filled blocks

[dSmgs-T]

looking at a long block right now for gvr4. its a 2.0 custom R&R aluminum rod, arias 10:1 pistons, fox lake head, copper o-rings, MLS hg with kelfords yada yada yada. the block is HALF filled (cement) and the water pump is blocked with a jays racing electric water pump.

im curious as to what it would be like for a weekend warrior/drag car. not that familiar with filling a block, i know it strengthens it a lot. what will it do for drive abitly wise?? the long block is for a pretty good price, and its brand spanking new.

any insight is greatly appreciated. kind of want to jump on this soon!

edit: goals for my gvr4 are 10's with my driving and 650-700+awhp in my sleeper grocery getter.

 

[donniekak]

You don't need a filled block for those goals. Why would someone only half fill it? I could only imagine a moderate strength increase, and non streetable cooling.

 

[dSmgs-T]

thats not what i asked exactly.... i know i dont need it. its already done! i want to know what it does for driving around down etc...

 

[JacksonAuto]

If it's cement and not a fill made specifically for engines then walk away from it.

To answer your question, the sacrifice in drivability will depend on how far the water jacket is filled. If it's less than half you'll be fine since most of the heat is in the head anyway. I have a street car with a short-filled block with no overheating problems. You will need to make sure your cooling system is running at peak efficiency.

Side note- You may want to think twice about aluminum rods on the street.

 

[dSmgs-T]

he says its half filled. i would have to ask him to go into more detail with it. the whole thing is an awesome deal, i just dont think its worth the possible aggravation with the block being filled anymore.

i know too many people running around in aluminum rod motors. they drive their cars way more than what i plan on driving mine too. i am pretty much set on an aluminum motor this go around. fast revving to the moon MONSTER.

 

[turboglenn]

well, if the block is filled you won't have a cooling system, or being "half filled" it probably still won't cool right so you'll probably constantly over heat, filling a block is good for one thing... single passes down the 1320 and shutting down

 

[BoredDSM]

Sounds interesting but streetabilit would be in huge question. I know they make a cemen with iron particles specifically meant to fill blocks. A few people on another forum used them and showed it on there build thread.

HardBlok Water Jacket Filler - Increase Horsepower For High Performance Engines.

That was the company they went too and I believe that is what shep uses in his own block at one point.

I hear a lot of people saying that some FP5r cams are very aggressive and that the 280s are even more agressive and have to be clayed to check for valve kissing. Now with aluminum rods some have suspected that running cams that aggressive cannot be accurately checked for piston and valve clearance because the aluminum will expand more. Now with a cemented block the rods would expand even more and valve clearance would now be in large question. This is in no way proven but I did read it in another thread and thought I would bring it to your attention. You would be one of the few who could provide some information on it considering most people who run it don't want to share or just dont know.

 

[TSIfreek]

I would not use any kind of a filled block or aluminum rods for the street.

 

[BoredDSM]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl.../311352-contructive-info-aluminum-rods-5.html

A thread I made ages ago when I was planning my build that now got pushed back another year . But most will agree that straight aluminum rods nowadays are pretty easy to daily for a street car. It is when you mix the filled block into the equation that makes me hesitant.

 

[TSimage]

Can people quit posting in these threads offering their "guesses" on what such a build entails. When you use the phrases "I think" etc your post should be passed up because as we know, the phrase "I think" etc is code for "I don't know I am talking about but I need to up my post count..."


To the OP, I saw that setup, on GVR4 and its nice but if you want more street use I would shy away from filled blocks. We have proven time and time again that properly maintained AL rod motors have no issues on the street. Half filled blocks normally can be driven with out too many issues for short periods of time but if you plan on doing pulls AND then driving for any sort of distance, you will have some issues.

Sounds interesting but streetabilit would be in huge question. I know they make a cemen with iron particles specifically meant to fill blocks. A few people on another forum used them and showed it on there build thread.

HardBlok Water Jacket Filler - Increase Horsepower For High Performance Engines.

That was the company they went too and I believe that is what shep uses in his own block at one point.

I hear a lot of people saying that some FP5r cams are very aggressive and that the 280s are even more agressive and have to be clayed to check for valve kissing. Now with aluminum rods some have suspected that running cams that aggressive cannot be accurately checked for piston and valve clearance because the aluminum will expand more. Now with a cemented block the rods would expand even more and valve clearance would now be in large question. This is in no way proven but I did read it in another thread and thought I would bring it to your attention. You would be one of the few who could provide some information on it considering most people who run it don't want to share or just dont know.

We have personally ran into this issue and even lost a motor. There is honestly no reason to run more than a Kelford 272 (slightly bigger than most 280s) on the street. The main issue is that the Aluminum rods expand once heated, because of this you lose clearance yet when motors are clayed, they are clayed closed. I haven't heard much about a specific amount you should have as far as clearance safety goes. Many alleviate this by running pistons with custom reliefs or lower compression for the deeper tops. Further still your risk is increased from using over sized valves. People have made beyond the OPs goals with even less. That is a 100% race setup, I wouldn't risk driving that setup on the street.

 

[dSmgs-T]

the more i research, the more i lean towards not getting it. ill probably just end up building a regular 2.0 aluminum rod myself.

 

[BoredDSM]

We have personally ran into this issue and even lost a motor. There is honestly no reason to run more than a Kelford 272 (slightly bigger than most 280s) on the street. The main issue is that the Aluminum rods expand once heated, because of this you lose clearance yet when motors are clayed, they are clayed closed. I haven't heard much about a specific amount you should have as far as clearance safety goes. Many alleviate this by running pistons with custom reliefs or lower compression for the deeper tops. Further still your risk is increased from using over sized valves. People have made beyond the OPs goals with even less. That is a 100% race setup, I wouldn't risk driving that setup on the street.

That is exactly what I was referring to. He never stated how aggressive his cams were so I pointed out that he should be aware that there are clearance issues when running really agressive cams with aluminum rods that expand more and have less clearance for the valves that cannot be detected until the motor is warmed up but by that point it would be to late.

 

[TurboAnything]

I talked long and hard with the guys from R&R before buying my rods. They told me that rod stretch is a myth only the rod bolts stretch that is why i went with L19 rod bolts.

Now the filled block is something i have thought hard about too and decided against but only because i want to drive on the street daily if i need to.

 

[blackrosenova40]

I think a good way to verify valve clearance would be to measure the center of the small end and the biig end, then heat the rod up in an oven, then meausre the small end to big end again, then you have a comparison to add to your normal required valve clearance.

 

[nitrouskris]

I know of cars "i have been it" that are half filled and do run on the street "not everyday". they use evans cooling and dont have a problem.