Alternative Fuel E85 Ethanol Corn Gas E70 (Beginner) [MERGED]

[311GSX]

THIS WILL BE RESERVED FOR BEGINNER E85 QUESTIONS, FOR TUNERS THAT HAVE NEVER HEARD OF RUNNING IT OR HAVEN'T RESEARCHED IT YET. THE ADVANCED E85 THREAD IS HERE FOR THE MORE ADVANCED QUESTIONS ---> http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/372386-alternative-fuel-e85-ethanol-corn-gas-e70-advanced-merged.html

HOPEFULLY THIS WILL MAKE THE BASIC E85 INFORMATION MORE CENTRALIZED AND EASIER TO FIND FOR THE DSM'rs WHO ARE JUST GETTING THEIR NOSE WET AND ARE UNSURE OF WHAT E85 IS.

THANKS,

GOFER

__________________________________________________​

Has anyone tryed running E85 in their dsm? Their is a station in my area that sells it and it's not much more than regular gas. It is 85% ethanol and 15% gas and is 110 octane . It could be a cheap alternative to race gas.

 

[mochilli]

i posted this earlier: but no1 answered...

me and my bro are going to install my intercooler kit within the next two weeks: i have the FMIC and an universal intercooler piping kit (both bought separate off ebay):

1 Set - Mandrel-bent Aluminum Polished 3" pipes (1/16" thickness, total length of 18")
2 Pieces - 90 Degrees Mandrel-bent Pipes
2 Pieces - 75 Degrees Mandrel-bent Pipes
2 Pieces - 45 Degrees Mandrel-bent Pipes
8 Pieces - Racing Blue Straight Couplers ~
2 Pieces - Racing Blue 90 Degree Elbows Couplers

LINK:
eBay Motors: Universal 3" Blue Intercooler Turbo Aluminum Piping Kit (item 270235587990 end time May-14-08 18:30:00 PDT)

i heard i am going to have to do a long route and bend/cut some pipes. What does a long route entail? where will the piping be going so i have a good idea before i start this whole thing i have 3" piping, some people say thats a lil big, but will it not still work? Will the bumper get in the way when i want to reinstall it after? will i have to put anything into the actual piping? (sensors, etc). i am only 8 months into learning about DSM's and this will be my first major project....my bro is a 3rd year mechanic apprentice, so he'll be able to do alot (i hope) and i know where i can get the pipes bent/cut/welded, i just gotta find out the angles. If anyone has links to instructions or even better picture instructions, i would greatly appreciated it. Thanks

As soon as someone answers me, i will post pics of my attempt to install my FMIC, wish me luck!

P.S anyone else use the universal intercooler piping on their DSM?

 

[talon187]

alright the differnce in mileage good or bad? im only geting 200 to the tank as of right now...

 

[the_mork]

Obviously you don't watch the news or you're only 15 and don't have a memory that reaches back more than about 6 months, there is a huge amount of oil under Alaska that EVERYONE that drills oil would like to drill into and if you had gotten the reference to the national wildlife reserve up there you would know that we are talking about an area that is well into the arctic circle that literally almost no one has ever gone to, and don't underestimate nature, 15-20 years after we are done taking all the oil it will be next to impossible to tell that anyone was ever there. As far as refinery problems, the reason that we have no new refineries comes from environmental regulations that have made them next to illegal and extremely cost prohibitive besides.

Oh and when we talk about people being killed over oil fields, ethanol doesn't solve that sort of problem, someday the same killing will happen over corn fields as a process of limited resources there will always be strife and energy and food will always be the sort of thing that people will kill for.

One last thing, I've never heard of "Brizil" but if you decide to live there send me a postcard of their highly refined infrastructure and exceptionally wealthy population.

 

[PIMking]

My question is. What all do you need to run E85?

 

[JayRolla]

I have gotten 200 miles on my second tank. About 175 on the first because I was doing a lot of 3rd gear runs for tuning.

 

[Burnett03]

IMO a safc has no business running e-85.

