Engine Update #2 *WITH PICS*

[Daedalus]

I did some datalogging. 2nd gear pulls on a small deserted road. Couldnt do third as there wasnt enough space and the logger wasnt saving logs so I had to hold the logger, mash the throttle, and look at the logger and tach while trying not to hit anything.

Results:

Air Flow: Stock I remember this maxing at 99. At full throttle she goes all the way to 167!
O2v: Full throttle it stayed between .89-.91 from 2k to 7k (is this good?)
Timing: Seemed to stay around 24-26 not sure what this means though


At idle when it is "sticking" around 2-2.5k the isc reads 30 and when I blip the throttle and she settles down to around 1-1.5k it reads 0. ???????

I have some work to do here. Please help me diagnose these readout. I will try to get official readouts soon when the logger stops being ###.

 

[Thunderskull]

It looks like your timing and o2 values are fine. The airflow is nothing to worry about either. Those values on the ISC are a mess. Unfortunately, it doesn't tell you if the ISC is failing since the ISC doesn't send any input to the ECU. What your reading is the ECU trying to get the car to idle and it can't. Pull the ECU and check the caps to see if they're a mess. Also, test the idle switch. If it fails, or begins to fail. the car will do something close to what you're describing. If the idle position switch is busted, it will idle at different speeds in relation to airflow and fuel. It might also explain why your idle goes down after tapping the throttle. The datalogger should tell you whether the switch is turning on or off. Also, could the throttle cable be sticking? And, what does the throttle position sensor indicate during your idle problem? Still, I would pull the ISC and test the coils with a voltmeter. You never know, and failure of them is very common.

 

[Randomrage]

JDM Eclipse engine? I didnt know there was such a thing.

 

[Daedalus]

its actually a jdm galant engine.

I'll post up more idle info from the readouts tonight. Thanks for the suggestions!

*edit*

What parameter on logging software would show if the idle switch was fudged? TPS?

Is it normal with an intake to hear popping noises from the engine when the engine is decelerating from 7k?

 

[Randomrage]

its actually a jdm galant engine.

I'll post up more idle info from the readouts tonight. Thanks for the suggestions!

*edit*

What parameter on logging software would show if the idle switch was fudged? TPS?

Is it normal with an intake to hear popping noises from the engine when the engine is decelerating from 7k?

They made the Galant in Japan? Is there a turbo 4g63 JDM motor? What else did Japan get? Sorry for all the questions, this is all news to me.

 

[Thunderskull]

its actually a jdm galant engine.

I'll post up more idle info from the readouts tonight. Thanks for the suggestions!

*edit*

What parameter on logging software would show if the idle switch was fudged? TPS?

Is it normal with an intake to hear popping noises from the engine when the engine is decelerating from 7k?

No, popping noises aren't normal despite what others may tell you. A popping noise is indicative of an exhaust leak. I know this from experience. As for the parameter to look at with the idle position switch, there should be a parameter that indicates whether it's off or on. Also, tps sensor will help you because it will indicate how far the throttle is open which might point to a couple of problems especially if the throttle is open more than it should be at idle.

 

[Daedalus]

I probably do have an exhaust leak. The thing is 13 years old with the stock exhaust. I would be supreise if there wasnt a leak. But as long as there isnt any damage happening to the engine I have bigger fish to fry.

54 miles since picked up... Its getting a little faster. I can do a pretty decent 3rd gear scratch under acceleration.

 

[leakyfaucet]

I don't know why everyone is so against turbocharging. It's the easiest way to make real power, and is the single largest gain he can get without nitrous. Don't listen to the jealous people, do what you know is right.

 

[Thunderskull]

I think turbocharging is fine. I'm just curious how much can be done with a n/a 4g63. I think it's got a lot more potential than folks give it credit for. Besides, tons of folks turbocharge 4g63s or drive them factory turbocharged. Not many people go this route, and it will be nice to see how far he can go with it.

 

[leakyfaucet]

Not many people go this route, and it will be nice to see how far he can go with it.

So you're going to encourage him to spend more time and effort to try produce the same power as a turbocharger would give him right off the bat, just to satisfy your own curiosity?

 

[Daedalus]

I was just as curious. We all were. I did it just as much for this N/T community as I did for myself. That is why I am so torn as to what I should do. Right now, i'm gonna cool off and stop spending money on my car. I need to get some oil leaks stoped, the clutch master cylinder replaced, and the idle problems addressed. Hopefully I will have a daily driver for awhile before something else goes to hell.

Hopefully I will get a new job that will be able to support every single thing I have ever wanted to do to my car, and be able to pay for it all within 2 months .

I could finally upgrade my suspension brakes and tires, and I would love that.
- JIC FLT-A2's
- Baer Track Brakes w/stainless lines
- Racing Hart C5's

oooo i start slobering when I think of that. If only I had a good running engine...

Only time will tell.

 

[Mike1992]

I went to the track friday night and it totally destroyed my NA's aren't that slow dream I ran a best of 17.1 Screw this Im making a turbo kit

 

[Thunderskull]

I was just as curious. We all were. I did it just as much for this N/T community as I did for myself. That is why I am so torn as to what I should do. Right now, i'm gonna cool off and stop spending money on my car. I need to get some oil leaks stoped, the clutch master cylinder replaced, and the idle problems addressed. Hopefully I will have a daily driver for awhile before something else goes to hell.

