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Facebook's negative impact on car culture and tech info

Posted by Ludachris, Jan 8, 2019

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  1. Doubleot

    Doubleot Proven Member

    1,122
    156
    Joined Mar 15, 2009
    Spanish Fork, Utah
    I've always preferred the forum over Facebook and actually love the information available here for reference to just about any mod or maintenance needed. When I started my build thread I seemed to get quite a bit of flow through and just general positive comments. Seems really bare nowdays, I've also recently realized a lot of people on Facebook dont have a tuners account and they actually prefer Facebook.

    Super weird but I really enjoy updating my thread and sometimes looking back at certain things I've done.

    Keep it up everyone!
     

    Street Build 3K  4

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST
    279.1 whp · 325.3 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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  2. RipperXX

    RipperXX Proven Member

    3,152
    143
    Joined Feb 23, 2003
    Royston, Georgia
    Agree 100% with OP.
     

    Street Build 3K  10  9

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.476 @ 105.48 · 1G DSM
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  3. cbyamd

    cbyamd Proven Member

    70
    1
    Joined Jan 6, 2012
    Nitro, West Virginia
    Alot of good valid point on this thread. But because of this I see my faults also by not being as productive as I can when I'm on tuners. One thing I find difficult on tuners is the search but I haven't used it for along time, I've already trained myself to go to google and search on there with a criteria set to tuners only. But I usually don't have any issue finding the information I need.
    My view on FB is that, it is all drama and junk being thrown around, the only reason I have one is to find stuff for sale due to most of it being local.

    I also want to say Chris, thank you for doing all you can to keep this rolling along with all other member that have done their part. This site will forever be the most helpful site I know.
     

    174  5

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 580  10

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  4. pboglio

    pboglio Proven Member

    1,645
    34
    Joined May 8, 2004
    Palos Heights, Illinois
    I haven't used Facebook much but there is definitely a slowdown in forum usage across the board. I haven't posted much on tuners since I had my 97 GSX sent off to the graveyard back in 2015. Since then, I thought I'd get more involved in evolutionm.net with my EVO X, but that site wasn't exactly my cup of tea and I don't think I have more than 30 posts there. The demographic also is a bit different for EVO X owners vs. the EVO8/9 crowd. I liked Nasioc but I haven't done much with my 2005 STi in 10 years, not really worth posting. Having said that, those (2) sites still seem to have decent traffic.

    My daily driver is a Nissan Juke and I frequent Jukeforums.com quite a bit. That site is a good example of reduced forum traffic over the last 8-9 years, though the smaller membership size and niche market also contributes to that. Although the parts development has improved leaps and bounds since 2010-2011 in terms of turbos, engine builds, transmission upgrades, quality vendors/suppliers, etc., it just seems that overall the discussion level has dropped over the years. I can make a post and it might be days before someone responds. The level of technical discussion is spotty and nowhere near the level of dsmtuners.com, and a lot of times I just lose complete interest in posting. Where Facebook has an advantage is that people will tend to respond immediately to a post, whether it's good or bad, at least it's some level of discussion. I can put together a comprehensive post on the various forums and if I'm waiting a week for a response, I just stop posting altogether. I went a few years not posting much at all out of shear boredom. The way I helped counter this is to do technical posts or builds to keep my motivation up. Sometimes I get good discussion, other times........nothing. It's a self perpetuating deal. After I finish up my current engine & transmission build.......I'll probably go back to not posting much at all since it's not worth my effort. It's tough and at some point it becomes forced to post, the back and forth discussion and vibe isn't the same as it was years ago during the heyday of the online automotive forums. Those days are long gone.

    Facebook has given everyone another avenue to share. The automotive forums are like a party that is beat, everyone is moving to the next party happening somewhere else. It's tough to tell those people to come back because they are enjoying another venue. Some of that might be due to the overly zealous forum moderators, where in contrast facebook is a free for all. Either way, the trend is there. The Juke forums came out with a phone app version, and IMHO it did nothing to the way I post other than making it a little easier to fire off a response while I'm on the go. Basically, not a game changer to keeping the forums alive. That Juke platform itself is dying since they went out of production in 2017 in the US, but still going worldwide, so the forum usage will only drop as members move on.

