Evo 8 ECU In 2g Works!!

[williillii]

I wasnt really having "phantom knock" problems..mine would knock from 3 to 7 counts when I stabbed the throttle at 3000-3500rpm. I have seen that described as "tip-in" knock. I have raised the low multiplier from 13 to 15. The mid is still 18 and the hi is untouched at 21.. I have seen no knock like this for the past 100 miles or so. AFR is 11.2:1 and timing is peaking at 13*. Being real conservative with the timing right now because I dont really know what this motor will like.

Also, today I did something very stupid. I was working on the wiring harness outside, and it started to rain so I just climbed in the seat upside down and kept goin. It got real hot so I hooked the battery back up and turned on the blower....then forgot to turn the key to off when I plugged the ECU back in...yep...

I hear ZZZP!. Look at the CEL and its not lit...but the car still cranks and runs. But now my TPS reads only 80% and my car runs 1AFR leaner...the CEL is also burnt out. But otherwise I dont notice any problems...anyone ever done this before?

 

[knochgoon24]

Bummer. I was going to comment on the knock.

I even tried running an evo 8 knock sensor. That didn't help one bit. I actually had to bump my low multiplier up to 26 to keep from getting phantom knock.

 

[williillii]

Wow. Yeah I never had any knock while free revving or anything. Even at WOT I havent seen a single count. I actually picked up 2 counts one time yesterday but it was on a 3-4 shift.

I was messing around with the ECU today...I just took my fuel maps and rich-ened it up by 1 and now the car is back to running like before I zapped it. Weird.

Maybe once I change the TPS the car will act normal again because the signal is only 80% right now?

 

[jjgrizz73]

Hey guys, anyone have an idea of why my car leans out so badly at WOT around 5k rpm and up? I scaled the injector sizing way down, added tons of fuel and doesnt really help at all. Its nice and rich until I hit that point then it jumps to ~13-14:1. I have no knock, a pretty good amount of timing also. Runs excellent at these RPMs when at 1/2 or 3/4 throttle though. So its def. in the higher loads.

Running SD if it matters

 

[the_mork]

Post your map and RPM VE tables as well as your fuel map and injector size. Also list any mods that affect VE that aren't in your profile as well as your exact injectors.

Which MAP sensor are you using? Are you certain that it is calibrated correctly?

My money is on issues with map/RPM VE tables but I wont be able to tell you much without seeing them. Also not that it matters significantly but what rom are you using?

 

[williillii]

Have any of you guys tried mr freds wideband patch yet? I was thinking about implementing it and setting a target closed loop AFR of about 15.8:1.

 

[jjgrizz73]

I am using the GM 3bar, it seems calibrated fine, sits at 0 with the car off. Heres a picture of it all. They are PTE 1000cc injectors. I know people seem to have to knock the scaling way down for PTE but I though 770 would be enough, I just changed it to 750 but havent run the car yet with it. Im not real good at using this yet, my buddy set it all up for the most part since he runs his Evo on this patch without any problems. I just go in and change fuel/timing/etc. I am using 96531706 with v7 of course.

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[williillii]

Your entire fuel map is like 12:1 or richer. Something is definitely going on there. Maybe try putting the MAF back in and scaling the injectors first? What does your fuel pressure look like?

 

[jjgrizz73]

The injector scaling has been all over from almost 900 down to 750 now and doesnt help. Cruising is perfect, so is tip in and everything up til around 5k rpm but only at WOT. Doesnt really make much sense to me, with that corner of the map so rich it should be much much richer.

 

[the_mork]

Throw away your SD tune. You absolutely should not have an RPM VE table that looks anything like that. RPM VE should look like a curve with 100% near the mid ranges and tapering off at the ends. I don't think my table drops below 90% anywhere.

Second, of course your cruise and idle are perfect because that is all you've tuned for. Running your entire MAP VE table up to ~120 load barely gets you into spoolup, your outlier at the top is the right way to do it (define the sensor maximum) but I also expect that that number is a bit low (load side), at least it is quite a bit higher on my car. You're going to have to redo your SD tune. I've posted my tune on here a couple of times and I would post it again for you but I don't have my laptop here, you can use my tune or likely a tune from someone running an H8 ecu will work just fine as well for a baseline to get you into the ballpark.

 

[jjgrizz73]

Hmm...I'm at work now, ill have to go try to find your tune in here. What map are you using? My load reaches about 260 or so I believe, ill check my logs. Ill also have to ask why my buddies is so different, since he said he used his maps on his sd evo

 

[the_mork]

Take a look at these. Something is just desperately wrong with your tune. How does your buddies car run? He may have either made a mistake on your car or he just isn't a good tuner. Either way there is an issue with what is going on.

Post your rom and I'll see if I can double check for you that you have the right scaling for you map sensor, doing that will just make us certain that we're not tuning over problems.

 

[jjgrizz73]

His car runs great. Holset'd evo tuned up nicely. We never sat down and tuned completely since we both work constantly and never really have time. I just want the car to run better already, running so lean is starting to get scary haha.

Also I cant make out the picture you posted...way too small man
thanks for the help i appreciate it

I attached the .hex

I just found that in my laptop with that rom, the Map was not set to "kpagm3bar" but was on "map 16 bit" which was WAY off. Im sure this will change a hell of alot, so Ill flash it on tonight and see what happens tomorrow morning.

