Dogbox or swap to auto?

[getusum]

Which is best here? I have a perfectly good stage 1 shep trans but I feel like I’m on borrowed time. I’d like to go ahead and change now. Who’s does dogbox’s anymore since I think shep is done? How hard is a auto swap? Thanks guys!!


Build list.
Block:
Decked to match head
Bored/Honed – .02 over with Torque Plate
Line honed mains
APR Main Studs
ARP Rod Bolts
ARP Head Studs
Wiseco 9.0:1 Pistons (.018’’ / .021’’)
K1 H-Beam Rods
Stock 2g dsm crank – micro polished
Mahle main and rod bearings (Standard size)
Felpro Head gasket
Balance shaft eliminator kit – stub shaft on oil pump gear, new bearings pressed in to block oil passages
Custom oil pan with -12an fitting welded to turbo drain side
New Freeze Plugs
Block Painted
Valvoline 10W30 Conventional Motor oil + STP Filter

Head:
Decked to match block
Kiggly Beehive Valve Springs
SS Valves
GSC Power Division Viton Valve Stem Seals
Port work and Valve job
Bronze Valve guides
DKS 272/272 Cams
Custom 2G DSM valve cover with (2) -10an fitting welded to it for custom gamble garage catch can
Timing:
All New timing components, seals, pulleys etc.

Intake:
VRSF 2g DSM Intercooler with piping flanged for TIAL 50mm BOV
TIAL 50mm recirculated BOV
Rebuilt 2g DSM Throttle Body - Stock 2g DSM Intake manifold ports cleaned up/slight port work
Forced performance recirculated intake pipe with K&N Filter
Gamble Garage Catch Can Setup

Interior:
Kirkey Aluminum Seats - 17’’ an 19’’ with seat covers and gforce camlock harness
Autopower Industries Harness Cage

Fuel:
FIC 1120cc Fuel Injectors
Deatschwerks DW300 Fuel Pump - New install - Walbro 450 and new sending unit
Fuel Pump rewired with STM kit
Full Stainless Braided fuel feed and fuel return lines -6an
Fuel lab fuel filter
Fuel lab fuel pressure regulator
Stainless braided fuel filter to rail and fuel rail to FPR lines

Cooling:
CxRacing – Radiator with derale high output fan
New thermostat
New radiator hoses
Gamble Garage Coolant Reservoir

Drivetrain:
Shep Stage 1 Build Trans – New Axle shaft seals current, MT90 Trans fluid
ACT 2600 4 Puck Sprung
ACT Streetlite Flywheel
New Flywheel and pressure plate bolts
New Throw our bearing
New Clutch master and slave cylinder with full stainless braided 1pc master to slave line
TCase – New input and tail seal with new dust cover – Redline Heavyweight shock proof
Diff – Redline Heavyweight shockproof
Solid Driveshaft carrier bearing bushings

Electronics:
DSMlink ECM V3
Auto meter phantom Mechanical Boost gauge
Auto meter phantom Mechanical Oil Pressure gauge - New Install - Autometer electric oil pressure gauge
Innovate MTXL Wideband
New Alternator
Battery

Turbo/Exhaust:
Brand New Holset HX40 pro
Bullseye power T3 hotside
Full -12an turbo return line
Full -3an turbo feed line from oil filter housing
Custom V-band 3 in exhaust/ 1.75’’ Dumptube
DNP-62 Tubular Exhaust Manifold flanged for TIAL MVR44 MM Wastegate
TIAL MVR44 MM Wastegate
Hallman Boost controller
Brakes/Tires/Suspension
Full Evo 8 Brembo Brake Conversion with custom adapter brackets – Black with new “Brembo” decals
Hawk HPS Brake Pads Front and Rear, NEW - Cross drilled and slotted rotors
New Stainless braided brake lines from proportioning valve to brake calipers
RM racing front and rear sway bars
3g Brake Booster
3g Master Cylinder
Evo 10 Rims wrapped in Nitto NT05 Tires – 235/40/18
Every suspension/steering component replaced front and rear (includes new hubs, lower arms, upper arms, side arms, end links, tie rods, bushings etc…)
Ingalls Camber kit front and rear
Tokico Illumina 5 way adjustable shocks front and rear on eibach lowering springs Tien flex z adjustable coilovers

Underbody:
Vehicle was on a full rotisserie, everything removed from the vehicle, whole underbody sanded, primed, painted, and clear coated.

