Dyno day with the HRC Super 16G

[GSTwkd]

kyvahe-- Since you dont have at aleast a fuel pump I would first run at 14psi and see what the wideband says then go from there. Our cars from the factory run rich so I bet with the race gas you could run at 16psi without a problem. Good luck and let me know how ya do.

ItsStockOfficer-- What a good comparison, a red turbo to a Super 16g I would think the exh. housing would mostly effect spool up, which isn't a problem from my stand-point. Looking at my dyno the turbo holds the power pretty consistent to redline with a little drop-off which I believe is from my smic getting heat soak. I'd like to see some torque numbers from these other 16Gs. I have a feeling my torque is pretty good when compared.

 

[kyvahe]

My Air Fuel Gauge says its rich but honestly i'm not sure how accurate that thing really is... I'll make sure to post what i got and put up numbers, ill let you guys know. Thanks for the help!

 

[SPEEDY]

Great numbers! You and I both have very similar mods except for the turbo, in which I'm runnig a ported FP Big28. I'm hoping to run similar numbers with my set up after I install a big greddy fmic. Your probably pushing about 350 to the crank.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by GSTwkd
kyvahe-- Since you dont have at aleast a fuel pump I would first run at 14psi and see what the wideband says then go from there. Our cars from the factory run rich so I bet with the race gas you could run at 16psi without a problem. Good luck and let me know how ya do.

ItsStockOfficer-- What a good comparison, a red turbo to a Super 16g I would think the exh. housing would mostly effect spool up, which isn't a problem from my stand-point. Looking at my dyno the turbo holds the power pretty consistent to redline with a little drop-off which I believe is from my smic getting heat soak. I'd like to see some torque numbers from these other 16Gs. I have a feeling my torque is pretty good when compared.

It IS a good example. It shows how worthless you lag creating 10 cm housing is when a 7cm and a small clip would spool faster and accomplish more. A RED can get away with a 7, and comes with an 8 standard and can make well over 500 wheel hp. Your Torque is not even worth considering since its at low rpm's where you need the additional lag creating exhaust flow even less, and it dosen't mean a whole lot since races are won at 5.5-7.5 rpm. You have a huge exhaust housing, a tiny exhaust wheel, and a small compressor. Very poor turbo design. Sure it works but its a sacrifice in spool the normal person does NOT like to accept. I get full boost at 3400-3500 on my 20g with a decent design and I am trapping ~120 mph....Oh the SHAME....and thats my spool on HKS 272/272's. This is all using a MAS and 55's with a safc, nothing amazing...

Note That im not saying your car is unpowered by any means! 300 whp is a very good number, Im merely pointing out a Big16g could do it as easily, cheaper, less mounting work and look stock.




And Race gas WANTS a lower air fuel ratio to make power... run 18-20 pounds if you ahve the intercooling

 

[HighPsi91]

When you see a dyno pull where power is super flat like on this one its usually caused by on overall airflow limitation. The intercooler would be the best place to start looking for more power. At this stage of the game however I feel cams are money better spent elsewhere. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with the 2G head. Once you are in the mid 400whp range then cams, headwork, intakes can become a bottleneck. Once your intercooler is up to par... take the money you would have otherwise spent on cams and put it towards a larger turbo. There are many options out there that will spool similar to the S16G but support much higher airflows. Just dont get carried away and go overkill like so many people tend to do.

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by HighPsi91
When you see a dyno pull where power is super flat like on this one its usually caused by on overall airflow limitation. The intercooler would be the best place to start looking for more power. At this stage of the game however I feel cams are money better spent elsewhere. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with the 2G head. Once you are in the mid 400whp range then cams, headwork, intakes can become a bottleneck. Once your intercooler is up to par... take the money you would have otherwise spent on cams and put it towards a larger turbo. There are many options out there that will spool similar to the S16G but support much higher airflows. Just dont get carried away and go overkill like so many people tend to do.

I agree about the fmic, but what's wrong with him trying to maximize his existing turbo? I've always thought that cams and a ported head would be considered supporting mods, they help get the MOST out of what ever turbo you maybe using at the time. I know that I plan on getting a set of HKS 264/264 cams, valve springs, retainers, ported head, 1g intake manifold and a 1g tb to help compliment my ported FP Big28.

 

[HighPsi91]

Theres more to supporting mods than just bigger this and bigger that. The best approach to modifying any car is to match all parts involved. You have to look at it as a total system.

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by HighPsi91
Theres more to supporting mods than just bigger this and bigger that. The best approach to modifying any car is to match all parts involved. You have to look at it as a total system.

I agree! That's why I think he should try and get the most out of the turbo that he already has, with SUPPORTING mods and great TUNING before he jumps to a much BIGGER turbo. I think cams and a ported head would benefit him very well.

