Facebook's negative impact on car culture and tech info

[TSiAWD666]

I can't stand the trend of using Facebook groups as a replacement for forums. Without searchability, long term archiving, and sub-topic organization the signal to noise ratio goes to crap, and complex information is quickly lost to time. Long live dsmtuners.com!

 

[311oneG]

couldn't agree more with your post! I run one of the biggest Jeep Clubs in Utah. Started it in 2009 on Jeepforum... Facebook has done the same thing in the jeep world. while the forums fall and crumble. all the new people getting into the industry go to Facebook and are told worthless information.

I was so thankful when I got my car to find a forum like this. I'll be paying for a supporting membership on Friday. Thank you for everyone's help with my project!

 

[Ludachris]

couldn't agree more with your post! I run one of the biggest Jeep Clubs in Utah. Started it in 2009 on Jeepforum... Facebook has done the same thing in the jeep world. while the forums fall and crumble. all the new people getting into the industry go to Facebook and are told worthless information.

I was so thankful when I got my car to find a forum like this. I'll be paying for a supporting membership on Friday. Thank you for everyone's help with my project!

I'm actually part of a forum owner group and the founder (previous owner) of JeepForum is in there. I might actually be meeting him in person next week.

 

[311oneG]

I'm actually part of a forum owner group and the founder (previous owner) of JeepForum is in there. I might actually be meeting him in person next week.

That is a perfect example of a forum that was bought and ruined. They gave my club their own subforum and at one time it was the most active non-tech section. After it was sold they removed all the club sections and put people back in regions. Since then, and with facebook popping up, my sections on the forum died.

My facebook page has over 5k members and is so active I can't even find my own posts from 30 minutes prior. We had to create our own basic website to inform members of our events. We are a large, non-profit club that works heavily with the forest service to preserve trials in the area and do service projects. If people used a forum, my job would be so much easier.

 

[Boomdeeze]

Just don't forget to interact with others here in the forum as much as you can. Searching only doesn't strengthen the community aspect of the site. Data archiving is only half of the equation. Building friendships and networking is the other half.

I contribute and interact whenever I can, we need to have a Tuners gathering at the next Shootout to put a face to the username!

 

[chrysler kid]

Please explain this comment, I'm not sure I understand.

Do you run the dsmtuners.com Facebook page? You havent contributed to driving Facebook users to the forums. I see zero content linkibg your dsmtuners.com Facebook page to direct users to the dsm tuners forums

And of this of course doesn't include you? Ahh never mind, perfect example here of guy on FB who doesn't contribute but acts really cool though.

Cool search my post history for the past 15 years and let me know how stupid ive been

 

[m_0ney_pit]

This explains why a lot of new users on tuners use their actual names as their handle instead of some other made up name ...because they heard about tuners on Facebook or are just used to Facebook.

Facebook really is a problem though it sucks out your time and before you know it your looking at your best friends - friends pictures of her hamster eating a mini cheeseburger. I deleted my account in 2009 after the high school kids started invading the site because before then it was strictly for college people to post pictures of the epic banger where you got hamboned last weekend to check for glory shots, checking up on ex's, and girls you knew could get unofficially married because that's fun.

Now Facebook resembles more of everyone's beurocratic nitmare where , like stated by many, the information is documented and tucked away but never to be seen again unless the content broke some law or offended your favorite interest group. F Facebook in the face.

 

[matt50317]

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I think if someone were to share a link from this group to another group like Facebook. When they click on the link, the first thing they should do is to have to answer a few questions regarding there own dsm, and maybe a profile or such. Instead have of being fed the answer right away. Bc once you get the answer from here, than thats it. Problem hopefully solved. If there's a way to so.

Also on fb in some of the forums, you have trolling, which most don't like. Js.

 

[infam0usdeed]

I couldn't agree with this any more. I left almost all the car groups on Facebook because of the disrespect and lack of knowledge. I asked a simple tuning question in a group that I was part of for like 4 years, and I got ripped apart. It was actually bad enough, I've lost a lot of motivation to keep working on my car (I've been having the same issues in the 355(Colorados and Canyons) groups as well). It's not a group I wanted to leave either, I've meet a lot of great people in there. Oh well. I help support the group and recruited for them. Even went out late one night to help another member(s) on the side of the road.
I had one younger buddy (no longer friends with him) get into the dsm scene, and I told him maintenance before mods. Do your timing belt, check for boost leaks, yada yada. Didn't listen to me. When out and bought shiny new Mishimoto intercooler. About a month later, he blew his headgasket. But he was a certified mechanic, so, what I could I say?
Anyways, we all appreciate what you guys do here. Keep it up. Stood this long against Facebook. I'm gonna assume you guys did outlast Myspace (I didn't have dsm in those days). What's a few more years?

