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ECMlink E85 MaxOctTable

Posted by tk106, Jul 11, 2019

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  1. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

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    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    So I'm all set to go e85 but still have a full tank of 93. Please take a look at the maxocttable I've created and tell me what you think. I still want to smooth it out a bit but want to make sure I'm on the correct path.

    Thanks for the input!
    Tony
     

    Attached Files:

    88  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    115  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 2K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  2. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

    2,580
    1,177
    Joined Dec 2, 2002
    Houston, Texas
    Holy hell, why so rich? Here is what a proper table might look like:
     

    Attached Files:

    Street Build 3K  10

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    tk106 likes this.
  3. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

    1,329
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    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    LOL..my bad. Thought 9.8 is where you'd want it for cruise and idle. Thanks Vegas!!
     

    88  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    115  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 2K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  4. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    4,083
    1,638
    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    You will want it just like gasoline Tony. I tune cruise and idle to 14.5ish. Shoot for that and see if you like it.
     

    314  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 438  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  21

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM

    4K  24

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.612 @ 107.760 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    tk106 likes this.
  5. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

    2,580
    1,177
    Joined Dec 2, 2002
    Houston, Texas
    You account for that difference in the global fuel calculation if I recall.
     

    Street Build 3K  10

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  6. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

    1,329
    256
    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Thanks Marty! I must not be understanding the articles on e85. I’ll have to go through it again.
     

    88  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    115  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 2K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  7. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

    1,329
    256
    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I know I have to adjust global by multiplying my inj x .67. So are you saying I can leave the rest of my fuel settings the way they are? I’ve read wot afr should be between 11-12.8 on e85.
     

    88  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    115  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 2K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  8. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    4,083
    1,638
    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    Yes, the WOT should be 11.0 - 12.0 (which is getting kind of lean). Change the stoich in the fuel tab to 9.8:1 instead of 14.7:1.
    When you lean out too much, you do get power but a hella lot of heat also as my exhaust was glowing RED when I ran 12.5-12.9 up top under WOT so try to keep it to 12.0 or just under for safety sake.
     

    314  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 438  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  21

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM

    4K  24

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.612 @ 107.760 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    tk106 likes this.
  9. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

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    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Oh I see. Probably take a while for me to go through a full tank and get it fully tuned on corn.

    Thanks, Guys!!
     

    88  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    115  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 2K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  10. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    4,083
    1,638
    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    Are you on Speed Density Tony? If so, go cruise and let SDAdjust help you get it dialed in. Right click on the log and then click on SDAdjust and apply the table recommended, then do it over and over until you like the way she runs.
    Remember to reset your fuel trims in between.
     

    314  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 438  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  21

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM

    4K  24

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.612 @ 107.760 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  11. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

    1,329
    256
    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Nope. 2g maf. Maybe by the end of the year
     

    88  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    115  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 2K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  12. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    4,083
    1,638
    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    Well hell.....I am not as good on a MAF as I used to be since I converted all 3 of our DSM's to SD. Sorry man! :ohdamn:
     

    314  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 438  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  21

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM

    4K  24

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.612 @ 107.760 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  13. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

    1,329
    256
    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    No worries man! I’ll be happy with 15 more horse puppies. Appreciate the input Marty!!
     

    88  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    115  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 2K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  14. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

    1,329
    256
    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    It has the same for maf, so I’ll use that for cruise.
     

    88  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    115  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 2K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  15. ATF 2GTalon

    ATF 2GTalon Proven Member

    70
    11
    Joined Oct 28, 2002
    NYC, New York
    This would be correct If you were looking purely at ethanol afr scale, then stoichiometric of E85 is correct at 9.8. But unfortunately all tuning in DSMLink is in gasoline scale so 14.7 is what you still have to use and stick to.

    No, you can't do this. DSMLink only understands gasoline afr scale. If you tried this it would be running pig rich in closed loop. You have to keep it at gasoline stoichiometric of 14.7.
     

    Street Build 610  1

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    13.7 @ 105 · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  16. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    4,083
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    Independence, Kansas
    Well that is how I tune and it works just fine. Why do you think that option is in link? Just asking.
    My AFR's are displayed in gas scale but I DO have my stoich changed, in fact, it is the only thing I changed when I went to E85 at a station 30 miles away. Was the tune perfect, no. Did it run ok and get me home until I could fiddle with the tune, hell yeh! :thumb:
     

    314  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 438  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  21

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM

    4K  24

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.612 @ 107.760 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    1cleangsx likes this.
  17. ATF 2GTalon

    ATF 2GTalon Proven Member

    70
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    Joined Oct 28, 2002
    NYC, New York
    If you're using narrowband simulation, then the voltage switchover is really what DSMLink is using to keep stoichiometric in closed loop. But for sure in maxoct or minoct tuning you can't put 9.8 in any of those cells and expect to be at stoichiometric.
     

    Street Build 610  1

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    13.7 @ 105 · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  18. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

    2,580
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    Joined Dec 2, 2002
    Houston, Texas
    He's referring to the global fuel calculator under the fuel tab. It's only used to calculate your new global when switching to e85.
     

    Street Build 3K  10

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  19. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    4,083
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    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    Thank you Vegas, yes that was all I was referring to. Good lord if I plugged 9.8 into any cell it would die immediately because it's flooding.
    Sorry for the confusion!
     

    314  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 438  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  21

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM

    4K  24

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.612 @ 107.760 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  20. gofer

    gofer Moderator

    5,480
    965
    Joined Feb 18, 2006
    South Gilbert, Arizona
    9.8:1 IS stoich for E85 if you're tuning on a ethanol scale (9.0:1 is stoich for E100), your WB (unless you have a special ethanol WB) reads stoich on the gasoline scale which is what you'll tune to even if you're running ethanol. If you plug 9.8:1 in your idle cells it really doesn't do much since that's the OLMax/MinOct table which means the ECU only pulls that info when the car's operating in open loop and idle/cruise you're running in closed loop and the narrowband sensor is controlling your AFR's which it targets 14.7:1.

    Look at the OLMax/MinOct tables as a graph with x and y axis, the y-axis is rpm of course and the x-axis is load factor (0.3 to 3.4) which roughly translates to your boost level (with some more complicated math) so really it's what AFR's are you targeting at XX psi @ X k rpm.

    Load Factor (for reference only, it's not exact)
    0.3 to 0.7 is in vacuum, < 0psi or < 14.7psia
    1.0 is ~5 psi
    1.4 is ~8psi
    2.0 is ~17psi
    2.4 is ~23psi
    3.0 is ~35psi
    3.4 is 40psi​

    I run a richer ethanol AFR (11.5:1 by 23psi @ 4k) than most because Arizona ethanol is actually E54 (not 85) so it has a lower octane rating, some run 12:1 out to 12.5:1 depending on how lean they're willing to go. So, looking at my OLMaxOct table below and using the estimated boost vs load factor rows you can get an idea of what AFR I'm trying to target on a gasoline scale.

    upload_2019-7-11_18-48-37.png


    The tricky part is tuning the MAFComp or Speed Density table to get your AFRatioEst to lineup with your WB so you're hitting these target AFR's throughout the rpm band at any boost level. :sneaky:
     

    Street Build 15K  11  61

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    11.634 @ 126.050 · 2G DSM

    2K  0

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  21. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

    1,329
    256
    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Thanks All for clearing this up! Appreciate the input!
     

    88  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    115  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 2K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...

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