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2G Engine issues?

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97gsxmod

Proven Member
99
27
Dec 30, 2023
New haven, Connecticut
(Continued from https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/starting-issues-with-new-to-me-modded-gsx.545572/)

Had a blown turbo that was burning oil. Replaced it and then on startup oil filter popped loose and drained all the oil while I was trying to rev the car to keep it at running (would turn off if I didn’t rev it a little on start up).

Assume the loss of oil and pressure blew f***ed my freshly built turbo but was having trouble starting the engine as well.

So I just did compression tests. Number are 130-140-140-150 on a dry test with a cold engine. These numbers don’t seem great but don’t seem bad enough to explain the engine not starting. However when pulling plugs for the test I noticed they are all black and I just put fresh ones in a month ago and only moved the car to the road then back to the drive way. Must be from the old turbo?

Had trouble starting before and I replaced the plugs and it started right up, so I’m going to try to clean these and see if it will start. But the last factor my brain in considering is the build sheet for this car said it had 1200cc injectors, this seems crazy big? Maybe that’s part of the reason I’m destroying spark plugs so quick and even with fresh ones I have to get it reving a little before it will stay at idle. Any information is greatly appreciated.

Also forgot to mention I spun the new but most likely destroyed turbo by hand to make sure this wasn’t causing the no start. It spins though, so I'm assuming its not related to my starting issues but maybe I should try cracking the intercooler to intake tube to insure it’s able to breath with the turbo?

It still spun but seemed to spin slower then when it was freshly built prior to lose of oil after install.
 
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OK Good work. I've looked at the ECU config, and will note the items that look incorrect based on the picture of your engine bay.
Got everything switch up besides the ECU inputs, still working on that. I know my back O2 sensor isn't connected to the exhaust and is just hanging back there so I assume that's why its locked?

Have to get the car jacked up to double check but I think I have a wide band and stock O2 sensor for the front. But the one I believe to be the stock 02 sensor is currently not connected to the exhaust either, just the one I think is a wide band is connected. I'll figure out what ones O2 and what ones wideband as soon as I get the car jacked up.

Thanks again man!!!

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Looks like an OEM narrowband O2?

And an OEM manifold differential pressure sensor? So I’d leave manifold pressure (MAP) undefined in ECU inputs, and leave wideband undefined as well?

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And an oem manifold pressure differential? So I’d leave manifold pressure (map) undefined in ecu inputs, and leave wideband Undefined as well?
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That MDP sensor pictured is the one most people disable, or replace for a MAP sensor.

MDP is used during EGR diagnostic tests in the ECU. Its purpose is sense a difference in the manifold pressure depending on if the EGR is open or closed. It is needed if you are doing emissions testing with a 96+ SMOG check where OBDII compliance checks in the ECU are needed to pass.

As far as what to configure in ECMLink, you need to define what sensor is connected. If the MDP sensor is connected, leave it as Factory/None. If you use the wires connected the ecu to connect a MAP sensor, then you would set the kind of MAP sensor that is wired up.

Same with O2. If you have a stock O2 connected to the ECU, use Factory/None. If you change the wires and connect a Wideband, then you tell the ECU what kind of Wideband.
 
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Thanks 🙏
Just programmed the new ecu configurations to the car. Didn’t get it to start but the starter sounded weak so giving it a charge and trying it again soon. I can hear that the fans not always running anymore when the key is in the power on position so at least I know the ecu took the programming. Appreciate all the help!

No luck on the starting attempt. I could smell fuel and got a few pops. Going to try cleaning my spark plugs again even tho I just cleaned them last week. I always get the closed to starting with freshly cleaned plugs and have had success with that in the past. Might have a bad ground to my battery or bad connection as well but it cranks over fine when completely charged.

I’m wondering if a leak where the exhaust manifold is bolted to the head could cause starting issues? Thought it would potentially cause a rough idol but not sure if it could be apart of my current issue. Have a few bolts to replace on mine but planned on doing that and some leak tests after I started the car.

Lastly I plan on checking the intercooler and air intake for oil from the old blown turbo because maybe that’s an issue as well? Would probably explain my spark plugs getting filthy from starting the car a few times in the driveway


But after that I’m not sure what I should be checking next?
 
Post up your latest log - Try and have some cranking engine start attempts in it.
Cracked exhaust won't affect the start - but it will have a performance hit - slower spool time, and in the case of an open down pipe or huge leak, it may affect the 02 readings
 
Double check the firing order.
 
new log with with corrected ecu adjustments and starting attempts. first one she started and after that mostly just got some cranks

is the timing supposed to be jumping all around like that?
 

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  • starting log.elg
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is the timing supposed to be jumping all around like that?
Ah well there are a few things we should add to the logged values - like Battery:
Attached is what a cold start on mine looks like - Keep in mind this is a SD setup, not MAF - Consider the list of captured values in here. I'm running a 2G ECU, same as you. 1G and 2G will differ slightly BTW in case you are looking at logs from others.

Try cracking open the throttle, Maybe you did 1%? especially after it fires, try to hold 2K until it keeps itself running.
 

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  • log.2024.02.21-04.elg
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Ah well there are a few things we should add to the logged values - like Battery:
Attached is what a cold start on mine looks like - Keep in mind this is a SD setup, not MAF - Consider the list of captured values in here. I'm also running a 2G ECU. 1G and 2G will differ slightly BTW in case you are looking at logs from others.
I think I fixed a few errors I had in the ECU settings, but I have a feeling your suggestion to crack the throttle open might be related to the issue. In the past when it did start it wanted to be throttled a little, but when I start it now and give it gas it won't climb in RPM and just dies on me. I also feel like it might be somehow related to me loosing all my oil after the turbo install because it started and rev'ed to like 3000 RPM no problem and was running for about a minute before i could hear my engine and turbo sounding rough and cut it off.

