EVO III 16G with 450's?

[TurboBlue]

Well after taking my tranny out to replace the clutch, i come to learn that my freshly rebuilt turbo was built wrong and i need a new one. I figured i might as well just upgrade. I came across an EVO III 16g ported and flapped for $400. But i dont have the money right now for new pump or injectors. My question is, if i run low boost, like 7 psi, can i run that turbo on the stock 450's untill i can upgrade my fuel. Im at Wyotech right now and am graduating on the 24th, at which point i have to drive my carhome, so i need a turbo ASAP. So if anyone knows and can help me out it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[1badtsi]

you can run around 14 psi on stock fuel system

 

[Pulsr]

Yeah I have the evo III 16g and Im running 14 on the stock fuel system. I got the pump in yesterday and you can go as much as 16 on just the pump. After that its injectors and afc.

 

[TimG]

My buddies TSi with a EVO3 is running 19psi on 450s. He has a rewired walbro 255LPH, n/t FPR and a SAFC. He's almost maxed out but he seems to be fine for the time being.

 

[yo2001]

I wouldn't go pass 14-15psi.

I was making around 300ARHP on 550's and injectors were beyond it's limit. :thumbdown

 

[TurboBlue]

cool, i already have the SAFC but other than that, stock fuel. Turbo was only used for like 7 Dyno pulls too, no street use, with a 1-year warranty if install it with a stainless oil feed line

 

[EclipseOwner95]

the least ammount of boost you would be able to run on an e3 is probably 12-14psi , at the lowest 10, because im pretty sure the wg is sprung for a minimum of 10lbs , my plain b16 hits 11-12 running off the wg, i assume the e3 will hit a lil more. unless on the other hand you buy a 7psi actuator

 

[eclipse98gs-t]

What about race gas???
255 walbro, 460 injectors and race gas
Maybe 18-19psi???

 

[Kevin Jewer]

I ran a 14b at 25 psi (30 lbs/min) on race gas on stock injectors and pump with race gas. The evo16g will move more air though, but I would expect low 20s (same 30 lbs/min) to be safe enough. Only way to know for sure is to log each run and raise it gradually. Watch for AFR going leaner at higher rpms.

 

[burldude]

I ran a 14b at 25 psi (30 lbs/min) on race gas on stock injectors and pump with race gas. The evo16g will move more air though, but I would expect low 20s (same 30 lbs/min) to be safe enough. Only way to know for sure is to log each run and raise it gradually. Watch for AFR going leaner at higher rpms.

Watch for afr going leaner at higher rpms? A 14b at 25 was on the ragged edge of destroying your motor race gas or not . Not a good Idea :thumbdown

 

[NDgsx]

Have you ever actually run real race gas? Not the 110 unleaded junk, real gas, VP C16. I've had a 20G car go to 13.4:1 and only get a knock count of 15. It's a very slow burning fuel, even with the high intake temps of a 14b at 25psi it's not unsafe. Just watch for knock.

As for you guys saying the 450s will let you run 16psi with an evo 3, wow I'd like see how your cars are tuned. With a 14b at 16psi you'll be at 80% duty cycle already. With the increased airflow of the evo 3 you'll hit that dc even sooner. As always though log *YOUR* car and see what it does, nobody can tell you exactly how your particular car will behave.

 

[Tomeek]

As always though log *YOUR* car and see what it does, nobody can tell you exactly how your particular car will behave.

there you got your answer

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Just to toss in some bench racing numbers, lets look at fuel requirements.

14b flows 30 lbs/min max. At 11:1 (typical pump gas AFR) you would need 2.7 lbs/min fuel, 163 lbs/hr, 27 gallons per hour, 102 liters per hour. A 1g stock pump at 25 psi of boost will not keep up at about 80 lph. 2g pump will be just over 100 lph, so thats pretty close to its limit. Both example are rewired by the way. Un-rewired, 2g is no longer able to keep up, 1g isnt even in the ballpark. I would not recomend trying this on a 2g pump on pump gas. And on a 1g dont even think about it 2g pump is better.

Now lets look at race gas numbers. We will assume an AFR of 12.5:1, which is fairly typical for 116-117 octane race gas. A bit conservative even. Lets go though it again. 30 lbs/min airflow from the 14b at 25 psi, 2.4 lbs/min fuel, 144 lbs/hour, 24 gph, 90 lph. The 1g pump still isnt enough to be comfortable, but its right there, and people have done it. I would say thats pushing it. A 2g pump however has over 10 lph of extra headroom. Quite safe.