    Wishing I had my DSM again just for the intelligent banter. This is probably the best automotive forum out there of those that are still active.
     
    pboglio

    807  0

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  5. FAQGSX222

    FAQGSX222 Supporting Member

    151
    67
    Joined Jul 26, 2015
    Louisville, Tennessee
    I can see why people have slowly gravitated away from forums but I myself enjoy the forums. I’ve been out of the DSM world for a decade or so and after buying my current car I had no hesitation of where I was headed to be apart of the community again. That being said, I felt a little thrown back when I saw how a lot of the threads had negative replies to them. I agree most are questions that have been asked a million times so a majority of the questions were met with what seemed to be a less than greeting response. I think that searches should be used more, heck it goes for me as well, but I’d be willing to bet that the repeated threads are from people that are just excited to be able to interact with someone that shares the same interests as themselves. I understand there’s a forum for that type of interaction but most of the time they have a problem so that’s their chance to do both get answers and socialize at once. When someone finds something they had a great experience with what do they do? Tell a friend how great it was and the same for a bad experience. Facebook is a “Walmart” online where it’s just easier to “buy” information no matter how good/bad it is so when smaller site that has higher quality information it has to work harder to get the “consumer” to come back repeatedly. Take that as just a dumb guys opinion but every business model is very similar to that. As for me, I’m here everyday multiple times and will never leave.
     

    Street Build 2K  10

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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    Vegas smith likes this.
  6. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    4,418
    1,904
    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    Well I am on board now, to do what I can to make THIS forum the greeting, comfy forum, unlike some I have had the "opportunity" to join lately, for our other projects. Some are just not fun sites and a Mod has to approve all your posts. Now, I have had to approve or disapprove a few, but hell, we are all here to help so I let 90% go thru and then try to keep this place a fun, but reliable resource. Thats what I consider this place, a VAST KNOWLEDGE resource and there are A LOT of other members that are super helpful and they know who they are (Thank you ALL).
    I hope that after an experience on here, folks think "thats a super helpful site".
    Since I don't do other social media, I have nothing to judge by though.
    I've never had a Google search lead me to a twitter or FB site ever so this is where those can get their "knowledge", then claim to be master mechanics.
     

    Street Build 3K  27

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    425  14

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    417  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 598  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
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    Mattjaye2198 likes this.
  7. FAQGSX222

    FAQGSX222 Supporting Member

    151
    67
    Joined Jul 26, 2015
    Louisville, Tennessee
    This is my go to for everything DSM! I don’t think I’d even try to find another source of info related to my car honestly. I think all forums regardless of the subject are now having to fight against FB. Like someone had said in an earlier reply, FB is just a place to find stuff to buy. Other than that i would never attempt to deal with anything technical related. FB should just be a social gathering which is what it started as but now feels like the mandatory spot for online interactions. Oh well I’ll be more interactive here moving forward with my latest DSM adventures.
     

    Street Build 2K  10

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  8. FourG63 97GST

    FourG63 97GST Proven Member

    1,456
    4
    Joined Jul 21, 2002
    West Palm Beach, Florida
    I like that the forum is still here. I left the DSM market, but cool seeing updates on the platform
     

    522  0

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    13.728 @ 113.660 · 2G DSM
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  9. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

    4,431
    999
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    It's a goddamn pita to share a facebook post on here from my shops page. If there was an easy dsm tuners app to take a picture/video from my phone and post it as easily as on FB it would be nice. 30 seconds while I'm running a machine to make a facebook post. I'd do it here too if it was that easy. Needs some sort of policing or controls to keep idiots from flooding it with junk, or another channel this goes through. but then again, any traffic is good traffic?
     

    Showcar Build 5K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon N/T
    9.805 @ 144.00 · 1G DSM
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  10. Boosted_okie_girl

    Boosted_okie_girl Probationary Member

    3
    4
    Joined Mar 22, 2019
    Mcloud, Oklahoma
    I agree and to be honest if you post your build on Facebook there’s always negativity we’ll why are you doing that or people who just want to talk crap. The threads are a total different world super supportive and encouraging. Facebook is garbage
     

    Street Build 442  8

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  11. pboglio

    pboglio Proven Member

    1,645
    34
    Joined May 8, 2004
    Palos Heights, Illinois
    Based on this thread, I've been looking at the various automotive forums and the online membership participation is down huge. I'd say 2015 or 2016 is when the forum participation took a massive nosedive, probably earlier. When I parted out my Eclipse back in 2016 I was shocked by the lack of traffic on this sight. It had been since 2009-2012 since I was really active, due to my car going down for a transmission/engine issue. Forums were still well frequented up until that point.

    A few examples of typical daily online automotive forum participation:

    Nasioc.com: +230 members/ +1800-2000 total (members + guests)
    Dsmtuners: +30-80 members/ +800-1000 total (members + guests)
    Evolutionm.net: 30-60 members/ +800-1000 total (members + guests)
    DSMTalk: 0-1 members/+400 total (members + guests)
    ECMLink forums: 5-15 members/ +25 total (members_guests)

    These numbers have to be put into context with the actual total members, but it gives a good idea. The drop in membership participation is across the board. I'd say total forum participation is down to 10% of previous levels at their peak.

