Exhaust or Gauges/MBC

[lucid15]

have budget for either a Thermal Catback with PR 3" Downpipe, or gauge pod/gauges (boost, innovative wideband, oil pressure) and MBC. I have a couple questions.

1)If i get the turboback exhaust will there be any problems i encounter considering i do not have a boost guage or MBC?
2)Where do you install the wideband sensor and oil pressure sensor? Would it be pointless installing these before i have an exhaust and/or 16g turbo?

Any input on order of upgrades involving these two would be great. I just dont have the budget this month to get both.

By the way, the only mods i have at the current moment are a chrome intake pipe with K&N Filter. Everything else is completely stock.

 

[Leonthefaded]

I would get the gauges and the gauge pod pillar and forget about the MBC for now. I'm a fan of stock boost.

 

[Tyeler18]

An exhaust is going to create the most noticeable improvement in power and sound, however, you could run into boost creep and have other issues with it.

Gauges are definitely a good first mod as you'll accurately be able to monitor the health of your engine. All 3 of your gauges are very important to a modified dsm as well.

If I were you- get the gauges and wait on the MBC. Then save up for your exhaust. Once you've got the exhaust, then a tuning solution. After the tuning solution THEN an MBC.

 

[lucid15]

I would get the gauges and the gauge pod pillar and forget about the MBC for now. I'm a fan of stock boost.

THanks for the reply, where does the wideband sensor install? Would i have to reinstall this when i get my exhaust? What about oil pressure?

 

[LarryJoe]

It's supposed to be at least 36" away from your turbo in the exhaust. I use the stock rear o2 location and it works perfectly fine.

 

[Tyeler18]

THanks for the reply, where does the wideband sensor install? Would i have to reinstall this when i get my exhaust? What about oil pressure?

If you get something like the MTX-L wideband you can either install it in the front o2 location (on the o2 housing) and run it's narrowband simulation wire to the ECU to make it run like stock, you could remove the rear o2 (after the cat) and put it there and either ignore the CEL it will throw for the rear o2, or run the simulation wire to the ecu and not have the CEL, or you can have another bung welded on to run it off it's own port. This would involve having 3 o2 sensors and is kind of worthless in my opinion, it would also require a new bung welded on your new exhaust. My MTX-L is run off the front o2 location and is setup for narrowband simulation. It works great, the ECU gets the information it wants and I get my wideband reading.

Oil pressure- Depending on if you want your factory gauge to still be hooked up, you can the sender off one of the ports on the Oil filter housing that doesn't have a sender in it, or the way I did it (since I did not care if my factory pressure gauge worked) was to remove the factory sender, and put the new sender in it's place.

 

[habitatguy187]

If all the maintenance is up to par and the car's running well I'd get the exhaust and the mbc, wideband after that.

 

[lucid15]

If you get something like the MTX-L wideband you can either install it in the front o2 location (on the o2 housing) and run it's narrowband simulation wire to the ECU to make it run like stock, you could remove the rear o2 (after the cat) and put it there and either ignore the CEL it will throw for the rear o2, or run the simulation wire to the ecu and not have the CEL, or you can have another bung welded on to run it off it's own port. This would involve having 3 o2 sensors and is kind of worthless in my opinion, it would also require a new bung welded on your new exhaust. My MTX-L is run off the front o2 location and is setup for narrowband simulation. It works great, the ECU gets the information it wants and I get my wideband reading.

Oil pressure- Depending on if you want your factory gauge to still be hooked up, you can the sender off one of the ports on the Oil filter housing that doesn't have a sender in it, or the way I did it (since I did not care if my factory pressure gauge worked) was to remove the factory sender, and put the new sender in it's place.

So the wideband and oil pressure gauge install can easily be done without modification and in a normal garage? Before any tuning software is this going to give me any CEL? Also, if im going to eventually be getting Link would i still wire my wideband into the ecu? Isnt this not a true wideband at this point? I cant really find any tech writeups on this, which is amazing.

If all the maintenance is up to par and the car's running well I'd get the exhaust and the mbc, wideband after that.

Car is definitely up to maintenance and running well. It only has 80k on it.. I am very tempted to get the exhaust first, but an mbc without a boost gauge is kind of worthless.

 

[93AWDDSM]

If getting the 3" TBE(turbo back exhaust) without turbo Hot side WG hole ported and o2 housing ported you will creep, mine was set as low as possible like 9-10 psi and it creeped average 2nd/3rd but in 4th it creeped bad and fuel cut at 19lbs when I went from stock exhaust to 3" TBE

I would get gauges first, don't worry about the MBC for now.
Try for boost gauge/oil pressure gauge/ wide band. So your sure your car is running alright.