On my setup I should run out of pump at 62 lbs/min, and indeed at 64 lbs/min AFR climbed to 14:1 from 7000 to 8000 rpm. I'll take real world experience over math anyday, but the math doesnt lie. And I've given you both Hope some poeple find this informative.

 

[kpt4321]

I've had a 20G car go to 13.4:1 and only get a knock count of 15.

To back this up, I have seen a car with an even bigger turbo go as lean as 14:1 and have about 20 knock counts. I've also seen a whole bunch in the 13's with little to no knock.

 

[vertGST]

i am going to run som vp-c16 this saturday on the dyno. i am currently running 17-18psi on the stock fuel system with a 14b and i am fine. going to play with the boost a little and watch the a/f ratio. last dyno day i know someone with a t-25 and tihs load of port work in the o2 housing and exhaust mani put down 288 fwhp on c-16 @ 22 psi and a ghetto front mount on a 2nd gen.

 

[l4rz]

Ran 21 psi on evo3 16g, 450 injectors, rewired stock FP, stock IC and methanol injection (approx. 400cc/min). Knock <10 in the entire powerband.

PS. 94 octane.

 

[jimwross]

I run a ported Big 16g w/ the stock injectors, S-AFC II, and a Walbro 190.

Tuned on the Dyno, everythings fine @ 19psi...

 

[GSX503]

I have a 98 gsx all stock fuel system, big front mount and down pipe and I just installed a t3/t4 hybrid similar to 18g. The car goes nowhere, I ran it at 19psi and fuel cuts bad on 2nd gear @4300rpm. Now I'm running 10psi car still won't pull, does this mean I need to upgrade fuel system? What kind of fuel do I need? I want to go only 300HP, I'm a normal daily driver but need just enough HP to blow away some cars on the street.

The turbo sounds like a police siron at first, then it pitches at a higher tone. This sound cool or what.

 

[rarson]

14b flows 30 lbs/min max.

Is the small 16g wheel so much of an improvement that it flows 5 lbs/min more than the 14b? Because I've seen almost 35 lbs/min with my small 16g. I'm not questioning your info, I'm just curious if that's really the case because I wouldn't think it would be.

I would also agree though that 450's are not big enough to run big boost on. Hell, 550's aren't anywhere big enough. I've almost maxed them out with a small 16g (at only 20 psi).

 

[honduraneclipse]

I wouldn't go pass 14-15psi.

I was making around 300ARHP on 550's and injectors were beyond it's limit. :thumbdown

i dont get it why are you maxing out your injectors at 300hp when chris blanc ran 11.7 with 550s im sure thats well over 300hp and he did that with a blown head gasket!!!!
im going to run 550s with my evo 16g set up and hoping close to 400 hp when im done...

 

[yo2001]

i dont get it why are you maxing out your injectors at 300hp when chris blanc ran 11.7 with 550s im sure thats well over 300hp and he did that with a blown head gasket!!!!
im going to run 550s with my evo 16g set up and hoping close to 400 hp when im done...

Cause I tuned on pump gas. I don't know for sure, but 11/7 was on race gas.

God luck trying for 400HP on 550's. My dyno 297HP was on all four wheels. Well over 300 crank HP.

 

[GPTourer]

Its funny how whenever someone asks a question like this, people always come up with examples like "I did it with X" where X = something like methanol injection, race gas, dylithium crystals, etc. I gather from the first post that this person doesn't have resources for anything exotic to bolster his octane needs, nor is he out to make one miracle pass down a dragstrip. Sounds to me like he wants to get his car off the premises and make it home so he can chug around on a daily basis until he can muster up the funds to cover his upgrades.

14psi max.

 

[EclipseOwner95]

i dont get it why are you maxing out your injectors at 300hp when chris blanc ran 11.7 with 550s im sure thats well over 300hp and he did that with a blown head gasket!!!!
im going to run 550s with my evo 16g set up and hoping close to 400 hp when im done...

Your going to need alot more than that to do 400whp, I know SBR just broke 400whp on their e3 16g and that is a shop built car that was most likely on race gas and alot bigger injectors than 550's , 400whp on an e3 and 550's is just not a reasonable goal, maybe 325-350, 400 thats pushing it.

 

[Talonman]

Your going to need alot more than that to do 400whp, I know SBR just broke 400whp on their e3 16g and that is a shop built car that was most likely on race gas and alot bigger injectors than 550's , 400whp on an e3 and 550's is just not a reasonable goal, maybe 325-350, 400 thats pushing it.

and I believe slowboy used a 2.3L stroker motor

 

[EclipseOwner95]

and I believe slowboy used a 2.3L stroker motor

Touche (sp)