E85 v. Pump gas on 15 or More boost

[emoguitarboy]

Hey, I just got my car fixed...man I'm gonna miss my CEL

So I was wondering what I would get better performance out of up here. Here's what I'm working with:

660 Denso's
SAFC

I need a logger, I can't remember what the same of the Open source logger is. (help?)

So I was wondering if I should run E85 on 15PSI from my T28 or should I turn up the boost (if so, how much)

I was looking at the compressor map and I think I'm right in the top of middle bubble when running in the springs.

Here's the map: http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n164/emoguitarboy/map.gif

Here's my calculations for 6000 ft @ 11.8 Atmospheric pressure:
PSI P/R
22 2.86
21 2.78
20 2.69
19 2.61
18 2.53
17 2.44
16 2.36
15 2.27
14 2.19
13 2.10
12 2.02
11 1.93
10 1.85
9 1.76
8 1.68
7 1.59
6 1.51
5 1.42


From the bottom of the map to the top.

 

[emoguitarboy]

Too advanced for the newb forum?

 

[jc 340]

You need a logger to determine the amount of boost that is safe for your setup.

 

[vexixx]

just wondering why you want to run e-85?

 

[tkelly27]

E-85 doesn't have more power inherent in the fuel. The benefit to it is that because of it's slower burning and higher octane you can run higher boost levels, or higher compression ratios with the same boost levels which will give you more power. So if you're planning on going to E-85 the answer is both, not one or the other.

You'll need more fueling, you'll be able to search the forums to find out how much.

Furthermore, you need to know how much air you're pushing to have an accurate guess at your efficiency. That's a T3 compressor map, not a T28, even if it was, you don't know your airflow so it's still useless. Being on or off an efficiency map has nothing to do with switching fuels either. Well, it might, if you're so far off that you need to switch fuels because your turbo is just spitting out hot air...

Don't bump, it's clearly not too advanced for the newb forum, and it's things you would have found easily by searching.

 

[oldman420]

E85 on 660's is crazy dude. Look into meth/water injection and turn up your boost. Leave the e85 to the pros.

 

[emoguitarboy]

E85 is supposed to perform better than pump gas (from what I've heard) more like race gas and it has less chance of detonating on high boost. I will eventually be running it, I'm just trying to see if I should build my car on E85 or Build it on pump and then re-tune when the time comes.

I need a logger, I can't remember what the same of the Open source logger is. (help?)

You need a logger to determine the amount of boost that is safe for your setup.

Noted, and I'd have to test it first, I'm asking if you guys think I should tune on E85 or bigger boost.

Don't bump, it's clearly not too advanced for the newb forum, and it's things you would have found easily by searching.

I wasn't bumping, usually bumping is something that irrelevant. I was asking if I should move the question to a more advanced forum where people who have done this will check. I was more asking in a direct comparison to my setup FP T28 (Garrett T2560) the compressor map is one that the guy who had it before me (running an E85 setup) sent me. It's what he used to do his calculations on, and he said it was the same...BTW he wasn't a "pro" per-say.

 

[projecTSI]

Your injectors are too small to run E85. I believe you need to run ~30% larger injectors to run E85 than what you would to run pump gas.

 

[tkelly27]

MMCD is the free logger.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/search.php?searchid=3565169

"Noted, and I'd have to test it first, I'm asking if you guys think I should tune on E85 or bigger boost."

did you read my post? They are not mutually exclusive, they go together! So you can either run higher octane regular gas, or E-85. Without a logger you don't know if you need either. Just putting E-85 in your car without turning up the boost will not give you more power. E-85 has a higher octane which allows more boost which will give you more power. Again, there's no extra power to be gained by just switching fuels.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194742&highlight=T28+pump+gas
In that thread you can see what people have done with pump gas and E-85 and make your own decision. I don't think a T28 would warrant E-85 unless you wanted to wring the most you possibly could out of it. Post #4 has a guy running 12.9's with 20psi on pump gas. You could also PM any of those people, I'm sure they'd help. The question of weather to switch to E-85 would likely be one of weather or not you want to switch to a significantly bigger turbo or not.