 

[ThunderChild]

I don't have Facebook anymore, and I'm quite glad I don't. It's such an emotional and mental drain. 99% pointless crap, and the car groups are filled with know-it-alls, children, shady ppl trying to offload stuff faster than black market plutonium, and in general not time-nor-trustworthy ppl.

The ease of access for all things Facebook stands for has ruined alot of the connection people get from good community. This could spiral off into a "technology divided people with it's dependency" thing, but specifically things like Facebook I agree ruin online car enthusiast groups, or at the very least don't promote a healthy group atmosphere to nurture the growth and development of our combined passion for things mechanical and automotive.

 

[11secDSM]

Well said. Definitely miss the old days but sadly do not see it coming back although I'd love to see it.

 

[Galant665]

Excellent post. When I started with DSMs the summer of 1990. There was no net. AOL on a floppy disk and dial-up was roughly 1992. Talon digest cant even remember when it started I was on it from the beginning. Thinking late 92/early 93. You waited like a little kid for the download to come through and read. We all did. Didn't see fighting or threats. No negativity of any sort. Was all about helping and sharing with like minded people. Regional forums starting popping up all over in the mid to later 90s. They were great. Have your own meet-ups. Help with mods on each others cars. Track days. Most car people didn't know what a DSM was or capable of back then. Sure was fun on the street and track. Many of us bought the cars new or a few years old in pristine condition. The problems that plague the DSMs today we never had to deal with. Just being able to go to the dealer and order anything you needed was a godsend. Ironic that in the 90s not many of us ever referred to a DSM as unreliable. Now jump into the 2000s and the poor cars were on their 4th owner. Let alone today. But the forums were the place to be. Talon Digest was gone. Tech info, diagrams and pictures for repairs or mods. It was all there. And many vendors and companies shared info. Don't remember not wanting to help a fellow DSM owner back then. Everyone was sort of on the same team. Have owned atleast one DSM for the last 25 years. Many times up to 5 at once. So I have always referred back to the forums even just to spectate on anything that was new. Even just to see others builds and ideas. Lot guys wanted to move on to bigger and better platforms. Really hard to beat a well sorted DSM for the money. Many Mitsu enthusiasts jumped to the EVO. Which isn't cheap in the long run. Then came back to the DSM. Only to realize how extinct they are becoming in any kind of usable condition. Don't see the cars in the yards anymore much for parts. Untold thousands have been recycled. You look on the FB DSM sections its nothing but partout and cut the car up sales ads. The number of survivor cars is shrinking daily. And Holy Hell the condition of many is decent but to the poster, just wanna part it out get some cash bro.
Unfortunately its a look at me society today with many of the younger car guys. And feed me what I want to know right now, right f'ing now or I am out of here. So what is a forum to do. Bottom line is high % of those with a DSM today probably aren't the demographic for the forum. Square peg in a round hole. I wholeheartedly agree FB has been the death knoll for so much in this world. Am on other forums that are ghost towns now because so many from each moved to FB. Hopefully DSMtuners continues on and improves as much as it can. Too valuable to disappear. I am not moving to a different car platform. I am back up to six Mitsu powered vehicles and stocked up on as much drivetrain parts, interior, trim. Anything needed to keep them going for quite some time. If only I could go in the dealer and order some parts!!!

 

[99gst_racer]

Let me put it this way - people like Paul who create and sell unique auto parts will appreciate this - FB is to the automotive enthusiast community what Amazon is to companies that make high quality performance auto parts. And that's pretty scary.

I'm not sure I'm following you, Chris. So forgive me if I'm on a different page with the rest of this post. I think FB is great for the automotive enthusiast community in general. It's not great for archiving tech and sharing/tracking a build and a couple other things. But it's excellent for networking and linking manufacturers and retailers to the community, for quickly and easily sharing news within the automotive community, and for event planning. And I don't necessarily think Amazon is bad for retailers and manufacturers either. Amazon and FB are just tools. As popularity grows with such tools, it can change the market/environment. It can put some in an "adapt or die" situation, but I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing either. Complacency can be a killer.

If a person refused to use/acknowledge popular business tools and maintained his 1980 style of selling out of a brick and motor store and this this person went out of business as a result - would it be Amazon's fault or his fault for not adapting to the market?