Exterior:
New 2G front bumper
New Headlights
New Side Marker
Repainted OEM Hood

Engine Bay:
Repainted – P88 Cayenne Red Pearl
Every bolt replaced with new Grade 8 and Grade 10
Engine and Chassis Harness – Slight tuck – Rewired and re-loomed
Custom aluminum battery tray
Poly Mounts – All 4 mounts

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[awdmonster1904]

Just my opinion

if you’re drag racing all the time auto would be the way to go. But if it’s a street car 5 speed
But it’s up to you

my car is currently on a PPG I’m getting ready to give auto for next season.

 

[getusum]

PPG is 8k….have you priced the auto swap yet? How difficult is it?

 

[jed344]

I am in same boat. I have been on buyed time for last year. Thinking I will spend the coin on PPG box this winter. Auto pricing depends on what all you do while doing the swap.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Keep your peak torque around 400 and you should get some decent life out of the trans. That also depends on if you drag race a lot, launch it hard a lot, etc.

Auto swaps are getting harder and harder to do, because finding someone selling a complete swap (or a complete donor car) is getting more difficult. Last time I priced them out, a complete swap was anywhere from $1500-2500, just for parts, with an unknown, bone stock trans. Figure another $1600-2200 to rebuild the trans with upgraded parts, then you could spend upwards of $1000 on a converter.

It’s not cheap by any means, but it IS cheaper than a dog box/300m tcase/twin disc combo. It’s also more reliable and consistent in the 1/4 mile. You just need to ask yourself what the main purpose of the car is, do you want to invest that kind of time and money into swapping parts, and do you enjoy shifting the car vs a “stab n steer” driving experience

 

[Boomdeeze]

do you enjoy shifting the car vs a “stab n steer” driving experience

Shots fired! It's not stab and steer if you install an auto with a ratchet shifter

I swapped to auto a few years ago and honestly I still love my decision. Don't get me wrong, I do love driving a manual and you can never completely replace it but driving the ratchet shifter helps ease the pain with the reliability of the auto is amazing. If you do want to go the auto route, I did a write up on here which allows you to keep your manual engine harness and does not require you to use a TCU. It's a simple swap at that point as all you need is the trans, tcase, converter, brake pedal, ratchet shifter, auto intermediate shaft (usually can get that with the trans/tcase), trans cooler and a temp gauge. If you're block is a 6 bolt, you will need the kiggly install kit for the trans.

Honestly the auto is amazing for reliability and the peace of mind you have of having a built auto is great. You won't be breaking any dyno records but people will fear you at the track!

 

[getusum]

Keep your peak torque around 400 and you should get some decent life out of the trans. That also depends on if you drag race a lot, launch it hard a lot, etc.

Auto swaps are getting harder and harder to do, because finding someone selling a complete swap (or a complete donor car) is getting more difficult. Last time I priced them out, a complete swap was anywhere from $1500-2500, just for parts, with an unknown, bone stock trans. Figure another $1600-2200 to rebuild the trans with upgraded parts, then you could spend upwards of $1000 on a converter.

It’s not cheap by any means, but it IS cheaper than a dog box/300m tcase/twin disc combo. It’s also more reliable and consistent in the 1/4 mile. You just need to ask yourself what the main purpose of the car is, do you want to invest that kind of time and money into swapping parts, and do you enjoy shifting the car vs a “stab n steer” driving experience

All that being said, it’s still cheaper going auto. Less fun maybe but I’m 41, I want consistency …well as much as theses cars will allow anyway.

 

[getusum]

Shots fired! It's not stab and steer if you install an auto with a ratchet shifter

I swapped to auto a few years ago and honestly I still love my decision. Don't get me wrong, I do love driving a manual and you can never completely replace it but driving the ratchet shifter helps ease the pain with the reliability of the auto is amazing. If you do want to go the auto route, I did a write up on here which allows you to keep your manual engine harness and does not require you to use a TCU. It's a simple swap at that point as all you need is the trans, tcase, converter, brake pedal, ratchet shifter, auto intermediate shaft (usually can get that with the trans/tcase), trans cooler and a temp gauge. If you're block is a 6 bolt, you will need the kiggly install kit for the trans.