 

[lucid15]

For the oil Pressure guage what accessories do i need to install it? I heard dont get Mechanical? Im getting the Innovate MTX-L wideband kit and am stuck on what brand of gauges/gauge pod to get for the OIl Pressure and boost guage.

 

[CSFX8588]

+1 Sensors. Knowledge is power. Oil pressure/wideband can help you prevent a blown engine. Plus its better to know it works/dialed in on the setup you have now before you start adding power.

 

[Tyeler18]

So the wideband and oil pressure gauge install can easily be done without modification and in a normal garage? Before any tuning software is this going to give me any CEL? Also, if im going to eventually be getting Link would i still wire my wideband into the ecu? Isnt this not a true wideband at this point? I cant really find any tech writeups on this, which is amazing.



Car is definitely up to maintenance and running well. It only has 80k on it.. I am very tempted to get the exhaust first, but an mbc without a boost gauge is kind of worthless.

Yes, wideband and oil pressure are easy to do in a garage. I'd do an oil change at the same time as the oil pressure gauge as a good portion will leak out of the OFH when you remove the senders/plugs. As far as the wideband, if you run the narrowband simulation wire to the ecu (assuming you put it in place of one of the factory o2 sensors) you will not throw a CEL. If you put it in the o2 housing like the factory o2, you MUST either have Link, or run the narrowband wire to the ecu, as the ecu cannot develop fuel trims without an upstream o2 reading. Basically it will run like complete garbage, if at all. The whole purpose of the narrowband simulation is that your Gauge will still be feeding you your wideband reading, while the ecu will be getting the narrowband signal that it requires to function. It's a win-win. You get your true AFR's, the ecu gets a factory signal.

For the oil Pressure guage what accessories do i need to install it? I heard dont get Mechanical? Im getting the Innovate MTX-L wideband kit and am stuck on what brand of gauges/gauge pod to get for the OIl Pressure and boost guage.

Oil pressure gauge should come with everything you need. Sender unit, wiring kit, and then the gauge itself. Mechanical is a tight rope- it requires you to run a hardline to the gauge which, I don't know about you, but I don't want hot oil run up to my pillar pod. If that line were to break or blow yourself/entire interior will be coated in hot oil. The good side of a mechanical gauge is that they are very accurate. I've seen some electric gauges that are off 20-30psi from actual readings. That's outrageous.

Look into a good quality gauge. Innovate is very high quality, even AEM is a good gauge, but they're widebands suck with Ecmlink. Defi is another very high quality gauge. Autometer is a good entry level gauge and is what I'm currently using. I bought the Prosport digital evo series when they first came out, and am glad to say I got rid of them. Prosport, glowshift etc are all the cheaper names. They're mechanical gauges work good for the most part. They're digital..... not so much. If you can afford it I'd look into saving for Defi/Innovates.

 

[lucid15]

Yes, wideband and oil pressure are easy to do in a garage. I'd do an oil change at the same time as the oil pressure gauge as a good portion will leak out of the OFH when you remove the senders/plugs. As far as the wideband, if you run the narrowband simulation wire to the ecu (assuming you put it in place of one of the factory o2 sensors) you will not throw a CEL. If you put it in the o2 housing like the factory o2, you MUST either have Link, or run the narrowband wire to the ecu, as the ecu cannot develop fuel trims without an upstream o2 reading. Basically it will run like complete garbage, if at all. The whole purpose of the narrowband simulation is that your Gauge will still be feeding you your wideband reading, while the ecu will be getting the narrowband signal that it requires to function. It's a win-win. You get your true AFR's, the ecu gets a factory signal.




Oil pressure gauge should come with everything you need. Sender unit, wiring kit, and then the gauge itself. Mechanical is a tight rope- it requires you to run a hardline to the gauge which, I don't know about you, but I don't want hot oil run up to my pillar pod. If that line were to break or blow yourself/entire interior will be coated in hot oil. The good side of a mechanical gauge is that they are very accurate. I've seen some electric gauges that are off 20-30psi from actual readings. That's outrageous.

Look into a good quality gauge. Innovate is very high quality, even AEM is a good gauge, but they're widebands suck with Ecmlink. Defi is another very high quality gauge. Autometer is a good entry level gauge and is what I'm currently using. I bought the Prosport digital evo series when they first came out, and am glad to say I got rid of them. Prosport, glowshift etc are all the cheaper names. They're mechanical gauges work good for the most part. They're digital..... not so much. If you can afford it I'd look into saving for Defi/Innovates.

VERY helpful post, thank you much! Last question, is the Lotek gauge pod higher quality than the glowshift pod?

 

[Tyeler18]

VERY helpful post, thank you much! Last question, is the Lotek gauge pod higher quality than the glowshift pod?

