downshifting to first

[its_hey_ma]

I just got a 5-speed, my first stickshift, and I noticed it wont downshift into first unless im at a complete stop. Someone told me it was a precautionary thing made by the company so I don't endanger the turbo somehow. Is this true or is thier something wrong with the tranny or clutch?

 

[slider85]

first off, when are downshifting to first? are you racing or something? Second, the synchros in these cars apparently are a little weak so downshifting to first is harder. you should probably only do it when you are at a stop.

 

[its_hey_ma]

well, im mostly doing the downshifting (when not at a stop) when i'm taking a corner at like 5mph and want to accelerate out of the turn. In second it just seems like its starved for power. I literally can't shift at a 1mph roll, I have to come to a complete stop

 

[Mike1992]

Thats just worn syncronizers in the tranny, learn to live with it or have the tranny rebuilt. These cars and most older manual trannied cars suffer from it, its wear and tear no biggy.

 

[x camaro owner]

nope you are locked out of first it is normal no worries. if you are rolling through a parking lot sometimes you can downshift to first. but really sucks in the city with all stop and go and people honk at you cuz you made a complete stop at the stop sign. sucks don;t it

 

[pneumo]

Usually I can get into first while rolling if I double clutch the shift. I have to be quick to catch the gear, so I just stomp the clutch and push it into gear simultaneously.

Rev matching seems to work too, but I'm not so good at that technique.

 

[Defiant]

Don't bother with first from a roll. You have plenty of motor to pull it out in second, and first is too little load to get a good spool on the turbo anyway.

 

[x camaro owner]

once again mr. badass defiant misses the point. you can just tell he is one of those people who gets into races on street and has no care for other people on the road.

this goes for every everyone the other day i got into a race with a brand new bmw 325i and he was pissed that he couldn't pull away with using power and couldn't out handle so we are doing our 120mph came up on traffic and he cuts off a minivan with a family in it. now seriuosly people you need to realize its not that important to get ahead sometimes you just have to bite the bullet . and say enough is enough or now its not wide open road maybe we should stop. i am seeing this type of shit every day. all i have to say is open road fine, but when there is cars with families just remember thats called driving like a f#ck and no one can call them selves a respectable racer if they do that, they are just the people who give street racers a bad name.

he must not drive up hill that much either. and why spool in a parking at a mall with people walking all over he must be one of those stupid street racers. also the amount of load on the engine is quite a bit when you are just rolling and use second. why don't you get on your mountain bike and start it off in a tight gear and pedal up hill. the motor will not pull out of a roll fast unless you boost and put a shit load of load on the bottom end of the engine

 

[JwUoNoG]

Um... I didn't see any reference to racing in Defiant's post. It sounded like good advice to me.

Anyway, I don't downshift into first. In my opinion, first gear is strictly for getting your car to move from a stop. 2nd gear is good for anything over 5 mph.

 

[its_hey_ma]

Thats a very good reply. Thanks for seeing it my way. I noticed your from IL, that must be why you see my delema. Stop and go traffic is way to much and the hills never end. Coming to a complete stop every time is just annoying. And yes, 10 or 15mph and second is fine. I was talking about 5mph and any speed lower. The parking lots are a perfect example

 

[x camaro owner]

yep south suburbs of chicago takes over 30 min to go 4.5 miles being locked out of first everyone notices in my car. other people are like well my 300zx doesn't do it thats cuz its a 300zx

the racing thing
hmm guess you didn't seeing any thing about spooling in it did you. now why would you want to spool a turbo hmmmmmm

i know to cruise through a parking lot.

 

[Morphius]

once again mr. badass defiant misses the point. you can just tell he is one of those people who gets into races on street and has no care for other people on the road.

this goes for every everyone the other day i got into a race with a brand new bmw 325i and he was pissed that he couldn't pull away with using power and couldn't out handle so we are doing our 120mph came up on traffic and he cuts off a minivan with a family in it. now seriuosly people you need to realize its not that important to get ahead sometimes you just have to bite the bullet . and say enough is enough or now its not wide open road maybe we should stop. i am seeing this type of shit every day. all i have to say is open road fine, but when there is cars with families just remember thats called driving like a f#ck and no one can call them selves a respectable racer if they do that, they are just the people who give street racers a bad name.

he must not drive up hill that much either. and why spool in a parking at a mall with people walking all over he must be one of those stupid street racers. also the amount of load on the engine is quite a bit when you are just rolling and use second. why don't you get on your mountain bike and start it off in a tight gear and pedal up hill. the motor will not pull out of a roll fast unless you boost and put a shit load of load on the bottom end of the engine

Seriously, the origional poster asks one thing and you go off on someone else about another??? Now, Who's the moron street racer? You? You're the one bragging about running a BMW up to 120 in traffic. Real smart.