Hopefully I will get a new job that will be able to support every single thing I have ever wanted to do to my car, and be able to pay for it all within 2 months .

I could finally upgrade my suspension brakes and tires, and I would love that.
- JIC FLT-A2's
- Baer Track Brakes w/stainless lines
- Racing Hart C5's

oooo i start slobering when I think of that. If only I had a good running engine...

Only time will tell.

I'd just do whatever makes you happy. Don't feel like you're doing it for the community. Just do whatever you feel challenges you. I plan on going the all motor n/t route myself just because I want to see how much power can be squeezed out of the n/t. I'll eventually buy a turbo awd, but for now I want to see what I can do with the n/t. I'd have bolted a turbo onto my car a long time ago, but I live in California and we have CARB and Smog checks. Plus, the highway patrol is getting crazy our here going after "imports". Keep in mind they don't pull over the guy in the 67 Camaro. Anyway, that's another thread for another day.

 

[Daedalus]

I went to the track friday night and it totally destroyed my NA's aren't that slow dream I ran a best of 17.1 Screw this Im making a turbo kit

Allmost went to the track on fri. I didnt; and saved myself the embarassment. Plus, my new clutch shouldnt be beaten on until its broken in, and our track is only 1/8 mile...

 

[Daedalus]

Allright. Went to transonic today after a spirited 50 mile drive on the backroad highways of nebraska.

They had been doing some research on possible options for me. They came up with one all motor alternative that no one has ever tried (that I know of). Its simple (compared to turbo'ing), and a hell of a lot more cost effective.

Getting a galant SOHC 2.4 engine. Swapping the bottom end onto a 4G63 head (my spare from my old engine). The end result? A 2.3l stroker with 11:0:1 compression. Thats right! The pistons and block when coupled with a 4G63 head give you 11:1 COMPRESSION!!!

Oh yea... I forgot to tell you. We can get two '94 galant 2.4l engines (one for me and one for my buddies turbo setup) for 600.00. So that means I get a complete engine for 300.00 and all I have to do is build it with the spare parts I have laying around.

I am leaning towards this options because it will leave me money to still get my head ported and polished, and my exhaust fabricated, and the car tuned. Not to mention the money left over can get me my JIC coilovers .

I would like to hear your opinions on this setup. I think it should flow enough air to put the manifold to use, and give me a hell of a lot more torque.

WHAT DO YA THINK?

 

[Mike1992]

Its all up to you, but Im done with NA, Im saving $$$ to purchase a complete parts car fromt he junkyard to do a turbo conversion.

 

[Talonracer06]

just a quick question, what brand/ model # is that air filter? and where did u get the rest of the intake(pipe) ?

 

[Daedalus]

Thats an injen intake pipe and filter. I wanted red, they gave me blue... i'm pissed.

You can get them for about 191 bucks from extreme motorsports. Sounds like a mother F8cker though... i mean that in a good way.

 

[Rogue_Ant]

Getting a galant SOHC 2.4 engine. Swapping the bottom end onto a 4G63 head (my spare from my old engine). The end result? A 2.3l stroker with 11:0:1 compression. Thats right! The pistons and block when coupled with a 4G63 head give you 11:1 COMPRESSION!!!

WHAT DO YA THINK?

I think that you need to do more research.... A 4G64 block with a DOHC head does not make a 2.3L.... It is still a 2.4.
And I seriously doubt that it equates to 11.0-1 CR. I find it _very_ hard to belive that a twin cam head has that much less combustion chamber volume then the SOHC....



Rogue

 

[Rogue_Ant]

6 psi is like max on NA stock internals, i thought abouu it to, but why run 6psi when ya can just swap in different pistons and rings and go with a full turbo setup ya know?

Wrong, its all on making sure your not knocking. I'm running 11psi in my G/Fs car (91 NT) with-out a hitch.



Rogue

 

[Rogue_Ant]

It almost sounds to me like your cam timing is off. I would recheck it if I was you.


Rogue

 

[Mike1992]

Wrong, its all on making sure your not knocking. I'm running 11psi in my G/Fs car (91 NT) with-out a hitch.



Rogue

Thats goos to here! So I just need to get me a logger alon with when I do this, no nock is ideal right? And the nock sensor will screw into teh NT block right?

 

[Daedalus]

Rouge this is all off of someguys turbo project. He tried to turbo it, but the CR was way to high, he said around 11:1. I will try and get you the source so you can see for yourself.

 

[Rogue_Ant]

Thats goos to here! So I just need to get me a logger alon with when I do this, no nock is ideal right? And the nock sensor will screw into teh NT block right?

Correct, no knock is ideal. Make sure you use a new sensor, and if necessary pull a couple of degrees of timing @ the CAS. There should be atleast one spot to screw the sensor in, I alwayse put it as low as possible.



Rogue

 

[Rogue_Ant]

Rouge this is all off of someguys turbo project. He tried to turbo it, but the CR was way to high, he said around 11:1. I will try and get you the source so you can see for yourself.

11-1? Yeah that is a little high... I stuck with the 9-1 (regular NT) and did a basic rebuild, total-seal rings, clevite bearings, no balance-shafts, 91Tsi cams, ect.



Rogue