Evo 2 wont select 3rd and 4th

[Evo_3]

As mentioned in my previous post I just purchased this evo 2. When the car is on or off it does not go into 3rd or 4th gear. It feels like something is blocking it. Car has ORC twin plate clutch. I looked around but couldn't see anything unusual. I've uploaded a video here

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[twicks69]

More than likely broke a shift rail end on the 3/4. Typically this doesn't happen with an Evo 2 gearbox as they have forged shift rails and a steel 3/4 fork, but anything can happen. Same goes if the shift fork roll pin worked itself out and is causing the shift issue.

You will need the transmission disassembled to fix the problem.

Do you have the tools to do this if I type a writeup?

Where are you located?

 

[Evo_3]

You will need the transmission disassembled to fix the problem.

The transmission was literally just reassembled and fitted on. I only got the car a few days ago from a friend. Its been sitting for a very long time. When I first got into it, 1,2,3,4 all was doing the same thing and only 5th and reverse was working. After a few trys 1st and 2nd worked but 3rd and 4th stayed the same. I'm located in the UK

 

[Evo_3]

More than likely broke a shift rail end on the 3/4. Typically this doesn't happen with an Evo 2 gearbox as they have forged shift rails and a steel 3/4 fork, but anything can happen. Same goes if the shift fork roll pin worked itself out and is causing the shift issue.

You will need the transmission disassembled to fix the problem.

Do you have the tools to do this if I type a writeup?

Where are you located?

Will low trans oil cause this? Or bad shifter cable

 

[twicks69]

Ok, well if you just had it apart...... you could have easily done something wrong.
A shift cable could do this too if the bracket is loose or damaged cable, or if you have something contacting the shift lever externally restricting its movement. Do a visual analysis first to confirm.

 

[Evo_3]

Ok, well if you just had it apart...... you could have easily done something wrong.
A shift cable could do this too if the bracket is loose or damaged cable, or if you have something contacting the shift lever externally restricting its movement. Do a visual analysis first to confirm.

I just got the car, the previous owner did. They said they are sure everything was working fine, the car did stay in the unit for a long time though and not get driven. Looks like I'm going to have to remove and inspect

 

[twicks69]

Well, do visual analysis outside of the vehicle first. Inspect the area around your shift cables and shift cable lever / selector lever on the transmission to confirm that nothing is in contact or proximity of contact to the levers causing an interference issue. Pull the panel around the shifter assembly in the car and confirm that there is nothing interfering with the range of movement of the shift lever / cable assembly, and that everything is tight and properly installed. Make sure the plastic shift lever pad is on the shift cable lever arm that actuates the selector arm on the transmission.

If all of those things are functioning properly, and you have no engagement of gears, you will need to drain and remove the transmission and then do a full teardown and inspect.

 

[Evo_3]

Well, do visual analysis outside of the vehicle first. Inspect the area around your shift cables and shift cable lever / selector lever on the transmission to confirm that nothing is in contact or proximity of contact to the levers causing an interference issue. Pull the panel around the shifter assembly in the car and confirm that there is nothing interfering with the range of movement of the shift lever / cable assembly, and that everything is tight and properly installed. Make sure the plastic shift lever pad is on the shift cable lever arm that actuates the selector arm on the transmission.

If all of those things are functioning properly, and you have no engagement of gears, you will need to drain and remove the transmission and then do a full teardown and inspect.

Thank you for the info. I checked where the cables are on the trans and everything seems fine. I've uploaded a video you can see it.

I forgot to mention, the car has been sitting down for close to a year. When I first got into it, 1st and 2nd gear done the same thing and after a few trys it worked, but 3rd and 4th never did. I'm going to start it and let it get warm, drive it around the block to let all the oil go around the trans and go from there.

Also going to remove cables from the trans side and try by hand to see if the issue is cables or in the boxhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llUrOmUv5PU

Also the trans is Evo 2 with 1.8 GSR final drive and 5th gear

 

[twicks69]

The video only shows the car turned off shifting and not going into gear, which it could be anything from that the synchro engagement teeth are not aligned with the 3/4 slider engagement teeth and the 3/4 gear engagement teeth.

What gear oil and viscosity is in the gearbox?

Does it shift into all gears with the on, vs warmed up, vs driving? The final drive and 5th gear won't cause any issues.

Well, the only things I can think of off the top of my head are:
*If the gearbox was assembled and not lubricated and there was oxidation between the three synchro rings for 3rd and 4th synchros, or were jammed for 3rd and 4th due to broken springs or (both of these scenarios would be surprising to happen considering it just was assembled, albeit, it could have been assembled incorrectly, but that would only be able to be known by complete disassembly).

*If you have shifting issues with 3rd/4th ONLY WHILE RUNNING as the primary problem, you could be dealing with a clutch disengagement / adjustment / hydraulics issue.

*Not shifting into 3rd/4th could be a damaged 3rd/4th hub and slider where the slider is seized on the hub (which could be a possibility due to overheating / warpage, or improper installation)

*A damaged 3/4 shift rail end or fork (which it doesn't look like from the limited movement of the shifter in-car video)

*A seized shift rail detent ball in the bearing plate (middle of the 3x poppet plugs on the outside of the gearbox that have a detent ball and spring installed, with it in the vehicle, the bottom is 1st/2nd, middle is 3rd/4th, top is 5th/Rev). You could remove the detent poppet plug (14mm), then remove the spring and use a small magnetic pickup tool and remove the detent ball, then try and shift into 3rd and 4th.

*Otherwise, it could be something dumb like the person assembling the gearbox didn't install the reverse interlock detent between the 3/4 and 5/R shift rails which would cause a shifting issue, and require a complete teardown.