Honestly the auto is amazing for reliability and the peace of mind you have of having a built auto is great. You won't be breaking any dyno records but people will fear you at the track!

I’m going to read that write up today, auto it is my friend. Thanks for the help!!

 

[Boomdeeze]

I’m going to read that write up today, auto it is my friend. Thanks for the help!!

Here you go!

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/kiggly-mod-walk-through-no-tcu.499441/

 

[OH91awd]

I was in the same boat a few years ago. It was 8k for the dogbox, plus $1300 for the clutch you need (have to use a twin disc with evo splined disc) and then you’re still on stock axles that don’t like the shock from the 5spd if you don’t launch it just right. With my current auto swap on my 1g. I’m sitting at around $4500 invested with a well built trans (libertys straight cut, jb deep pan, ect.). I’ve driven my car more as an auto than I ever did with a stick in it.

 

[Vegas Smith]

It's a simple swap at that point as all you need is the trans, tcase, converter, brake pedal, ratchet shifter, auto intermediate shaft (usually can get that with the trans/tcase), trans cooler and a temp gauge.

And a purse.

 

[Boomdeeze]

And a purse.

I like to call it a murse but yes, you will need something to carry all the cash from winning with the auto!

 

[Vegas Smith]

I like to call it a murse but yes, you will need something to carry all the cash from winning with the auto!

Oh! Good comeback

 

[getusum]

I was in the same boat a few years ago. It was 8k for the dogbox, plus $1300 for the clutch you need (have to use a twin disc with evo splined disc) and then you’re still on stock axles that don’t like the shock from the 5spd if you don’t launch it just right. With my current auto swap on my 1g. I’m sitting at around $4500 invested with a well built trans (libertys straight cut, jb deep pan, ect.). I’ve driven my car more as an auto than I ever did with a stick in it.

That’s what I was thinking. Did you find a donor car or piece mill it?

 

[Stapl3]

Seems everyone went to auto about 10 years ago. Even the guys with the dogboxes, eventually there was a problem, and rather than throw another 8k at it, went to auto. It's a big pill to swallow if you just want to race your car and have it work and run 9s. My Jack's 2.2HD ate 2nd gear and throwing another 3.5k at that hurt. At some point and time you look at the trans and realize you shoveled 5 figures into it only for it to probably break again. Eventually you get sick of that and the labour doing it, and just want the damn thing to work. Going auto gives you that opportunity.

Rowing through the gears is awesome but it was never figured out right and it's going to break eventually. Even if I had 100 million bucks in the bank, I'd want to do the install myself and well I'm kinda sick of pulling the car apart to do it. It's not fun anymore.

 

[jed344]

I am staying 5spd. I have other toys that are more serious. The 400ftq is more of a general rule i will say. I have broken a few stock trans in the years. This one is going 2 years strong at 30-35psi on 62mm logging 60lb/min+. i assume its 450ftq or so.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Good points on both. Lucky I have one of each. IDK which I like better. Rowing gears or the never ending pull of the auto .

 

[OH91awd]

That’s what I was thinking. Did you find a donor car or piece mill it?

I pieced it together. Then sent my trans to a good buddy that knows them well and had him build it up for me. I added the trans pan and transfer gears because those were simple to do

 

[Boomdeeze]

I pieced it together. Then sent my trans to a good buddy that knows them well and had him build it up for me. I added the trans pan and transfer gears because those were simple to do

I kind of wish I would have spent the extra when I sent it to DTR for the Liberty gear upgrade but the car sees more street than strip, so I decided to keep the stock. I may swap those in one winter if I am feeling spunky. How is the whine?

 

[OH91awd]

I kind of wish I would have spent the extra when I sent it to DTR for the Liberty gear upgrade but the car sees more street than strip, so I decided to keep the stock. I may swap those in one winter if I am feeling spunky. How is the whine?

I’m a fan of it personally I have a video of it on my build journal after I got them put in

 

[Nic_Di_Censo]

I am noticing a lot of comments about launching effecting the 5 speeds. I plan to just have a fun streetable car and take it to a road coarse track day from time to time, y'all think the manual is good enough for that type of build?