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/dis...hiclesCommonProtege&sectionParameter=session2

if you had searched for "T28 map" you would have found that at the bottom of the page there is a compressor map that's closer to what you want. It's hard to read, but it's for a T28, not a T3.

You still don't have a flow rate. If you're (god forbid) pushing 40lb/min you're going to be well off the chart. A logger will give you a good guess at your flow rate. It still doesn't matter what efficiency curve you're in. That's mostly used to determine when you need a new turbo.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/search.php?searchid=3565114
amazing, 27 responses, did you look through them?

Bumping is when you reply to your own post to bring it to the top. It's not allowed.

Sorry for being a jerk, but these questions have all been answered before.

 

[emoguitarboy]

Thanks those are great, i'll look them over and then post what I find for the next person comming along to ask a similar question.

Plus usually when I do searches I don't have much luck...and I searched the more boost v E85

I do understand that E85 allows you to push more boost than 91, but I was asking about it for the equipment that I have if it would be worth it (all nighns point to "NO" toquote the magic 8-ball) so I'll just go tune it for as much boost that I can with the logger, if my brother can find his.

 

[oldman420]

seriously though, with bigger injectors look into meth injection. Devil's own sells a cheap kit and it will allow you to push more boost safer on 91 octane, make sure you also check to see if you guys have 94 at the pumps anywhere down there. In Canada we have a serperate pump for 94 at some stations, you pay an arm and a leg but it's worth it.

 

[daren_p]

If your trying to max out your current injectors, you are going to want to run reg pump gas. Like was mentioned, E85 won't net you more power, it just allows you to safely run more boost because of its higher octane rating. Also like was mentioned it takes about 30% more E85 so you would actually be limited to running less boost if you ran E85. Seems most run 1000cc & larger injectors if they want to run E85. Looks like your on the right track now, get the logger & see how much boost you can actualy run. Plotting it out on a compressor map is always nice to get an idea of if the turbo is suited for your goals/application but looks like you have the wrong compressor map & the T28 is a common DSM upgrade, so you should easily be able to find its limits based on other users experiences, with abit of searching.

 

[emoguitarboy]

There was a gas station that was pumping 95, but they switched it out for E85... And I know there's a place around here that sells race gas, but 5-7 bucks a galon to get to work and back that much quicker doesn't really appeal to me

But the rest of the places are all running 91

 

[SonySlave]

You can run E-85 no problem. However, if you plan on running E-85 on those 660cc injectors on that T-28, 15psi is going to be pushing it for sure before you start running out of fuel. The E-85 will allow you to run higher boost levels and run a lot more timing than pump gas due to its 105 octane rating. However, as was said, you need about 37% MORE fuel to get the same a/f ratio that you get on pump gas. If you want to run 15psi on the T-28 with E-85, I would personally buy 850s and a Walbro 255 since you will need the pump to feed those big injectors and you can lean out the S-AFC to compensate for the injectors. And 850s will allow you to turn the boost up even more than 15psi. The E-85 will love the additional timing that you will get due to leaning out the S-AFC. And all of the problems with the S-AFC having problems tuning past 650s will disappear due to more fuel being needed. Therefore, you won't have to lean it out as much on the S-AFC! But get a wideband and datalogger before you start!

 

[matthewdesigns]

There was a gas station that was pumping 95, but they switched it out for E85... And I know there's a place around here that sells race gas, but 5-7 bucks a galon to get to work and back that much quicker doesn't really appeal to me

But the rest of the places are all running 91

Chief Petroleum on S. 10th sells 112 octane leaded for $4.55/gal. You don't have a cat do you? If no, grab a 5 gallon can and go get some. It's fun for kicks. Don't run it for day to day driving! Definitely too expensive that way. Just run the tank down to an 1/8th or less during the week, and then dump in 5 gals of 112. It'll bump you up to 100+ for the weekend, and you'll be able to use those injectors and SAFC better than you will on an E85 mix.

I've decided to just tune for pump 91. It's everywhere. I tried the E85 mix thing and it gets to be a PITA to go from pump to pump to make the mix, and if you go out of town/away from E85, you won't be running at your best tune anymore.