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ECMlink FIC 1800cc low z tuning

DarkKnight86

Proven Member
36
8
Sep 25, 2016
Mansfield, Texas
Hello everyone. I have swapped in some FIC 1800cc low z injectors because I got tired of trying to tune my RC 1200cc injectors. I followed jaffro video on getting my calculations for my injector battery ms settings. I am running E85 and have my global set at -66.4 and deadtime around 350ms. I was trying to see if anyone is running the FIC 1800cc low z and what are your settings for global and deadtime for me to gauge and see. I'm at work right now and don't really remember my settings. I will share a log when I get home.
 

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
9,881
5,758
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
See my post for those injectors. They are close to the bottom of the thread. I used to run a set of low z injectors but they didn't transition well from low to high pulse widths so I switched to Hi Z units. I don't know if I have a tune with them in it but I will look so maybe I can help with your global and Dt's.
The fuel calculator gives an estimate of -64.3 Global and your dead time is what I would start with and play with as the car runs to see what it likes. Also know that if you need to, you can put in a negative number for dead times. I use it on my Hi Z 2150's, just FYI.

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Spleen8urLSX

5+ Year Contributor
325
216
Dec 26, 2017
Elyria, Ohio
The FIC low z 1800s are a very hard injector to get to work “good”. Fine for a race car or something street driven where the user doesn’t care about good drivability, but many opt for a high z injector when they need something that size for that reason.
 

steve

DSM Wiseman
15,001
1,802
Feb 3, 2002
Boulder, Colorado
If you use the Injector Battery voltage direct access map you don't need to put anything in the global deadtime box. If you do the two are summed for the final deadtime value.
 

DarkKnight86

Proven Member
36
8
Sep 25, 2016
Mansfield, Texas
Here is what I have my injector battery set at after doing the calculation in an excel sheet.
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My global is at -64.1 and deadtime I've tried between 310-375 and I can't get my airflow per rev down at all. Here is my data sheet:
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llxkevinxll

10+ Year Contributor
489
231
Jan 29, 2012
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Here is what I have my injector battery set at after doing the calculation in an excel sheet.
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My global is at -64.1 and deadtime I've tried between 310-375 and I can't get my airflow per rev down at all. Here is my data sheet:
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Like Steve said above. When you translate the dead times vs voltage from the FIC data sheet into ecmlink, global deadtime should be set to zero. Global and voltage compensated dead times are additive and you have the luxury of having the dead times handed to you thus not needing the global setting. 0 global dead time and try again.
 

steve

DSM Wiseman
15,001
1,802
Feb 3, 2002
Boulder, Colorado
My global is at -64.1 and deadtime I've tried between 310-375 and I can't get my airflow per rev down at all. Here is my data sheet:

Global fuel and deadtime don't change airflow per rev. What are you using for measuring airflow, MAF or SD? From your vehicle profile it's a GM 3inch MAF, is it connected via ECMTuning's cable or a MAFT?
 

DarkKnight86

Proven Member
36
8
Sep 25, 2016
Mansfield, Texas
Yes I'm running a 3 inch gm maf, running ecmlink cable via ecmlink v3. I messed with it today and zeroed out my global deadtime. My global fuel is still at -64.1. I am running e85. I'm about to just buy a set of 2150cc high z and sell these 1800cc low z.
 

llxkevinxll

10+ Year Contributor
489
231
Jan 29, 2012
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Yes I'm running a 3 inch gm maf, running ecmlink cable via ecmlink v3. I messed with it today and zeroed out my global deadtime. My global fuel is still at -64.1. I am running e85. I'm about to just buy a set of 2150cc high z and sell these 1800cc low z.
What Steve is getting at is fixing your airflow per rev at idle is going to be done using the MAF sliders. Not dead time. If you have the budget you are going to be happier with the High z stuff anyway. But this issue can be solved with what you have.

Also. If you do choose the High Z, an HY35 on E85 isn't going to get near maxing out even 1650s. I run an Hx35 on 1650s and haven't even seen 70% duty on E75 and 52 lb/min. 2150s obviously have more room to grow if desired. Ecmlink has a page detailing some considerations for the 2150s and wiring. Linked here. Someone else will have to chime in if the 2150s still require a connector swap.
 

95_gsx_2g

Supporting VIP
169
41
Apr 26, 2010
washington, Pennsylvania
Yes I'm running a 3 inch gm maf, running ecmlink cable via ecmlink v3. I messed with it today and zeroed out my global deadtime. My global fuel is still at -64.1. I am running e85. I'm about to just buy a set of 2150cc high z and sell these 1800cc low z.

Let me know if you get those running correctly as im curious. Some people say you need a fuel injector clinic driver box to run low resistance injectors that big if you can find one. I run the 1450cc blue max low z and I like them a bunch more then when I had 1100cc fuel injector clinic high resistance injectors. My dsm also seems to like them alot more overall.
 

Spleen8urLSX

5+ Year Contributor
325
216
Dec 26, 2017
Elyria, Ohio
Let me know if you get those running correctly as im curious. Some people say you need a fuel injector clinic driver box to run low resistance injectors that big if you can find one. I run the 1450cc blue max low z and I like them a bunch more then when I had 1100cc fuel injector clinic high resistance injectors. My dsm also seems to like them alot more overall.
You have your terminology a bit backwards. Low impedance(z)=high resistance=needs resistor box, high impedance(z)=low resistance=no resistor box.

But to add to this I had low z 1450’s at one point and while they got the job done the drivability sucked no matter what we did aside from changing the global and dead time, change global and dead time to where idle and cruise were good the afr’s were uncontrollable at wot. Switched to high z 1150s (now high z 2200s) and smooth as butter. I’ve seen the same out of many low z injectors over 1000cc’s and have heard the driver box corrects it but for the cost of the box it made more sense to switch to high z injectors.
 