You are a noob. Defiant is not a street racer and DOES know his stuff, so lay off it.

 

[Morphius]

Even when new, it can be difficult to hit 1st while rolling in a DSM. There is no lockout for first. The difficulty of the shifting comes from the mechanics of the system. Given first gear ratio, you are spinning the gear clutster MUCH faster than you would in any other gear (obvioulsy). You likely are trying to hit first at something faster than 5 mph.. say 10 to 15?? To do this, the syncronizers are working overtime to speed the gear cluster up to match your driveline speed. Until they match, the syncros won't mess nice. Thus, the difficult shift.

Be careful though. I wouldn't downshift into a lower gear at too high an RPM. For instance, if you were rolling at 50 and hit 2nd somehow, even though you have the clutch pushed in, you've just oversped your clutch disk. Doing such a shift can run the gear clutster and clutch disk to an RPM far exceeding your redline, simply due to the ratios. OEM's only design the clutch disk to be safe to around 1.1 to 1.2 times the redline. This means for a 7K redline, at a 1.2 safety factor you can explode the clutch disk at 8.4K rpm.

 

[dont need 8]

Since it is your first standard tranny you need to learn to rev match and double clutch. I can put my RS in first at a roll, just be very careful when downshifting, have a good idea of the top speed for each gear. When turning left at an intersection I can usually leave it in third and have plenty of power, turning right I drop to second. You should be able to downshift to first if you are below 10-15 mph, just remember to ease the clutch out at first and apply brakes and/or gas to help you transition smoothly. If you see the RPMs starting to spike then push the clutch back in, apply more brakes and ease the clutch out again. Eventually you will learn the gearing and you will know what to downshift to in any given corner.

for x camero owners comment, please do not chastize someone for being a street racer and not caring about other people while explaining how you were an accessory and willing participant in a street race at 120+ mph in traffic. Hypocrisy is an ugly thing. Surprised Defiant didn't delete the worthless post,

 

[its_hey_ma]

Even when new, it can be difficult to hit 1st while rolling in a DSM. There is no lockout for first. The difficulty of the shifting comes from the mechanics of the system. Given first gear ratio, you are spinning the gear clutster MUCH faster than you would in any other gear (obvioulsy). You likely are trying to hit first at something faster than 5 mph.. say 10 to 15?? To do this, the syncronizers are working overtime to speed the gear cluster up to match your driveline speed. Until they match, the syncros won't mess nice. Thus, the difficult shift.

Be careful though. I wouldn't downshift into a lower gear at too high an RPM. For instance, if you were rolling at 50 and hit 2nd somehow, even though you have the clutch pushed in, you've just oversped your clutch disk. Doing such a shift can run the gear clutster and clutch disk to an RPM far exceeding your redline, simply due to the ratios. OEM's only design the clutch disk to be safe to around 1.1 to 1.2 times the redline. This means for a 7K redline, at a 1.2 safety factor you can explode the clutch disk at 8.4K rpm.

as i stated a few posts up, im not trying to go into first above 5. even at 1mph it just wont go into first. Its probably just a bad synchro or something. And Im not sure if you have a 1g turbo but i can drop into 2nd at 50 and not come close to redline. 80mph is closer to my redline in 2nd.

 

[its_hey_ma]

Since it is your first standard tranny you need to learn to rev match and double clutch. I can put my RS in first at a roll, just be very careful when downshifting, have a good idea of the top speed for each gear. When turning left at an intersection I can usually leave it in third and have plenty of power, turning right I drop to second. You should be able to downshift to first if you are below 10-15 mph, just remember to ease the clutch out at first and apply brakes and/or gas to help you transition smoothly. If you see the RPMs starting to spike then push the clutch back in, apply more brakes and ease the clutch out again. Eventually you will learn the gearing and you will know what to downshift to in any given corner.

for x camero owners comment, please do not chastize someone for being a street racer and not caring about other people while explaining how you were an accessory and willing participant in a street race at 120+ mph in traffic. Hypocrisy is an ugly thing. Surprised Defiant didn't delete the worthless post,

and just a quick note to you, I've never seen a rear bumper like the one on your car and I have to say it looks better than any I've ever see. It has the effect of a bodykit with a very clean look.