As a manufacturer and seller, I can appreciate FB and Amazon as the tools that they represent to me. If the automotive enthusiast community is not taking complete advantage of FB as a tool (for the parts of it that make sense) and manufacturers and sellers are taking full advantage of Amazon as a tool, then I wholeheartedly feel it is only to their own disadvantage. These tools are not the enemy.

That being said, such tools cannot completely eliminate every forum board and brick and motor store. Many of those will continue to offer things that FB and Amazon cannot. Many will remain valuable to a market or community regardless. FB will never be able to do everything this website can do, and do it as well.

I for one, think that we can have social networks AND quality forum communities -

Agreed. Not only do I think we can have both, but it would be of overall benefit to everyone to have both.

maybe forums evolve into something slightly different in order to bring back more member participation. Forum owners need to continue to improve the forum user experience, but we also need to educate people in our communities the importance of supporting forum communities like this through participation, instead of using FB in place of them. And that starts with people actually using the forums and inviting others to connect with them there/here.

Also completely agree with this too. I think some evolution is in order, though I don't personally have any ideas to share.

 

[JS4G63]

As a private party, I vow to never list/sell a DSM part anywhere other than a DSM forum. If I can't find a buyer for DSM and Evo parts on DSM forums, then I guess no DSMer wants em, so just I'll put em in a cardboard box on the curb and notify the Craigslist scrappers & metalwork artists.

To breathe life back into the forums, suck it out of the inferior usurper. If you want DSM parts, come to the DSM forums "For Sale" sections. If you want to sell DSM parts, don't sell them on FB. There isn't, and never was any need, to involve Fecalbook in private party sales!

IMO, this is required reading, and is relevant to this discussion:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/06/23/the-disruption-machine
Disruptive Innovation, by definition, is replacing something superior with something inferior for the sake of monopoly.

 

[Ludachris]

I think FB is great for the automotive enthusiast community in general. It's not great for archiving tech and sharing/tracking a build and a couple other things. But it's excellent for networking and linking manufacturers and retailers to the community, for quickly and easily sharing news within the automotive community, and for event planning. And I don't necessarily think Amazon is bad for retailers and manufacturers either. Amazon and FB are just tools. As popularity grows with such tools, it can change the market/environment. It can put some in an "adapt or die" situation, but I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing either. Complacency can be a killer.

True, but I know quite a few business owners in the aftermarket who are hurting due to the user behavior/consumer expectations created by Amazon, along with the proliferation of counterfeit/knock-off products in their marketplace and the way they take over pricing of your products. FB and Amazon are tools that businesses need to try and leverage for sure, but their widespread adoption by the masses tend to have detrimental effects in some ways that aren't always easy to see right away. You're right though, as a business owner, you either adapt or your die. Unfortunately, sometimes the market is negatively impacted as a result.

In this case, if forums turn into ONLY archiving tools, and most networking and community interaction move to other platforms, even the best forums will end up dying off. I don't necessarily see this happening, but some already feel it's happened. Everyone thought print magazines were going extinct long ago and they are still making it work somehow. If forum technology can make some innovative jumps I think they'll still be around for a while.

 

[Ludachris]

As a private party, I vow to never list/sell a DSM part anywhere other than a DSM forum. If I can't find a buyer for DSM and Evo parts on DSM forums, then I guess no DSMer wants em, so just I'll put em in a cardboard box on the curb and notify the Craigslist scrappers & metalwork artists.

To breathe life back into the forums, suck it out of the inferior usurper. If you want DSM parts, come to the DSM forums "For Sale" sections. If you want to sell DSM parts, don't sell them on FB. There isn't, and never was any need, to involve Fecalbook in private party sales!

IMO, this is required reading, and is relevant to this discussion:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/06/23/the-disruption-machine
Disruptive Innovation, by definition, is replacing something superior with something inferior for the sake of monopoly.

Love this line from that article... "disruptive innovation: the selling of a cheaper, poorer-quality product that initially reaches less profitable customers but eventually takes over and devours an entire industry." In online community terms, it would be a social network that becomes almost addicting on a mobile device, despite its shortcomings.

 

[97egl]

I agree Facebook has ruined a lot of stuff and more than just car forums. I can't even view a tracks website to get updates for weather cancellations or date changes on for events because they post everything to Facebook and then if they get around to it they update their website. Facebook is a super piss poor way to relay information because there is absolutely NO organization to anything but it's the only way to get timely updates on events so I'm force to use it for that.