Still, I cannot deduce what the problem is internally / externally / adjustment, etc without further analysis by you, and most definitely the transmission teardown with images.

I am happy to help, considering this is what I do for a profession, and it is easy for me to make some sort of writeup, and I am experienced in all variations of DSM / Evo drivetrain components.

 

[Evo_3]

You could remove the detent poppet

This is exactly what I've been told by a few people. I think this is the first thing I will do. Thank you very much for the write up, I will check everything you have mentioned before removing the box. Worse case scenario the box will have to be removed. Thank you again

 

[Evo_3]

The video only shows the car turned off shifting and not going into gear, which it could be anything from that the synchro engagement teeth are not aligned with the 3/4 slider engagement teeth and the 3/4 gear engagement teeth.

What gear oil and viscosity is in the gearbox?

Does it shift into all gears with the on, vs warmed up, vs driving? The final drive and 5th gear won't cause any issues.

Well, the only things I can think of off the top of my head are:
*If the gearbox was assembled and not lubricated and there was oxidation between the three synchro rings for 3rd and 4th synchros, or were jammed for 3rd and 4th due to broken springs or (both of these scenarios would be surprising to happen considering it just was assembled, albeit, it could have been assembled incorrectly, but that would only be able to be known by complete disassembly).

*If you have shifting issues with 3rd/4th ONLY WHILE RUNNING as the primary problem, you could be dealing with a clutch disengagement / adjustment / hydraulics issue.

*Not shifting into 3rd/4th could be a damaged 3rd/4th hub and slider where the slider is seized on the hub (which could be a possibility due to overheating / warpage, or improper installation)

*A damaged 3/4 shift rail end or fork (which it doesn't look like from the limited movement of the shifter in-car video)

*A seized shift rail detent ball in the bearing plate (middle of the 3x poppet plugs on the outside of the gearbox that have a detent ball and spring installed, with it in the vehicle, the bottom is 1st/2nd, middle is 3rd/4th, top is 5th/Rev). You could remove the detent poppet plug (14mm), then remove the spring and use a small magnetic pickup tool and remove the detent ball, then try and shift into 3rd and 4th.

*Otherwise, it could be something dumb like the person assembling the gearbox didn't install the reverse interlock detent between the 3/4 and 5/R shift rails which would cause a shifting issue, and require a complete teardown.

Still, I cannot deduce what the problem is internally / externally / adjustment, etc without further analysis by you, and most definitely the transmission teardown with images.

I am happy to help, considering this is what I do for a profession, and it is easy for me to make some sort of writeup, and I am experienced in all variations of DSM / Evo drivetrain components.

Got some good news! Removed the cables from transmission side and went through the gears manually and they all work perfectly fine! So my guess is stretched shifter cables

 

[twicks69]

Well the cables wouldn't typically affect only 3/4, but if you have a spare set to test with i guess give that a shot. What is the condition of the plastic shift pad on the shift lever that actuates the shift selector arm up and down? Check the bracketry and lever arm base to ensure the fasteners are tight and properly installed.

 

[danl]

I had a similar issue after buying a car and I had to walk through everything in logical order, verifying the parts were working correctly and that they were the correct parts.

I found numerous issues in the mechanical shifting area. I found numerous issues with the hydraulic actuation. My final step was going to be to remove the transmission, but I resolved the issues before it came to that.

You need to start at the shift knob and inspect, verify, and replace all parts until you get to the transmission levers. Same with clutch pedal to throw out bearing. Finally remove the trans if everything is verified to be within spec.

 

[Evo_3]

condition of the plastic shift pad

Everything looks fine and feels solid. I remove the cables, put it into 3rd or 4th then put the cables back on and once I throw it into neutral, with the shifter it won't allow me to go back into 3rd or 4th but soon as cables are off again it works by hand. So my only guess is stretched or worn cables.

 

[Evo_3]

I had a similar issue after buying a car and I had to walk through everything in logical order, verifying the parts were working correctly and that they were the correct parts.

I found numerous issues in the mechanical shifting area. I found numerous issues with the hydraulic actuation. My final step was going to be to remove the transmission, but I resolved the issues before it came to that.

You need to start at the shift knob and inspect, verify, and replace all parts until you get to the transmission levers. Same with clutch pedal to throw out bearing. Finally remove the trans if everything is verified to be within spec.

As I mentioned above, once I remove the shifter cables from the trans side, the gears work fine by hand. Soon as they're on 3rd and 4th don't go in. To me I think its the cables that's the issue. Can't think of anything else, will get new cables and see what happens

 

[danl]

Also check the cable ends at the transmission for corrosion, binding, and as previously mentioned obstructions as well as condition of the nylon slider. At the shifter in the car the bushings will need inspected (the 6 shifter ones and cable ends) and you will need to verify they are properly adjusted if applicable. Also t

Do the cables bind when disconnected from transmission shift arms? If not it could be any one or more of the above items.

 

[Evo_3]

Bit of a late one but finally found the issue. Removed the box and disassembled it to find the 3/4 detent ball was stuck, not allowing me to shift into the gears

 

[pauleyman]

I'm curious how this even happens. Shift rail should push the detent ball out easily. Could you elaborate on what you found for educational purposes?

 

[Evo_3]

I'm curious how this even happens. Shift rail should push the detent ball out easily. Could you elaborate on what you found for educational purposes?

The bearing plate where the detents go into, the 3/4 hole had been messed with (seems like with a screwdriver) and the ball bearing would get stuck. So we used a sandpaper with dremel and smoothed it out and it works as it should now. Everything else is in gearbox was perfectly fine