I've never used the Lotek, but I have/am using the glowshift. They're 3 pillar pod is supposed to be mounted onto the factory trim, however, If you remove that trim you can drill (or 3m tape etc) they're pod onto the pillar and it fits wonderfully. That's what I ended up doing. I took 2 of their mounting screws and drilled through the pod at the top and as close to the bottom as I could and into the pillar. I've since sold the 2g that that was in, however, both my spyders I will be removing the dash so that I can properly mount the pillar without being able to see any mounting screws or anything.

 

[Bud92gsx]

Make this a poll.

My vote is for exhaust. Get that out of the way.

 

[lucid15]

Make this a poll.

My vote is for exhaust. Get that out of the way.

bah its killing me! I have a Lotek Gauge pod, an Innovate MTX-L, Defi Red Racing Boost, Defi Red Oil Pressure all in a cart... $650 damn...

 

[Bud92gsx]

Its your decision,but my vote is still exhaust.

 

[lucid15]

Its your decision,but my vote is still exhaust.

I went ahead and ordered the gauges I said i was going to everything right with tasteful mods and my reasoning being i want to be able to correctly monitor my engine and maintain health rather than creeping and overboosting and feeling like i HAVE To purchase more parts to get back to a stable state. I might get exhaust, MBC, and link all in the next upgrade.

 

[FLASH1970]

If you're running stock boost, stock injectors, stock fuel pump... then a wideband and a boost gauge are kind of pointless right now. Without a tuning method you're not going to be able to adjust what the wideband is telling you so all you'll be able to do is look at the AFR number. Without an MBC you're not going to be able to adjust the boost so all you're going to be able to do is look at the PSI number. If the car's oil pressure gauge works, then an aftermarket one isn't really needed. The car also has a low oil light if oil gets low. I would have gone for exhaust. Or just continued to save for a wideband and tuning and an MBC. That way you can increase the boost and monitor knock & your air fuel ratio as well as injector duty cycle, intake temps... Numbers on a boost gauge aren't as important as knowing how the components on your engine are doing... I'd wait to install the wideband until you have a tuning method and an MBC. All you'll be doing is putting pointless wear & tear on the sensor otherwise.

 

[lucid15]

If you're running stock boost, stock injectors, stock fuel pump... then a wideband and a boost gauge are kind of pointless right now. Without a tuning method you're not going to be able to adjust what the wideband is telling you so all you'll be able to do is look at the AFR number. Without an MBC you're not going to be able to adjust the boost so all you're going to be able to do is look at the PSI number. If the car's oil pressure gauge works, then an aftermarket one isn't really needed. The car also has a low oil light if oil gets low. I would have gone for exhaust. Or just continued to save for a wideband and tuning and an MBC. That way you can increase the boost and monitor knock & your air fuel ratio as well as injector duty cycle, intake temps... Numbers on a boost gauge aren't as important as knowing how the components on your engine are doing... I'd wait to install the wideband until you have a tuning method and an MBC. All you'll be doing is putting pointless wear & tear on the sensor otherwise.

Damn VERY good point sir! you just made me call Extreme PSI and get my refund, looks like exhaust here i come. Thanks for the input, it really didn't make sense to get gauges first and since my stock BCS will still be controlling boost i have nothing to really worry about.

 

[93AWDDSM]

If you're running stock boost, stock injectors, stock fuel pump... then a wideband and a boost gauge are kind of pointless right now. If the car's oil pressure gauge works, then an aftermarket one isn't really needed.

was that supposed to be a joke? wide band and boost gauge are pointless as well as a oil pressure gauge? because the stock oil one works way better than a aftermarket one and shows exact amount of oil pressure in PSI?
also the wide band could show you if your car was leaning or running to rich for any random reason... doesn't seem pointless to me.

Damn VERY good point sir! you just made me call Extreme PSI and get my refund, looks like exhaust here i come. Thanks for the input, it really didn't make sense to get gauges first and since my stock BCS will still be controlling boost i have nothing to really worry about.

if you get 3" TBE you are guaranteed boost creep, then once that happens it will be your choice to pull the turbo hotside and port the WG hole or get a bigger WG flapper... also since you will be pulling the hotside might as well pull the o2 housing and port that.

 

[FLASH1970]

was that supposed to be a joke? wide band and boost gauge are pointless as well as a oil pressure gauge? because the stock oil one works way better than a aftermarket one and shows exact amount of oil pressure in PSI?