 

[talon187]

well some people are and im not running just a safc but i wont be running it for much longer anyway

 

[JayRolla]

IMO a safc has no business running e-85.

I dont see an issue. Im running an safc with e85 and no issue at all. I'm not even getting more timing than I did before pump gas. People that have issues with the safc are just running the wrong fuel IMO, .

 

[MY1GDSM]

First of all
How is it cost prohibitive?
Take Exxon Mobil for Example they made history in January by reporting the highest quarterly and annual profits ever for a U.S. company
They made 11.66 billion in the last quarter of 2007...and $40.61 billion last year - or nearly $1,300 per second in 2007
PLEASE tell me how it would BE?.....


Um.. also Telling me I'm 15 because I don't have your views about something only points out that you know your wrong.... Rather then come back sayin I'm Wrong. Because you know I'm not!....NO You just spell check me

AGIAN I'VE BEEN THERE "arctic circle" and all, Almost Does NOT count

But the reson we won't has nothing to do with The Environment It has to do with Sitting on Our oil till we Tap out everone else's I.E. AGAIN MORE PROFIT

O and the Day that people are killed over corn ....I want to see that... Ethanol Is not Buy any means in OUR country a Sustainable Source of Fuel.... At Least NOT for Everyone Using gas here now

BRAZIL Makes ethanol with Sugar Cane that Grows year round and does not require the WATER that Corn does, which makes Corn based Ethanol Cost as much as it does here (I.E IT'S Goverment Subsidized and the Still Jokes) You need to realize That MY point is that WE the DSM comunity What to use it not to Stop using GAS or OIL but for the OCTANE of it...........

My question is. What all do you need to run E85?

Most cars after 1988 were made to run on at least 10% ethanol
FI cars are better at it, But in most cases with proper control of you fuel delivery there's no Problems BUT IT IS (buy some) recomended to Change to E85 "Safe" Fuel pump,lines and Filter and fuel rail. And you need LARGE injectors Your best place to get info on using E85 in a NON Flex fuel Cars is most likely Subie Forms Try North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Many People Have been Using Ethanol on there for Years With out changing lines and what not......... PM me if you have any Q's I'll try to help as much as posiable
Just don't fill'r up without Knowing what all is involved

 

[Turbo-addicted]

So I don't even have the car running w/ gas after all the changes I made on it and I already changed my fuel mods again... All because I was by hallandale beach blv and I saw the first pump w/ E85... It's a Ugas on 990 W Hallandale beach blv. So here is what I'm changing for the new E85 set up: AEM EMS instead of AFC NEO, (I had that for the Talon... it will wait) A wide band O2 to help tuning, 950cc ball style injectors instead of the 550cc, The pump will still be the same 255 HP rewired wich I'm hoping that's gonna be enough, and correct me if I'm wrong but I still wanna use the water/meth injection for cooling and to hep out fuel supply at high boost. I'm still using the E316G and all other parts listed on my profile. I'm not planing on more than 400HP wich is where I should be w/ this set up... Now comes the questions...
Should I still use the OEM fuel filter?
Should I upgrade the fuel rail? ( I have ss lines that came on the FPR kit but nothing else)
Where should I take it to tune and dyno it? ( I live in Hallandale now )


Any help will be greatly appreciated !

 

[jrohner]

Your fuel pump, filter, and lines will be fine. 950cc injectors should be great because you'll have a lot of room for more power. 750cc injectors can break 400whp on e85.

I started out tuning my 1g talon on e85 using the stock fuel pump & 680's running 20-21 psi of boost on a 14b and it worked fine (just had to richen the higher rpm's a little since the pump was starting to fall behind). I have my 1g on e85, my 2g, and my cousin's 2g. all with 255 pumps and stock lines, filter, rail, fpr. No problems. Also, my 2g gets 22mpg cruising, which I don't think is bad on e85.

