey. Wouldnt take much to calculate the volume difference and translate that to a horizontal travel distance.

I also saw you say you wont use shim. Well if you resurface enough times wont that get you far enough away that even with everything else new you would need to shim to get back where it needs to be? Just curious.

i probably need to edit that. I might shim but i made the statement because in my opinion if you need to shim you've probably machined too much and need to replace the flywheel. A new flywheel, the friction surface is above the space in between the pads. Most flywheels I see have been machined below if not way below the surface betqeen the pads

I did had my pedal assembly apart and from what i could see and feel it did not look wore out so i put it back together and tightened it back down. Im just at my ends because i always had threads to adjust with. Now for some reason i dont. Maybe something is bad or wore and im just not catching it thinking its fine

You just visually inspected? Thats not enough. You jave to grab the parts and try to move them relative to one another. If they move its bad.

 

[1990dsmkid]

its simple geometey. Wouldnt take much to calculate the volume difference and translate that to a horizontal travel distance.

i probably need to edit that. I might shim but i made the statement because in my opinion if you need to shim you've probably machined too much and need to replace the flywheel. A new flywheel, the friction surface is above the space in between the pads. Most flywheels I see have been machined below if not way below the surface betqeen the pads

You just visually inspected? Thats not enough. You jave to grab the parts and try to move them relative to one another. If they move its bad.

I did move the parts. I really didnt notice anything. Still seemed tight to me. I could be wrong. I shouldnt have just welded it but i was in a rush.

 

[pauleyman]

I did move the parts. I really didnt notice anything. Still seemed tight to me. I could be wrong. I shouldnt have just welded it but i was in a rush.

I usually grab the pedal itself and my other hand the clevis lever
The one with the odd shaped hole. If these two parts move relative to each other even a little bit thats a problem. A small bit of angular movement translates to quite a bit more on the other end where the clevis bolts to the master rod. Again the geometry shows just a few degrees can translate to 1/4 even 1/2" or more of tangential movement on the other side.

 

[1990dsmkid]

I usually grab the pedal itself and my other hand the clevis lever
The one with the odd shaped hole. If these two parts move relative to each other even a little bit thats a problem. A small bit of angular movement translates to quite a bit more on the other end where the clevis bolts to the master rod. Again the geometry shows just a few degrees can translate to 1/4 even 1/2" or more of tangential movement on the other side.

Ill have to give this a try and see what it does

 

[Mech Addict]

I agree completely with Pauleyman. I found I can grab my pedal and move it toward the driver almost an inch. When I push down on to disengage the clutch, it returns to "normal". So nearly an inch of "slop" but it doesn't wiggle when mounted in the car. When I removed the entire pedal assembly and purchased a fresh shaft lever (the short one that the clevis goes through), I found just a hint of play. Really nothing that I would have thought would be of consequence. It was the double-d rod end that was just shiny-clearanced enough to move just a little. Why they didn't use a hex or spline at this connection, well..., we'd all like to know.
I had already purchased new oem (plastic) bushings for the pedal shaft (even though the old ones seemed fine with 97k mi). Didn't want to wait for bronze and take to a welder. This is why I went with the 2g rod swap. It corrects the issue by compensating for that tiny bit of slack. I don't worry that the pedal shaft flats are going to quickly wear to a circle or anything, and if I start running out of threads on the 2g rod, well, then it will be time to weld.

 

[pauleyman]

I agree completely with Pauleyman. I found I can grab my pedal and move it toward the driver almost an inch. When I push down on to disengage the clutch, it returns to "normal". So nearly an inch of "slop" but it doesn't wiggle when mounted in the car. When I removed the entire pedal assembly and purchased a fresh shaft lever (the short one that the clevis goes through), I found just a hint of play. Really nothing that I would have thought would be of consequence. It was the double-d rod end that was just shiny-clearanced enough to move just a little. Why they didn't use a hex or spline at this connection, well..., we'd all like to know.
I had already purchased new oem (plastic) bushings for the pedal shaft (even though the old ones seemed fine with 97k mi). Didn't want to wait for bronze and take to a welder. This is why I went with the 2g rod swap. It corrects the issue by compensating for that tiny bit of slack. I don't worry that the pedal shaft flats are going to quickly wear to a circle or anything, and if I start running out of threads on the 2g rod, well, then it will be time to weld.

As long as you dont bottom out the master or over adjust this is a good idea. I did the same thing a long time ago by welding a nut onto the clevis bracket. On hindsight it was kind of a pain because even being careful and threading a rod through the bracket and nut the threads didnt completely align and i had to run a tap through. Might be better to weld a piece of scrap with a hole and then tap it after the weld. Anyway it worked until i fixed it permanently.

 

[XC92]

I agree completely with Pauleyman. I found I can grab my pedal and move it toward the driver almost an inch. When I push down on to disengage the clutch, it returns to "normal". So nearly an inch of "slop" but it doesn't wiggle when mounted in the car. When I removed the entire pedal assembly and purchased a fresh shaft lever (the short one that the clevis goes through), I found just a hint of play. Really nothing that I would have thought would be of consequence. It was the double-d rod end that was just shiny-clearanced enough to move just a little. Why they didn't use a hex or spline at this connection, well..., we'd all like to know.
I had already purchased new oem (plastic) bushings for the pedal shaft (even though the old ones seemed fine with 97k mi). Didn't want to wait for bronze and take to a welder. This is why I went with the 2g rod swap. It corrects the issue by compensating for that tiny bit of slack. I don't worry that the pedal shaft flats are going to quickly wear to a circle or anything, and if I start running out of threads on the 2g rod, well, then it will be time to weld.

More or less my situation until I temporarily fixed it by manually pushing the pedal as far as it would go before the shaft started moving, then tightened the bolt that connects the shaft to the lever. It's held up for nearly a year and hundreds of miles (only reason I haven't driven more on it was because I didn't want to put too many miles on it until I rebuilt the trans, which then took most of the summer).

But come spring I'm taking the whole assembly out to see what's going on and needs to be fixed properly, if the MC needs to be rebuilt or replaced, anything else going on down there, etc. I'm actually surprised that my "fix" has held up so far, but it's not a real solution, of course.

I was though recently pleasantly surprised to find that cruise control is still working fine. Before the car had sat for several years it hadn't worked, and I thought it was just one of those parts that die eventually. But it turned out that it was just the switch that prevents the car from starting without first pressing down on the clutch pedal, to avoid sudden lurching if it's in gear.

Someone, not me, thus almost certainly a mechanic, years ago, had disconnected it for who knows what reason. Turns out that this switch--or another one at the other end of the pedal travel that had also been disconnected--enables the cruise control. I know that some people delete their cruise, but I like it for long highway drives.

Anyway, it's endless fixes with these cars. Fix on thing and another gremlin turns up.

 

[Mech Addict]

The cruise only depends on the pedal stop switch, which must make contact when the pedal is up. The one on the floor is for start, though you can remove it completely and the car starts fine. My pedal was missing the small rubber bumper that presses the cruise one. Curiously, the button of the switch fits right through the hole in the pedal boss that holds the rubber. Put the rubber back, and it came to life. A miss-adjustment would also likely cause cruise n/f.