I never said they were pointless. I said when you're running the factory fuel injectors, the factory fuel pump, the factory boost on a small turbo... basically a stock car, unable to adjust anything, what's the point of monitoring it? I'm pretty sure Mitsubishi did some research on the timing and fuel maps as well as other parameters controlled by the computer to make sure it was safe when they mass produced this car. Now, 12psi of boost on a 42r is different than 12psi of boost on a 16g. But the OP is running a huge turbo where he'd have to worry about AFR.

The oil pressure gauge I find to be more handy when you are experimenting with different oil weights, or maybe have some loose bearing clearances on a race engine. He's running the factory engine, probably using the recommended oil weight... once again, pretty sure Mitsubishi did some testing here before they recommended what to use. For someone just starting to modify their car, I think as long as the needle is between the two marks on the factory oil pressure gauge, I'd spend the money elsewhere.

I would like to add that if you were to get gauges, those would be the 3 to get. You might be able to notice in my avatar that those are the 3 I have. I have the gauge bezel with my LC-1 w/XD16 gauge as well as an oil pressure gauge. Down by my OBD2 port I can see my e-boost 2 through the hole in the steering wheel. I have those in there because my factory oil pressure gauge stopped working and after replacing the sender a couple times I just figured an aftermarket one would do. I have the wideband in due to one of my 450 injectors dying and having 880's lying around. So, when I swapped out the injectors I needed a way to get my AFR in check (I use ECUFlash & the Ceddymods to tune). The Boost gauge/controller is in because I installed a hard UICP and a 1g BOV (the plastic 2g BOV can only hold the factory amount of boost. Or at least that was the case for my car) so I am able to run a few more psi of boost and had the E-boost laying around.

But all the gauges I installed were a result of NEEDING to have them to keep things in check due to changing things on the car or things not working. This car was bone stock for well over 200K miles and is still going with 251k on it.

 

[mr2krazee]

imo a data logger would be an excellent first mod, then you can "see" what every future does to your setup. so i would go with the wideband, and a data logger personally, it would be nice to get setup to properly up the boost and KNOW your safe doing so. just my .02 cents

 

[hocka09]

For what it is, I installed a 3" turbo back on my stock t25 and just ran wastegate pressure with the bcs removed and it hits 15 psi and stays steady, which is a healthy number if you're not always in boost. If you can swing it, maybe get the exhaust and a single pod with a boost gauge. The boost gauge really is pretty damn important being that if you keep the psi in a safe range the a/f will most likely be at a safe level as well.

 

[93AWDDSM]

I never said they were pointless. I said when you're running the factory fuel injectors, the factory fuel pump, the factory boost on a small turbo... basically a stock car, unable to adjust anything, what's the point of monitoring it? I'm pretty sure Mitsubishi did some research on the timing and fuel maps as well as other parameters controlled by the computer to make sure it was safe when they mass produced this car. Now, 12psi of boost on a 42r is different than 12psi of boost on a 16g. But the OP is running a huge turbo where he'd have to worry about AFR.

The oil pressure gauge I find to be more handy when you are experimenting with different oil weights, or maybe have some loose bearing clearances on a race engine. He's running the factory engine, probably using the recommended oil weight... once again, pretty sure Mitsubishi did some testing here before they recommended what to use. For someone just starting to modify their car, I think as long as the needle is between the two marks on the factory oil pressure gauge, I'd spend the money elsewhere.

I would like to add that if you were to get gauges, those would be the 3 to get. You might be able to notice in my avatar that those are the 3 I have. I have the gauge bezel with my LC-1 w/XD16 gauge as well as an oil pressure gauge. Down by my OBD2 port I can see my e-boost 2 through the hole in the steering wheel. I have those in there because my factory oil pressure gauge stopped working and after replacing the sender a couple times I just figured an aftermarket one would do. I have the wideband in due to one of my 450 injectors dying and having 880's lying around. So, when I swapped out the injectors I needed a way to get my AFR in check (I use ECUFlash & the Ceddymods to tune). The Boost gauge/controller is in because I installed a hard UICP and a 1g BOV (the plastic 2g BOV can only hold the factory amount of boost. Or at least that was the case for my car) so I am able to run a few more psi of boost and had the E-boost laying around.

But all the gauges I installed were a result of NEEDING to have them to keep things in check due to changing things on the car or things not working. This car was bone stock for well over 200K miles and is still going with 251k on it.

Was not trying to put down your post, I understand they made
Many from the factory and most likely got fuel trims and everything right but I still like to see a real boost gauge( it helps me when or if I have a boost leak my vac while idling is usually 21-22 and if its slightly higher like 16-19 I feel as if there's a leak) also the oil gauge is handy for telling the exact pressure but to each their own, and wide band might not be useful at this stage but once he gets exhaust and MBC... He's going to turn it up without either of those gauges? Also logger would be good if your not goin to get link for a while.

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