 

[GSTwkd]

HighPsi91--- It does look like something is restricting my airflow. I'm hoping its my IC. So what does my torque tell ya? When you looked at Larryd's dyno sheet you mentioned that his torque was enough for 400+ whp. So by looking at my torque, is it fair to say that I'm capable of say 350whp? Also, does my sheet look like your common turbo run graph. Meaning alot of torque low with it fading as the rpms rise. With a new IC, what should I be looking for as in hp and tq reads. Will that help level my tq and rise my hp. Thanks

Also, with where I've been heading in performance wise I just figured the next mod would be doing my intake and head work.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by GSTwkd
Also, with where I've been heading in performance wise I just figured the next mod would be doing my intake and head work.

Head work costs around 1000 bucks and cams are around 600 for the pair. Bang for the buck would be much better with a slightly larger turbo.

 

[97GSTAT]

I also have a S16G, and well be going to the dyno in the next month or so. I have pretty much every supporting mod and a NX wet kit. Only going to be running at 18psi and a 35 shot to see what I put down. And I've had people that drive 400WHP cars that think mine feels just like theres. But we'll see. This is going to be done before I upgrade to a GT30 Garrett. And I agree your side mount is restricting you.

 

[BooSTEDblue]

i just finished my rebuild, with the following...

Head-All new valves, guides, retainers, springs, lifters and rockers. 3 Angle valve job, And Mild porting.

Block-95 pistons(.020 over) on big rods, and some crank work.

Turbo-Big 16g Ported/polished, Clipped 10* w/ 34mm wastegate mod.

Intercooler-SMIC(thats gonna kill me!) All custom piping w/ Greddy BOV

Fuel-All custom braided lines, K&N fuel filter, Walboro 255, 550's, S-AFC

Exhaust-EvoIII exhaust Mani(ported/polished), 3in O2 elim DP...no exhaust piping...
----Did some other supporting mods..can't wait to get it to the Dyno...anybody have any projected #'s they would like to shoot for. I take it in a week....

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by BooSTEDblue
i just finished my rebuild, with the following...

Head-All new valves, guides, retainers, springs, lifters and rockers. 3 Angle valve job, And Mild porting.

Block-95 pistons(.020 over) on big rods, and some crank work.

Turbo-Big 16g Ported/polished, Clipped 10* w/ 34mm wastegate mod.

Intercooler-SMIC(thats gonna kill me!) All custom piping w/ Greddy BOV

Fuel-All custom braided lines, K&N fuel filter, Walboro 255, 550's, S-AFC

Exhaust-EvoIII exhaust Mani(ported/polished), 3in O2 elim DP...no exhaust piping...
----Did some other supporting mods..can't wait to get it to the Dyno...anybody have any projected #'s they would like to shoot for. I take it in a week....

Does this have anything whatsoever to do with the topic? Start a new thread

 

[TSi92]

That SMIC is killing you. Even with stock head and manifold. You should dyno at least 330 with the big 16. Also what rpm did you peaked? Having such high torque numbers must mean that you're peaking before 6000 rpm's.

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by rdrkt

Head work costs around 1000 bucks and cams are around 600 for the pair. Bang for the buck would be much better with a slightly larger turbo.

Even with a slightly larger turbo wouldn't he still need some cams and some head work along with some ARP head studs to get the most out of it?

 

[GSTwkd]

tsi92-- here's my dyno runhttp://www.dsmgarage.com/carmeet/dy...s/karl_dyno.gif

I peak very early on my torque but my hp is pretty flat. I think my IC is killing me. I might have a boost like too but I need to do a leak test to find out. Where should my torque peak at, rpm wise. I thought most turbo cars get most of their torque early and slowly fades as it rises? Also, I've been noticing that alot of people measure their dyno in STD. When I switch from SAE to STD I go from 303whp to 318whp. Which one should I be using to measure with. thanks

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by SPEEDY
to get the most out of it?

That is the key word though. To get the most out of any setup you will need headwork and cams. The thing is WHEN to do that to MAXIMIZE your gains. If you do the top end work like that at the 16g level you really wont pick up any substantial power.

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by rdrkt

That is the key word though. To get the most out of any setup you will need headwork and cams. The thing is WHEN to do that to MAXIMIZE your gains. If you do the top end work like that at the 16g level you really wont pick up any substantial power.

Hmmm... that's strange. I've seen some pretty fast DSM's with 16g's, with just ported heads and cams. Anyways... I'm just commenting that it looks like he still has plenty left in the turbo that he has now, so why should he upgrade his turbo if he still hasen't even maxxed out his current turbo?

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by SPEEDY
Hmmm... that's strange. I've seen some pretty fast DSM's with 16g's, with just ported heads and cams. Anyways... I'm just commenting that it looks like he still has plenty left in the turbo that he has now, so why should he upgrade his turbo if he still hasen't even maxxed out his current turbo?