95_gsx_2g

Supporting VIP
169
41
Apr 26, 2010
washington, Pennsylvania
You have your terminology a bit backwards. Low impedance(z)=high resistance=needs resistor box, high impedance(z)=low resistance=no resistor box.

But to add to this I had low z 1450’s at one point and while they got the job done the drivability sucked no matter what we did aside from changing the global and dead time, change global and dead time to where idle and cruise were good the afr’s were uncontrollable at wot. Switched to high z 1150s (now high z 2200s) and smooth as butter. I’ve seen the same out of many low z injectors over 1000cc’s and have heard the driver box corrects it but for the cost of the box it made more sense to switch to high z injectors.

Actually I dont low impedance are peak and hold which require a resistor or driver so they don't overheat. As where high resistance are saturated and do not. Low resistance are faster but run a tad hotter then high resistance. Ya I've heard the same but I had tuning issues and cold start problems on high resistance. Our cars were actually designed for low resistance injectors even though lots go high. starts and drives like stock with them with perfect cold start warm up idle and wot fuel trims doing exactly as expected. Im also professionaly tuned by a guy who specializes in the Dsm platform and ecmlink.
 

llxkevinxll

10+ Year Contributor
489
231
Jan 29, 2012
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
You have your terminology a bit backwards. Low impedance(z)=high resistance=needs resistor box, high impedance(z)=low resistance=no resistor box.

To be clear, resistance and impedance are not opposites. Resistance is the measurement of the purely resistive portions of a circuit. Impedance describes the resistive + reactance. Injectors have impedance as they are not just resistors. They have inductance in the coils for example. Thus, impedance.

For the curious, FIC has a whole write up on this type of stuff on their site. LINK
 

95_gsx_2g

Supporting VIP
169
41
Apr 26, 2010
washington, Pennsylvania
Like Steve said above. When you translate the dead times vs voltage from the FIC data sheet into ecmlink, global deadtime should be set to zero. Global and voltage compensated dead times are additive and you have the luxury of having the dead times handed to you thus not needing the global setting. 0 global dead time and try again.

Not disagreeing here but there is other ways that global deadtime can still come in handy when used with injector latency to further fine tune the car.
 

llxkevinxll

10+ Year Contributor
489
231
Jan 29, 2012
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Low resistance are faster but run a tad hotter then high resistance.
But the entire reason the High-Zs work better at large flow and low DCs is because their fundamental design are much faster to translate the signaling from the ECU and make the mechanical action of opening and then closing the injector.
 
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95_gsx_2g

Supporting VIP
169
41
Apr 26, 2010
washington, Pennsylvania
To be clear, resistance and impedance are not opposites. Resistance is the measurement of the purely resistive portions of a circuit. Impedance describes the resistive + reactance. Injectors have impedance as they are not just resistors. They have inductance in the coils for example. Thus, impedance.

For the curious, FIC has a whole write up on this type of stuff on their site. LINK

Correct I was just saying cause its usually referred to as low resistance/impedance and high resistance/impedance. Yes and the ohms are relatively low on peak and hold and high on saturated. I do like how the peak and hold snap open and closed faster but again just a preference.
 

llxkevinxll

10+ Year Contributor
489
231
Jan 29, 2012
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
I do like how the peak and hold snap open and closed faster but again just a preference.

"A saturated signal is a simple signal used to operate high impedance injectors. A single intensity signal is sent to a fuel injector which causes the valve to open and remain open until the signal has ended. The new technology used in the design and construction of today’s high impedance injectors allows much larger flow rates, much better response times, and much more predictable low pulse width operation than previous designs – all without overheating. This means that low impedance injectors are no longer the peak of performance when considering fuel injectors." - FIC FAQ linked above.
 

95_gsx_2g

Supporting VIP
169
41
Apr 26, 2010
washington, Pennsylvania
But the entire reason the High-Zs work better at large flow and low DCs is because their fundamental design are much faster to translate the signaling from the ECU and make the mechanical action of opening and then closing the injector.

See ive read the complete opposite of what your saying and always been under the intention peak and hold were faster. I can understand your advantage point over peak and hold from a certain standpoint. The piezo electric part is interesting I did not know that with saturated. Im sure its a not a big difference in operating speed reguardless. Im sure its really down to the owners preference along with the fuel type tuning software etc.
 

llxkevinxll

10+ Year Contributor
489
231
Jan 29, 2012
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
See ive read the complete opposite of what your saying and always been under the intention peak and hold were faster. I can understand your advantage point over peak and hold from a certain standpoint. The piezo electric part is interesting I did not know that with saturated. Im sure its a not a big difference in operating speed reguardless. Im sure its really down to the owners preference along with the fuel type tuning software etc.
I removed the piezo point. I thought they were but I can't find anything on Bosch's site indicating as such. They may not be. The Bosch piezos I can find are DI/Diesel stuff for the super high fuel pressure world.
 

DarkKnight86

Proven Member
36
8
Sep 25, 2016
Mansfield, Texas
With my 3 inch gm maf, I idle around 700-800hz once the car is up to operating temps. If I adjust the maf comp sliders down, I'm taking fuel and I move them up, I'm adding fuel correct? That is what I get from reading on ecmlink wiki and all of the tutorials that I have read. I know that if I make the changes that it doesn't happen right that second, and after I make changes I also reset my fuel trims after I make changes. My combine FT and and wb factor most of the time show that I'm idling rich combine FT sometimes shows -10.2 and wb factor also shows -2.3. My front o2 doesn't cycle from .20 to .80, it goes from .55 to .80. Maybe I'm having trouble due to a bad front o2 sensor.
 
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