2G Engine primed fine, but no oil pressure on start up

[pooonpower]

Guys I'm at a lost. Engine was put back together in the car, long and difficult road to this point. Its a fresh build, new oil pump, all the bearings within spec, not building for huge horsepower here.
The tuner had trouble priming the car, but eventually got her primed after a bunch of fiddling around and cranking with the starter. The oil pressure light on the dash is off, and the mechanical oil pressure gauge at the head read pressure.
Then when he starts it, he says there is no pressure. The oil light remained on, and the mechanical gauge doesn't read anything.
WHAT IS GOING ON??????

 

[DSMPT]

Assuming what your mechanic mentioned is true, could be the oil pressure relief valve or/and oil jet (squirter) check valves got stuck (or maybe don't slide smoothly), and then being wide open. And if you eliminated the balance shafts, also should make sure if the oil holes for the shafts are surely blocked off.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Gotta agree. Don't no the builder but those are exactly what your gonna need to check now.
And DON'T START IT AGAIN.
Trying to save as much as possible.
How much oil pressure was verified and it reads zero now? Plz dont turn it over any more. Did you put the pick up tube gasket on and tighten it down?
Things that have to be asked, sorry.
Is this a 2g or a 6 bolt swap? 6 bolts have bolt in squirters, 7s dont, they are built in. Balance shaft bearings would have to have been installed 90* out to block open holes if the balance shafts have been removed. I'm right there on a 7 bolt build.

 

[motomattx]

Actually if you used assembly lube you should be good to start it for a few seconds, I have had to start mine a few times to get an oil pressure reading on them on fresh assemblies, likely there is air that needs to bleed out of the system, you could add an oil accumulator to add oil to all of the assemblies that need it if you want to or just force oil into the engine through one of the oil ports using some type of makeshift oil bottle and air behind it if you wanted, but its likely getting oil to the bottom end and just isn't reading it yet, that's why you use good assembly lube, but who knows for sure and I dont want to say its just fine if there is something wrong, when I assemble things I know that they are ready to go and capable, I cant vouch for anyone else's work so if you know for an absolute fact that everything is perfect you might want to run it for a few more seconds to see if it makes pressure, if your not sure then pull the timing belt and put a drill on the oil pump shaft and spin it with the valve cover off until you see oil in the head just to make sure its capable of making pressure.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Thanks @motomattx . I ALWAYS use assembly lube, I mean, thats what its for and it DOES provide added protection as said.
I prime mine by having assembly lube in the pump gears and spin it over with no sparkplugs in it until the oil light goes off. If it doesn't then I stop and inspect. Hell I still have a mechanical oil pressure guage in my auto car until its done. Just my preference and everyone has they're way.
I like everyone's opinion and experience!

 

[motomattx]

Its usually a good idea to pack the oil pump during assembly with grease of some type, not a ton of it but a good coating on everything and a little in the cavities in between, this will cause it to build pressure faster even.

 

[pooonpower]

Another reason why I like to post here instead of FB. Tons of good advice and suggestions here, and I will address them all.

Car is a 1997 Evo 4 with an Evo 5 engine, so it has bolt in oil squirters. I was personally with the builder throughout the whole build, so I remember whats been done. the whole engine was rebuilt due to oil starvation/contamination, and the necessary parts were replaced including: new crank, new rods, new bearings, new oil pump, and new lifters. Oil cooler was deleted for break in and tuning purposes.

- The squirters were cleaned with both brake clean and compressed air to make sure the ball valve inside was working properly.
- The balance shafts were removed, OEM stubby shaft installed, and the bearings adjusted to cover off the holes.
- brand new pick up tube gasket was put on and torqued
- the pump was brand new OEM, and since the pump had to be disassembled to put that stubby shaft in, it was packed with grease as well
- the OFH was disassembled, cleaned both the thermostat and the pressure relief valve, then reassembled to make sure the relief valve was smooth

The pump did take a while for it to prime, but once he took off the spark plugs and used the starter to crank it, it slowly built pressure. The turbo is fed off of the OFH, and the mechanical oil pressure gauge is fed off of the head, where the OEM feed to the turbo was. I can't cant say what the reading of the pressure was as I wasn't there, but the oil light went off, so I assume it's more than 5psi or so.