 

[JrCRXHF]

I am doing now


AEM EMS
255 pump
FIC 1000cc
EVO 3
Speed density 3.5 bar
AEM wide band
AEM serial gauge
2g knock
6 an fuel line
Aero FPR

 

[Turbo-addicted]

Your fuel pump, filter, and lines will be fine. 950cc injectors should be great because you'll have a lot of room for more power. 750cc injectors can break 400whp on e85.

I started out tuning my 1g talon on e85 using the stock fuel pump & 680's running 20-21 psi of boost on a 14b and it worked fine (just had to richen the higher rpm's a little since the pump was starting to fall behind). I have my 1g on e85, my 2g, and my cousin's 2g. all with 255 pumps and stock lines, filter, rail, fpr. No problems. Also, my 2g gets 22mpg cruising, which I don't think is bad on e85.

Awesome! Good to know that! Where should I take it to have it dyno tuned? Thanks!

What about spark plugs? copper NGK BPR7ES ok or colder?

 

[Black_Bullet]

Get NGK BR7ES.... Readup on the theory of tuning and after you have a logger and wideband tune yourself. You dont have to go to anyone its easy, and with a decent setup your goal is realistic. .

Were is Hollywood FL btw? Up in the Pan handle?
Damn i want e85 bad. Im in the Hillsborough county area, I wish Tampa and Brandon,orlando and all of central Florida would get this stuff ...

 

[xxShaneOmac]

Ok So I just found a E85 supply a town away and Im really interested in it.

I have read pages apon pages and I would Like to say I have somewhat an understanding but to be truthfull we have 100 differnt angles going on for the whole E85 argument about 100 differnt topics. So Im in the NEWB area looking for an general agreement about my situation.

So To run full E85 in my 99 GSX Im going to need ...

1. 33% larger injectors - Ethanol tolerant (PTE 880cc's with a FP BigT28)
2. 33% larger fuel pump - Ethanol tolerant (Walbro 255HP Rewired)
3. Anodize fuel rail - Ethanol tolerant
4. AFPR - Ethanol tolerant (Aeromotive)
5. SS fuel line from tank to fuel rail (Fuel Filter?)
6. Ability to control fuel (DSMLink v2.0)

So 1st of all.
Are my Injectors / Fuel pump Ethanol Tolerant ?

2nd
When does an Anodized fuel rail need to be implemented? Will the E85 corrode the fuel rail and get metal crap in my engine?

3rd
Aeromotive ok for Ethanol?

4th
Again when are the SS fuel lines needed from tank to rail? And I herd I may need to replace the Fuel Filter a few times and Ethanol will really clean the tank and lines and clogg the heck out of the Filter, So an aftermarket one should be inline, also getting rid of the restrictive banjo bolt?

Thanks everyone!

 

[talon187]

yes replace your fuel filter a few times because the e85 will clean everything out your injectors and rail and pump should be fine ss line is not needed but a nice upgrade. talk to turnogleen hes ben running e85 for awhile now how boost do you plan to run if you havent upgraded your injectors yet i would say at the very least get 1000s that will leave you room if you ever want a bigger turbo. also make sure you get a unit to tune with like aem ems or megasquirts i have a maf pro not a maft and it would work wonderful if i could get e85 myself good luck

 

[xxShaneOmac]

Sorry for not being as Clear

The ( ) is what I have

So Currently

PTE 880cc Injectors
Walbro 255HP Rewired
DSMLink v2.0
Aeromotive AFPR

Im only at
14.5psi DD
18.0psi is Current Max

I will be doing
ARP Head studs
MLS Head Gasket
Cam's Springs Retainers
Timing Belt


And then Turning up to 20-22 PSI area, Depending on where the FP BigT28 takes me.

I think the FP BigT28 is rated at mid 30's lbs

 

[DougR]

You will be just fine with that current list..
I would change that stock filter Asap. As its probly almost half clogged, and as you already know you needs Alot of fuel flow on E-85..
Just be shure to change that fuel filter a couple times over the next few months.
And watch those IDC's..
Your current Stock system will handle E-85 just fine. Its methanol that it cannot handle... Alot of ppl get confused by that..
Your stock fuel rail will be more than enough to handle the Fuel needed by that FP-28. Even at its upper boost limits.
Along with your fuel lines..