Justin, I used your MAP VE & calibration you posted on page 35. Are those the ones you still currently run?

 

[the_mork]

I'm sure they aren't but they'll be better for you than the ones I'm using because I have to use my SD tables for fuel control down low with my 1600cc injectors. Either way both sets are close enough to start a good baseline and you should tune from there.

 

[PharmEcis]

A few notes about my setup and some theories about certain issues:

95 talon w/ a 6 bolt swap. Green CAS. I used a 3G RS/GS ECU w/ EVO 94170008 ROM. Didn't use an adapter harness, I repinned the stock harness. First thing I had to do was reswap the plug wires and put them back to their standard OEM configuration. After that the car fired right up with the right MAF scaling, size and injector size change.

Had a bunch of codes pop up and went in and disabled all the emissions related items since they weren't hooked up. I've got two codes left, want to guess which two? P0335 and P0340. I know why these codes pop up. I've dealt with these codes on many occasions on the 3G. These codes will be triggered when the cam reluctor wheel is not correct for the ECU. The car will run fine but the codes are triggered due to the ECU not being able to properly sync the cam sensor. What the cam sensor tells it as home (tdc 1) is not right and pops the code. On the 3G, this is easily fixed by putting in the proper reluctor wheel.

For you 97+ guys the fix should be easy. Grab the reluctor wheel from an EVO 8 and call it a day. Yes I know the reluctor is on the exhaust cam on the VIII vs the intake cam on the 2G. However if you check the waveforms produced by the two reluctors you will see the difference. They are almost identical but the 2nd pulse is of a longer duration on the EVO.

However since I'm a 6 bolt I don't have the option. I have to run the cas because I have no crank sensor. The only thing I can think of at this point is a custom wheel. Sure I could run a EDM ROM since it doesn't have the code to verify proper sync... But that's the whole point. IT'S NOT SYNCED.

So now I guess I'm going to have to have a custom wheel made for my CAS. Joy. All this so I can sell the car with it running properly. ::

However, this should get you guys running properly w/o the P0335 / P0340 codes.

edit: CYLINDER,CAMSHAFT POSIT [Part# MD375814] It's a $12 part at mitsparts.com. I have a client coming in w/ a '98 GSX in the next week or two for an EVO VIII ECU swap and I have multiple spare reluctors at my shop so I'll test my theory on his car and report back. 95% sure this is a fix for those codes on an USDM ROM.

 

[PharmEcis]

I've confirmed that putting in the proper cam pickup in a 97+ car gets rid of the P0335 and P0340 codes.

 

[clockworktoy]

Def agree with Mork, My RPM VE starts low and goes towards 100% then tappers back down. I think you should start off with a fresh tune. Use the provided settings and that should get your car running better than it is now.

 

[Ceddy]

Since there are a few 97s here, I thought it would be the best place to ask.


Mitsu decided to change the ecu plugs midway though the 2G production.

The older style plugs have two swing out "wings" in the back.

The newer style plugs have a "pop top", like the newer Evos.


I know the 95s have the "wings" and the 99s have "pop top", but I'm unsure when they switched over.


Does anyone with a 97 remember what style plugs they have?

(I ask because they use different pins in each style plug.)

 

[ed_GST]

From 97 they started using the pop top plugs
I have confirmed it many times

 

[knochgoon24]

I have the pop top ones. 4/97 build date.

 

[the_mork]

Also pop tops here, IIRC I have a 9/96 build date.

Congrats Knockgoon on the Wiseman status.

PharmEcis, I hope you're not feeling ignored. I'm interested in your experiment and whether there is any significant advantage to changing the CASs. Please do report back so that we know what is going on.

 

[knochgoon24]

We I finally got my car back to the drag strip last night. It was a big disappointment on my end. First run I had to lift at the 1/8th due to running really lean and knocking. Added more fuel before my second run. I still had to lift from running lean, so I added even more fuel through the SD RPM VE table (I'm now 5-10% richer than before run 1). Even after adding that much extra fuel, I was still really lean up top and had to lift.

I'm thinking that either my fuel filter is clogged or my cams breathe way better than I thought was possible.

I wish they would come out with the 3D SD VE tables already.

Time slip from my third run:
60' - 1.916
330 - 5.574
1/8 - 8.738
MPH - 78.43
1000 - 11.535
1/4 - 13.869
MPH - 95.05

I lifted right around the 1/8th and only got on it 50% throttle the rest of the way. It was just way to lean and knocking. This was at 19 psi. I didn't even get to mess with the launch map stuff. I only left the line with 5psi by brake boosting. It was already trying to pull through the brakes.

Congrats Knockgoon on the Wiseman status.

Thanks.

 

[williillii]

^Ah man thats no fun. Hope you get your issue sorted.

Kinda reminds me of when I went last week. My car has mid/low 13s in it at least. But I screwed up and accidentally put in a set of BPR6ES instead of the 8s I had been using. Car was misfiring like crazy over 11psi. Could only manage a 14.4@100mph.

 

[knochgoon24]

I'm replacing the fuel filter now before I autox tomorrow. I'm going to check the plugs while I'm under the hood.

 

[clockworktoy]

Knockgoon: I had the same problem last time i was at the track, its something to do with the SD tables not being tuned correctly but i haven't really messed with it too much not until i solve my misfire problem. Oh and ill add your a better driver than i am, best time i cut was a 14.1@110