I am stumped that it can prime and oil can reach alllll the way to the last place of the head, which is the turbo feed line on the head, but yet theres no oil on start up??

 

[pooonpower]

Actually if you used assembly lube you should be good to start it for a few seconds, I have had to start mine a few times to get an oil pressure reading on them on fresh assemblies, likely there is air that needs to bleed out of the system, you could add an oil accumulator to add oil to all of the assemblies that need it if you want to or just force oil into the engine through one of the oil ports using some type of makeshift oil bottle and air behind it if you wanted, but its likely getting oil to the bottom end and just isn't reading it yet, that's why you use good assembly lube, but who knows for sure and I dont want to say its just fine if there is something wrong, when I assemble things I know that they are ready to go and capable, I cant vouch for anyone else's work so if you know for an absolute fact that everything is perfect you might want to run it for a few more seconds to see if it makes pressure, if your not sure then pull the timing belt and put a drill on the oil pump shaft and spin it with the valve cover off until you see oil in the head just to make sure its capable of making pressure.

Now I don't know how long the tuner kept the car running for, maybe it was just a few seconds and not long enough for the car to build pressure on this new build. But then once the system is primed, shouldn't oil pressure build right away??

 

[curt-s]

assembly lube in the pump at first start is good, at least a film is needed. I mean, your pump is generally empty after letting it sit for a year yet will still build pressure after 1-1.5 seconds. As said, can always take the timing belt off and prime with a drill. A standard 18v cordless with a socket adapter in high torque setting builds a lot of pressure after a few seconds and will fire oil out of the lash adjusters.. thats what I generally do every season anyway when I check the tensioner.

I primed once in the opposite direction using a transfer pump... never again.

*edit* started writing before later posts.. not sure if anything above helps.

 

[motomattx]

Now I don't know how long the tuner kept the car running for, maybe it was just a few seconds and not long enough for the car to build pressure on this new build. But then once the system is primed, shouldn't oil pressure build right away??

Oil pressure probably is building, just not showing on the gauge with air in the system, even on a running car it takes a few seconds of running to build pressure.

 

[DSMPT]

Now I don't know how long the tuner kept the car running for, maybe it was just a few seconds and not long enough for the car to build pressure on this new build. But then once the system is primed, shouldn't oil pressure build right away??

Nobody can be 100% sure if the bearings are ok or not. But since this is a new build, anyway you will need to change the oil very soon. When you change the oil, just cut the oil filter open and make sure there is no sign of damaged bearings. Hope everything is fine.
Did you ask your mechanic if he poured oil into the external oil cooler before installing? If he didn't, that could have caused some air remained.

 

[pooonpower]

Oil pressure probably is building, just not showing on the gauge with air in the system, even on a running car it takes a few seconds of running to build pressure.

I guess I'm looking for the most optimistic advice and yours seem to make me happy. The truth is that I don't know if the engine is still ok. But I'll have to ask him how long he's had the engine running for before he shut it down. I hope the answer is less than a few seconds.

 

[pooonpower]

Nobody can be 100% sure if the bearings are ok or not. But since this is a new build, anyway you will need to change the oil very soon. When you change the oil, just cut the oil filter open and make sure there is no sign of damaged bearings. Hope everything is fine.
Did you ask your mechanic if he poured oil into the external oil cooler before installing? If he didn't, that could have caused some air remained.

No the oil cooler has been deleted just to get the car dialed in.

 

[pooonpower]

Oil pressure probably is building, just not showing on the gauge with air in the system, even on a running car it takes a few seconds of running to build pressure.

So I got a bit of good news motomattx. The tuner says he only ran the car for a second or two before shutting down cus the oil light wasn't going off and the gauge at the head wasn't reading pressure. I asked him to relocate the pressure gauge to the OFH to confirm oil at that point. If there is oil at that point while running, then I assume the rest of the engine will have oil too since we primed it successfully.

Is it because the oil pressure sender is all the way on the opposite end of the block that causes a delay in response?