Other then that.. Pump that stuff in and get to tuning!
Get Ready for the FUN!

 

[talon187]

you should be good you will still have more fuel then needed for that turbo. i would think about doing a mitsu 4 layer head gasket and taking your balance shafts out since your that far. another thing to keep in mind is if later down the road you go bigger injectors and turbo you may need another pump

 

[xxShaneOmac]

Sounds good then.
If anyone else wants to chime in with there 2cents I would appreciate it.

 

[Rob10_99]

I would suggest getting a WB02 as well, tuned comparatively to what its set at.
Most people don't know that out of the box WB02's are only for petrol, not alchy, not meth, not nitro, not anything other than gas with E10%.
Now saying that, bigger the better as far as injectors go, you want smaller injectors for atomization but not too high on the IDC's.
Fuel filter yes, buy 4 and replace once you run through the first tank then I would say every other tank.
And the corrosion stuff is all BS, plain and simple. ITS NOT METHANOL!

To clarify, your WB02 is able to read any exhaust gas, you just need to know how to read it.

 

[talon187]

you have a wideband right? just making sure

 

[xxShaneOmac]

Again lack of information on my part.

AEM UEGO is allready in the car and hooked up to the link.

So yes I have for the most part the normal fuel / tuning setup.

I for the most part have a pretty solid car for mods.

Besides the acutal engine / head and turbo most everything is read for big numbers on the car.

So again sorry and yes on the WB

 

[turboglenn]

keep your stock lines, upgrade to a fuel lab 818 filter and feed kit from extremepsi, and don't worry about anodizing the rail. Take the money you saved from a complete SS line from tank to rail and invest in a WBo2! I'm maxing out my 57 trim turbo at 30psi on E85, 1000cc injectors, 255HP rewired, stock lines from tank, but upgraded 818 filter and feed line from filter to rail. An aeromotive AFPR and that's it.

There's several other guys making way more power than me on the stock lines as well. The 332hp under my avatar is from a pump gas tune @ 20psi, and about the 14th consecutive pull that day. I'm waiting to go back and get my new E85 numbers ~ really hoping to be breaking the 400 mark on my next visit

The "ethanol safe" concerns are legit, but everything fuel related has been engineered ethanol safe for years due to the introduction of 10% ethanol mid-grade gas, the engineers didn't make it just safe for 10%, they over did it as they should and it can take 85% ethanol easily without corroding away in the first 15 years, so you'll be fine until you run out of flow then need bigger lines.

change the fuel filter after the first 3-5 tanks, then again about 10 tanks later. I had a brand new OEM filter and it was so clogged i couldn't blow through it in about 7 tanks. Then i added the Fuel-lab 818 filter and feed line kit with a SS filter element and judging from teh fuel trims i'm seeing, i would say it's time to be taking it apart and cleaning it out. E85 is the uber fuel system cleaner

 

[xxShaneOmac]

Yeah I think I ninja answered the WBo2 Question when you were typing.

But alot of my searching came to your post.
Thanks alot Glenn.

For some reason I dont wanna leave this turbo [FT BigT28] without pushing her pretty far. Just cause it seems no single person has solid advice about this turbo other then "Yeah it was on my car I ran a 14.2 but I had no other mods, now I have an E316G."

Im thinking STM's Tank to fuel rail kit may be what I goto after a few OEM filters are used. And I dont DD this car for the most part, weekend fun car.

I have a nice little stash of the OEM filters so I will use them and then move onto the STM kit.

But It seems like I am ready to go.

So...
Save my current 93 settings.
Get Low on gas
Fill her up with E85
Add appx 30% more fuel and change the dead time
And tune to 12.0 and 0 knock?

Do I up my global?

Im a little lost on how to set up my "Base" settings for E85.

Thanks