The “fast” 16g cars you see are usually really light. The highest dynoing 16g EVER was 350HP. That was with everything absolutely perfect. What do you think would be easier? Switching over to a VPC or standalone and try to wring another 50hp out of the 16g or picking up 40-75 hp switching to a 20g with a minor difference in spool up. If you don’t believe me about headwork that’s fine. You can find out yourself if you ever try it in your car. I however will work from the experience of plenty of other people.

 

[GSTwkd]

You guys are both right from what I've heard. Rdrkt is basically trying to say that a bigger turbo is the better bang for the buck for my situation. And speedy is just saying what I and many believe to be the next step in mods for my sinario. Tho I would rather get the intake and head done, I believe it would be smarter and cheaper(important when your poor) to go with a bigger turbo. To move up to a S20g it would only cost me $500. I know its a hahn but if I can run 350whp at 18psi with it than it will work just fine. But we'll see. I think I'm gonna order the HRC fmic in Jan. Hope that'll give an extra 15whp(maybe)

And no I'm not a hahn freak. I got my S16g used for $600 and I like their fmic after I seen a 96gsx run with it at the dyno. It stayed nice and cold after a 373whp run. Plus it fits well with my fascia.

 

[TSi92]

Originally posted by GSTwkd
tsi92-- here's my dyno runhttp://www.dsmgarage.com/carmeet/dy...s/karl_dyno.gif

I peak very early on my torque but my hp is pretty flat. I think my IC is killing me. I might have a boost like too but I need to do a leak test to find out. Where should my torque peak at, rpm wise. I thought most turbo cars get most of their torque early and slowly fades as it rises? Also, I've been noticing that alot of people measure their dyno in STD. When I switch from SAE to STD I go from 303whp to 318whp. Which one should I be using to measure with. thanks

Your link don't work. With a 16G you should have a pretty flat torque curve after 3000 rpm's and it should start to slightly drop off as rpm's rise but you hp should keep going up and it should peak at around 6300-7000 rpm's depending on how restrictive your intake/head and/or exhaust is. I think you should measure in SAE.

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by rdrkt

The “fast” 16g cars you see are usually really light. The highest dynoing 16g EVER was 350HP. That was with everything absolutely perfect. What do you think would be easier? Switching over to a VPC or standalone and try to wring another 50hp out of the 16g or picking up 40-75 hp switching to a 20g with a minor difference in spool up. If you don’t believe me about headwork that’s fine. You can find out yourself if you ever try it in your car. I however will work from the experience of plenty of other people.

That's cool man. I'm just trying to learn all I can. If I don't ask questions I will never learn. Thanks for your knowledge.

 

[TSi92]

Originally posted by GSTwkd
You guys are both right from what I've heard. Rdrkt is basically trying to say that a bigger turbo is the better bang for the buck for my situation. And speedy is just saying what I and many believe to be the next step in mods for my sinario. Tho I would rather get the intake and head done, I believe it would be smarter and cheaper(important when your poor) to go with a bigger turbo. To move up to a S20g it would only cost me $500. I know its a hahn but if I can run 350whp at 18psi with it than it will work just fine. But we'll see. I think I'm gonna order the HRC fmic in Jan. Hope that'll give an extra 15whp(maybe)

And no I'm not a hahn freak. I got my S16g used for $600 and I like their fmic after I seen a 96gsx run with it at the dyno. It stayed nice and cold after a 373whp run. Plus it fits well with my fascia.

I've heard nothing but lots of unnecessary turbo lag from the hahn S20G. That big 10cm housing just don't seem to work. One of our club members runs mid 12's on pump gas at 18 psi consistenly on his '97 with the S20G but he still hates that turbo and he just sold it. He's going for a red or l3r now.

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by GSTwkd
You guys are both right from what I've heard. Rdrkt is basically trying to say that a bigger turbo is the better bang for the buck for my situation. And speedy is just saying what I and many believe to be the next step in mods for my sinario. Tho I would rather get the intake and head done, I believe it would be smarter and cheaper(important when your poor) to go with a bigger turbo. To move up to a S20g it would only cost me $500. I know its a hahn but if I can run 350whp at 18psi with it than it will work just fine. But we'll see. I think I'm gonna order the HRC fmic in Jan. Hope that'll give an extra 15whp(maybe)

And no I'm not a hahn freak. I got my S16g used for $600 and I like their fmic after I seen a 96gsx run with it at the dyno. It stayed nice and cold after a 373whp run. Plus it fits well with my fascia.

I know exactly where your coming from about the poor part. I'm very budgeted myself. Again... those are some very nice numbers you have laid down IMHO. Good luck!!