I don't know what this could be? Maybe new turbos blown from oil loss on start up and now its dumping fresh oil into the intake?

I'll check it out tomorrow, but I'm starting to understand why people hate these cars :ohdamn:. thanks for all the help! I'll let you know if I'm ever able to get her going.
 

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  • starting log new data.ecm
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Maybe it's time to replace the coolant temp sensor with new? The intake temp is 3°C but the coolant temp is minus 9°C. Maybe ECU is sending too much fuel and causing the hard start and the wet spark plugs?
Thanks. It was cold out so the 3c is probably accurate, but the minus 9c must be off. I’ll see if I can lock the coolant temp in the ecu and give it a try
 
Thanks. It was cold out so the 3c is probably accurate, but the minus 9c must be off. I’ll see if I can lock the coolant temp in the ecu and give it a try
When you have a faulty coolant temp sensor, you would have a hard start or no start.
 
The next place I want you to start poking around is in the "Direct access" tables.
This is where you will find Timing and AFR targets. Many of these tables, including "Coolant Temp Fuel adjust" have been modified. I'm guessing at this point, you may want to revert these to the stock values.- Rt-click on the table, and "Toggle Stock Values". You can see how different some of these are from 2G defaults.

Given how cold it is there - maybe try and old school trick and heat up the plugs with a lighter.
 
damnit … that’s would have been a easy fix, thought I saw it was lockable in the ecu LOL
Actually I would be worried more about bearings and cam journals. I don't know exactly how long and how high the engine ran, but you could have run it dry or without oil pressure for some time. So if I were you, at least I would remove the valve cover to check the cam journal condition by removing the cam caps the ones around below oil filler cap. That's where you would lose the oil and pressure first.
 
Actually I would be worried more about bearings and cam journals. I don't know exactly how long and how high the engine ran, but you could have run it dry or without oil pressure for some time.
My oil filter didn't pop off completely so hoping it still had some pressure but was leaking enough to dump all the oil in the about a minute span that i had it running. but thanks ill check that out tomorrow.

The next place I want you to start poking around is in the "Direct access" tables.
This is where you will find Timing and AFR targets. Many of these tables, including "Coolant Temp Fuel adjust" have been modified. I'm guessing at this point, you may want to revert these to the stock values.- Rt-click on the table, and "Toggle Stock Values". You can see how different some of these are from 2G defaults.
I’m not sure what my intake cam size is but supposedly it’s a Behive? The exhaust cam is supposedly a 272 Kelford. I’m not sure if this is why the timing values were altered. But I’ll give the newest settings a try tomorrow and see what happens. After that I’ll check the intercooler for oil, and if that doesn’t do it I’ll remove the valve cover and check out the cams.

The other theory I have is I might have a bad battery connection causing some weird issues. My voltage gauge always reads lower than when I test the battery directly with a voltage meter, usually by about one volt.
 

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  • newest startlog.eda
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my oil filter didnt pop off completely so hopping it still had some pressure but was leaking enough to dump all the oil in the about a minute span that i had it running. but thanks ill check that out tomorrow
This is just for in case, hope nothing happened.
 
The last two files haven't been log files but just the settings. .ecm files are just the base settings and .eda are just the direct maps. Logs are .elg files which is what we usually want to see.
 
This is just for in case, hope nothing happened.
I think this is the issue. Never had starting troubles like this before the oil pressure loss incident. Checked everything else, even tried locking the coolant temps and air temp, don’t know.

Anyone know a DSM mechanic in the northeast? I’m like 40 plus hours in and still can’t get this thing started, getting a little ridiculous over here
 
Beehive is a kind of EVO valve spring which is an upgrade for DSMs. Is that what you are referring to?

Try again with a log with more of the log-able values enabled including battery.

Global dead time is another value we should look up for those injectors. I dunno if 50 is rich or lean - and please confirm your base fuel pressure.
 
Beehive is a kind of EVO valve spring which is an upgrade for DSMs. Is that what you are referring to?

Try again with a log with more of the log-able values enabled including battery.

Global dead time is another value we should look up for those injectors. I dunno if 50 is rich or lean - and please confirm your base fuel pressure.
Base fuel pressure is at 42 , was at 50 but i adjusted it today

Beehive is a kind of EVO valve spring which is an upgrade for DSMs. Is that what you are referring to?

Try again with a log with more of the log-able values enabled including battery.

Global dead time is another value we should look up for those injectors. I dunno if 50 is rich or lean - and please confirm your base fuel pressure.
Yea i was mistaken thanks. Behive was on the listing thought they were the intake cam because they were listed right before the kelford 272 exhaust cams . But guessing the intake cam is stock

Beehive is a kind of EVO valve spring which is an upgrade for DSMs. Is that what you are referring to?

Try again with a log with more of the log-able values enabled including battery.

Global dead time is another value we should look up for those injectors. I dunno if 50 is rich or lean - and please confirm your base fuel pressure.
I really think it’s something to do with the loss of oil. Either with the engine and cams or maybe to turbo doesn’t let enough air past it for the car to start since the bearings are damaged from oil loss? Even tho i did check and spin It by hand and it rotates so idk
 
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