 

[99gst_racer]

Um... I didn't see any reference to racing in Defiant's post. It sounded like good advice to me.

Anyway, I don't downshift into first. In my opinion, first gear is strictly for getting your car to move from a stop. 2nd gear is good for anything over 5 mph.

^^^ I agree ^^^. If your car is rolling 5 mph+, then 2nd gear is all you need. I never try putting my car in first unless I'm stopped anyway. 1st gear is not meant to be used for downshifting.......

 

[its_hey_ma]

^^^ I agree ^^^. If your car is rolling 5 mph+, then 2nd gear is all you need. I never try putting my car in first unless I'm stopped anyway. 1st gear is not meant to be used for downshifting.......

are my posts invisible or something? This is the 3rd time I'm posting to say I'm not downshifting above 5mph. I'm just talking about between like 1mph and 5mph. If its above 5mph I'll use 2nd but at 1mph 2nd just sucks and coming to a complete stop is even worse

 

[sytrus]

When I learned how to drive a stick I was told never to "downshift" into first. When going around a turn say your going 30 mph, hit your break until your in the 20-25 mph range, then clutch in downshift into second release, it'll pull back and just go around the turn. The only time you should shift into first is when rolling up to a stop light, either put your clutch in and put it in neutral until your at a complete stop (with your break), and then put it in first, or downshift into 2nd then at a stop into first.

 

[dsmmyth]

You don't need to downshift to first even if you're travelling a little slow. First gear is a "starting" gear. You only use it to take off.

 

[RickyIac]

Yo, Apparently your a hippocrit, saying that people that race while there are other cars on the road give street racers a bad name, when your saying you were runnin with a beamer at 120 and he cut someone off in a minivan, to me, that means that you werent on an open road, as far as im concerned, when defiant gives advice on this page, i listen so you need to chill out, and re think your posts man cuz your making yourself look like an ass. And if your gettin beat by a bmw maybe you need to rethink your street racing career.

As for downshifting to first. 1st gear is always one of the first gears to go cuz its the one that takes the most beating, so you need to chill on it, downshifting to first gear is never a good idea, cuz it just deteriorates the life of your tranny. Although, i have downshifted to first b4 when i really need to stop fast becuz of traffic, like if the guy in front slams on his breaks and im in second but in order to do that u need to rev match, and never go from anything higher than 2nd, and only when your at like 3k in 2nd, you dont want to put to much load on your car, and once again, i only do it in emergency's, normally if im going into a turn i downshift to second and let the engine brake for me, its the easiest way to do it

 

[2gGSX]

The guy is already temporarily suspended, so there's no need to keep bringing that up.

As for shifting to first when going 5 mph in a parking lot, try blipping the throttle some while you have your clutch in before you try to shift.

 

[dont need 8]

are my posts invisible or something? This is the 3rd time I'm posting to say I'm not downshifting above 5mph. I'm just talking about between like 1mph and 5mph. If its above 5mph I'll use 2nd but at 1mph 2nd just sucks and coming to a complete stop is even worse

I hear ya and I know what you mean, if I drop below 5-10 mph in my car second is a dog. Important thing is to learn your engine and gearing and the limitations. If you need to go slow in parking lots I can almost idle in 1st and run 5 mph without killing it, just blip the accelerator every once in a while. Some people on here would say I am ruining my clutch by downshifting but I quite often slow to almost a complete stop with out brakes, all the way to first. I bought the car with 36,000 miles on it and I have 120,000+ now with same clutch, which I would bet was the original one. I have replaced brake pads once in that time as well and I think I drive pretty aggressive.

Also, thanks for the compliment on the bumper. I bought it because it it looked simple and was rare, I have never seen another in person.

 

[AdoreGSX]

do you guys not understand that there can be open road and you can COME UP ON TRAFFIC...good god.

 

[Morphius]

are my posts invisible or something? This is the 3rd time I'm posting to say I'm not downshifting above 5mph. I'm just talking about between like 1mph and 5mph. If its above 5mph I'll use 2nd but at 1mph 2nd just sucks and coming to a complete stop is even worse

Try this. After depressing the clutch, shift into 2nd, then first. The 2nd syncros will be able to speed the gear cluster up to syncronize sooner and easier than trying to hit first gear, first.