    Nasioc.com still has some of the highest online presence these days for an automotive forum, with around +230 members logged on regularly and about 2,000 total including members and guests. Not saying they are better, but the number of active posts per day is fairly high given the current forum downtrend. The one obvious fact that can't be denied is that Subaru has a current performance vehicle in production, the 2019 WRX and STi along with the new S209 generating some great buzz. This is no doubt keeping the daily participation rates higher. I would say that the +200 member per day is the "critical mass" number to keeping a forum relevant. Yes, those guys tend to be whiners but at least there is a lot of back and forth discussion, and the technical discussion there has always been higher level IMHO. To contrast that, Evolutionm.net maybe has 30-60 members logged in daily with 1,000 total online including guests. On Evolutionm.net, you get the deep technical content, but also the "bolt-on bros" and their ridiculous newb questions, so it's a bit of a mix. The EVO went out of production in 2015 with the EVO X Final Edition still selling well into 2016, but it's dead now. Since I own an EVO X, that kinda sucks but I'm doing more archive research than active posting. Vendor support is still very good, so at least there's that. I'd say the EVO owners fit the Facebook demographic and their forum is taking a hit pretty hard.

    So, there is clearly some heavy correlation between Facebook's ever increasing popularity and the decline in online forums, but also to a smaller extent the length of time the vehicle platform has been out of production. Those platforms with vehicles still in current production are weathering the storm, those that aren't are in heavy decline. The DSM forums can't change the fact that the last new turbo eclipse left the factory 20 years ago. It's actually amazing the DSM forums have remained this popular for as long as they have.

    I agree that posting pics and videos is just a massive chore on the forums, so that is definitely an area of improvement. If the forums parallel some of the convenience and flash of some of the social media platforms, they can at least be there to accept some of the eventual shift back to forums in the future.
     
    pboglio

    807  0

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  12. BLACK'98DSM

    BLACK'98DSM Proven Member

    917
    292
    Joined Feb 9, 2019
    Hoover, Alabama
    And another thing to consider is that most of the new members don't stay active. Some of them get a question answered and never come back again. :idontknow:
     

    Road Race Build 2K  25

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    350  3

    2012 Murray Explorer Dune
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    264  6

    2009 Troy Bilt Bronco
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles
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    Mattjaye2198 likes this.
  13. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

    3,597
    883
    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California
    If you click on the 3 dots at the top of the post you'll see an Advanced Setting button. Click that and FB will show you a link for your post. Copy that link and paste it in your forum post. This only works with FB videos at the moment, but once we upgrade our forum software you will be able to embed FB posts too.
    That's the one thing an app could definitely help with, allowing the forum to access your camera so that you can select the forum as a place to post the photo or video. Unfortunately, the 10s of thousands of dollars it would cost to build an app just for that purpose, and maintain it to keep it working with the ever changing forum software versions, it just makes it tough. It gets tricky because the app would need to know where to send you to post that photo in the forums, as there are several places you might want to post it here - on FB, it's easy, you can post it on your wall or on a page you manage. Here, you have all the different forums, your vehicle profile, etc. I'm still looking for ways to make this easier without an app, but it isn't an easy fix.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019

    Street Build 8K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 7K  23

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    435.0 whp · 399.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM
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    Mattjaye2198 and 1990TSIAWDTALON like this.
  14. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

    3,597
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    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California
    Turns out the embedding only works for FB videos. If you post the link to the FB video it will embed into the forum post. Once we update our forum software, embedding full posts will work too. I'm working on the plans for that software update this summer.
     

    Street Build 8K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 7K  23

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    435.0 whp · 399.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM
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    Mattjaye2198 likes this.
  15. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

    3,597
    883
    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California
    Testing embedding a FB post:
     

    Street Build 8K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 7K  23

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    435.0 whp · 399.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  16. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

    3,597
    883
    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California
    There you go, just installed a feature that now allows you to embed FB posts here in the forum. Just grab the link for the post (click the 3 dots at the top of the post, click embed, and then click the "advanced settings" link to find the URL for the FB post - copy that URL and paste it into a post, the site will convert that link into an embed).
     

    Street Build 8K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 7K  23

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    435.0 whp · 399.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM
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    Mattjaye2198 likes this.
  17. Mech Addict

    Mech Addict Proven Member

    58
    21
    Joined Jun 9, 2019
    Jackson, Wyoming
    I was a late joiner to Facebook, used it for a few years, and closed my account about a year ago. Even connecting with family and friends became dominated by political rants that seemed to draw me into contrary political rants. It made me look in the mirror, metaphorically, and I didn't like what I saw. One of the things I really like about DSMtuners is that it stays true to a focus on auto enthusiasm, and doesn't go outside this lane too much. No need to be all things to all people. I look forward to working on my car, and then sharing that with the other users (after I apply bandages to my knuckles and pour an adult beverage), and vice versa. Good stuff!
     