Another reason besides facebook that I think car forums like this are declining is the lack of motivation and drive people have now days. Rather than go out and build their own car a lot of the younger generation would rather sit around in their pajamas and man-bun while eating Cheetos (nothing against Cheetos) and watch youtube of somebody doing something than go out and do it themselves. Sometimes something someone does in a video may spark their interest far enough that they get as far as buying something to put on their car but probably never install it or give up when they realize that they have to turn a screwdriver to install their cold air intake.

 

[JS4G63]

<snip>the younger generation would rather sit around in their pajamas and man-bun while eating Cheetos (nothing against Cheetos)<snip>

https://www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2018/12/Man-Bun-Trash.jpeg

 

[zotis777]

Reading this thread has made me ashamed to be a lurker. I totally slipped into the “most questions have been answered and you’re looking for that thread” demographic. I can’t stand Facebook and 110% avoid it and the only used parts I’ve bought for my DSM have been from tuners.


Trying to be more active it might be build thread time. My DSM is currently a rolling shell in my garage and I’ve done a lot I should share with the community.

 

[coltboostin]

Agree 100% But, all things change over time. I'm glad I have the knowledge gained over the years. Kids that use FB exclusivity will never have the wealth of archived learning what was the forums. But in time, all things change. Funny paging through this thread, the only person with a join date older than mine, is the creator. Does that make me Jesus?

A lot of regional automotive forums have disappeared, and sadly, some really good tech info disappeared with them. It sucks.

And this makes me sad. the local forums where also a great, great resource. So many are dead. No archive, just gove.

 

[Mello]

If YOU don't login with FB then FB can't track any of YOUR activity. If you login without FB it doesn't affect you.

Do you know this is not true?

 

[Ludachris]

Do you know this is not true?

Do you have a FB account?

 

[JS4G63]

I think what he's getting at is that Facebook DOES build data profiles for non-facebook members. They collect a lot of their own information on non-fb members (through the use of embedded "like" buttons on 3rd party websites, and whatnot) but they also PURCHASE information on non-fb members to fill in the blanks. I am not a FB member and never have been, yet my face is still "tagged" in photos that my idiot friends uploaded (against my wishes), so now and forever more FB's facial recognition database knows what I look like along with other basic purchased/public information about me... despite myself NEVER having been to the website.

Whether THIS forum website contains any embedded Facebook hooks that can track users' activities here, is the question. According to my NoScript, Facebook does have a hook on this site and runs a script of some kind even though I logged in with a local 'tuners account. My initial hunch is that its function is nothing more than to handle federated account authentication, but I am not sure why it still wants to run when I'm already logged in locally. And, whether additional FB code/assets are loaded AFTER signing into this site with a FB account is something I cannot test for myself since I am not a FB user.

But I doubt Chris is doing anything nefarious here.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Ludachris]

Whether THIS forum website contains any embedded Facebook hooks that can track users here is the question. According to NoScript, facebook does have a hook on this site and I suspect its function is nothing more than federated account authentication. Whether additional facebook assets are loaded after signing into this site with a FB account is something I cannot test for myself.

That's essentially all we use it for, account authentication. With the high usage of FB by people who have never actually used forums (I know, strange to think that's a real thing) making it easier for those people to quickly login becomes essential these days. I will keep trying to make it easy for those people to create accounts and participate while also keeping privacy intact as much as possible.

 

[19gsx91]

I'm here for morale support on this one. I think a lot of what is being said is true and worth considering...

This site is definitely a treasure trove of information and for the short time I was on facebook I noticed that there was a lot of misinformation going around by people who didn't know better and then more seasoned guys have been around so long they don't even care enough to correct anymore because of the backlash that's possible.. I still remember there was one very informative gentleman with lift and alignment specs on fp2 cams and had all kinds of data on where they should be aligned for best results and when I went back to try to copy and paste this information over to here I couldn't even find the conversation anymore. someone deleted it, and thus the helpful comments were also gone. He had done basically a full write up in a comment section and.. poof. gone.

It is disheartening how fast the facebook for sale groups move things.

If it is any consolation Chris.. poke over to the NASIOC site or any other large Subaru forum. it is literally nothing but a whine fest with very little actual information being given because I think the guys that know their stuff have basically just given up to the constant droves of keyboard warriors more interested in disputing information than providing anything meaningful.

I has literally turned me off to ever owning one again because I can't find the information when I need it and don't want to go through dozens of pages of pointless arguments.