    Street Build 284  6

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  18. jed344

    jed344 Proven Member

    558
    23
    Joined Jan 10, 2008
    Waterville, Iowa
    I have met some good knowledgeable people on the facebook pages. I can also say though there is ALOT of bad information being shared on them. I have been helping people on the Facebook dsm page for a long time now, but I am starting to get fed up with giving advice learned first hand by owning and being involved with dsm's for 10+ years just for the person to ignore it by someone who is spouting off. I sometimes will look over someone's log and give advice or my first hand experience. Sadly my questions have now gotten to the realm of a handful of people on Facebook have gotten to. I feel sad for the many years I have been away from the forum and all the changes to my same car I have owned almost 10 years. From stock to logging 50lb/min on stock block to now 1/2 filled wild build. I should start a post about my car and the years of building it to what it is now instead of posting pics on Facebook.
     

    810  26

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  19. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

    3,597
    883
    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California
    Yes, you should. If I were to look you up on Facebook, how would I go about finding all the posts for your car to follow what you've done over the years? I can't, and neither can anyone else - not efficiently at least. Had you been posting all of that here in the forum the whole time, any DSMer who comes across it now and in the future would be able to see your journey.

    Hope to see you do that. ;)
     

    Street Build 8K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 7K  23

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    435.0 whp · 399.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM
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  20. jed344

    jed344 Proven Member

    558
    23
    Joined Jan 10, 2008
    Waterville, Iowa
    I will start to figure I way to do it. A lot of photos and information of 10 years of mistakes and learning the hard way.
     

    810  26

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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    Mattjaye2198 likes this.
  21. FAQGSX222

    FAQGSX222 Supporting Member

    151
    67
    Joined Jul 26, 2015
    Louisville, Tennessee
    I’ve been taking pics and short little videos of my build/refresh of my 98 GSX. Like Ludachris said, it’s almost impossible for you to keep a journal of your build without having to create a page dedicated strictly for the build. I like being able to not only show everyone what I’m doing and my experience, I’m also able to interact with other people who have shared the same experiences and will be able to answer some questions that I may have. I like to think that if all of the members on here would share the forum to people they know in the DSM scene who would hopefully do the same. Word of mouth is one of the greatest tools to help with success.
     

    Street Build 2K  10

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  22. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

    3,597
    883
    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California
    Yeah, even if you had posted it all in a FB group it would be lost with no way for someone to follow through the journey. It's unfortunate because people don't really think about that when they participate on FB and IG. They think they're sharing their DSM updates with people in their network, but the huge downside is that those updates disappear and get buried forever after a day or so.

    A build thread and vehicle profile is easily referenced forever (or as long as the site is online) and easy to read through from beginning to end. Think about it - you can easily link someone to your build thread or your vehicle profile here. What can you link them to on FB for them to get the whole story about your car? FB has made people lazy and less mindful of the real benefits and value of the online automotive community. It's sad.

    Glad to see you're realizing this and are looking to make a change. I wish others would do the same.
     

    Street Build 8K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 7K  23

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    435.0 whp · 399.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM
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    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  23. Boomdeeze

    Boomdeeze Proven Member

    1,627
    270
    Joined Jul 5, 2009
    Independence, Minnesota
    Many of the posts on the FB groups are questions easily answered with a search on here. I always link to a DSMTuners thread to point people this way. Many of the FB users want to be spoon fed while trusting the response of a random person and who knows where he got it from.

    There was a guy on one of them that was bashing my write up for the kiggly mod saying I made a simple two wire mod into a big ordeal. Made me realize the community is changing. I’d be lying if I said things like that haven’t made me consider a Supra haha
     

    Street Build 4K  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.793 @ 128.98 · 2G DSM
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  24. Ludachris

    Ludachris Founder & Zookeeper

    3,597
    883
    Joined Nov 12, 2001
    Roseville, California
    It's not just this community. The same thing is happening in all automotive communities. If you do get a Supra send me a PM and let me know Josh ;)
     

    Street Build 8K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)
    manual · 2G DSM

    Road Race Build 7K  23

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    435.0 whp · 399.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM
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    Boomdeeze likes this.
  25. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Supporting Member

    100
    9
    Joined Nov 20, 2002
    Palm Beach Gard, Florida
    As an old timer it was nice to see the site still up and running after nearly a decade of being out of the game due to life. Funny....guess I am old....I never even considered FB as a place you would reach out to to get educated car information.
     
    mysticj and Ludachris like this.

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