 

[Boomdeeze]

I am noticing a lot of comments about launching effecting the 5 speeds. I plan to just have a fun streetable car and take it to a road coarse track day from time to time, y'all think the manual is good enough for that type of build?

Yep, just get it built for your setup.

 

[Benjamin1997GSX]

Which is best here? I have a perfectly good stage 1 shep trans but I feel like I’m on borrowed time. I’d like to go ahead and change now. Who’s does dogbox’s anymore since I think shep is done? How hard is a auto swap? Thanks guys!!


Build list.
Block:
Decked to match head
Bored/Honed – .02 over with Torque Plate
Line honed mains
APR Main Studs
ARP Rod Bolts
ARP Head Studs
Wiseco 9.0:1 Pistons (.018’’ / .021’’)
K1 H-Beam Rods
Stock 2g dsm crank – micro polished
Mahle main and rod bearings (Standard size)
Felpro Head gasket
Balance shaft eliminator kit – stub shaft on oil pump gear, new bearings pressed in to block oil passages
Custom oil pan with -12an fitting welded to turbo drain side
New Freeze Plugs
Block Painted
Valvoline 10W30 Conventional Motor oil + STP Filter

Head:
Decked to match block
Kiggly Beehive Valve Springs
SS Valves
GSC Power Division Viton Valve Stem Seals
Port work and Valve job
Bronze Valve guides
DKS 272/272 Cams
Custom 2G DSM valve cover with (2) -10an fitting welded to it for custom gamble garage catch can
Timing:
All New timing components, seals, pulleys etc.

Intake:
VRSF 2g DSM Intercooler with piping flanged for TIAL 50mm BOV
TIAL 50mm recirculated BOV
Rebuilt 2g DSM Throttle Body - Stock 2g DSM Intake manifold ports cleaned up/slight port work
Forced performance recirculated intake pipe with K&N Filter
Gamble Garage Catch Can Setup

Interior:
Kirkey Aluminum Seats - 17’’ an 19’’ with seat covers and gforce camlock harness
Autopower Industries Harness Cage

Fuel:
FIC 1120cc Fuel Injectors
Deatschwerks DW300 Fuel Pump - New install - Walbro 450 and new sending unit
Fuel Pump rewired with STM kit
Full Stainless Braided fuel feed and fuel return lines -6an
Fuel lab fuel filter
Fuel lab fuel pressure regulator
Stainless braided fuel filter to rail and fuel rail to FPR lines

Cooling:
CxRacing – Radiator with derale high output fan
New thermostat
New radiator hoses
Gamble Garage Coolant Reservoir

Drivetrain:
Shep Stage 1 Build Trans – New Axle shaft seals current, MT90 Trans fluid
ACT 2600 4 Puck Sprung
ACT Streetlite Flywheel
New Flywheel and pressure plate bolts
New Throw our bearing
New Clutch master and slave cylinder with full stainless braided 1pc master to slave line
TCase – New input and tail seal with new dust cover – Redline Heavyweight shock proof
Diff – Redline Heavyweight shockproof
Solid Driveshaft carrier bearing bushings

Electronics:
DSMlink ECM V3
Auto meter phantom Mechanical Boost gauge
Auto meter phantom Mechanical Oil Pressure gauge - New Install - Autometer electric oil pressure gauge
Innovate MTXL Wideband
New Alternator
Battery

Turbo/Exhaust:
Brand New Holset HX40 pro
Bullseye power T3 hotside
Full -12an turbo return line
Full -3an turbo feed line from oil filter housing
Custom V-band 3 in exhaust/ 1.75’’ Dumptube
DNP-62 Tubular Exhaust Manifold flanged for TIAL MVR44 MM Wastegate
TIAL MVR44 MM Wastegate
Hallman Boost controller
Brakes/Tires/Suspension
Full Evo 8 Brembo Brake Conversion with custom adapter brackets – Black with new “Brembo” decals
Hawk HPS Brake Pads Front and Rear, NEW - Cross drilled and slotted rotors
New Stainless braided brake lines from proportioning valve to brake calipers
RM racing front and rear sway bars
3g Brake Booster
3g Master Cylinder
Evo 10 Rims wrapped in Nitto NT05 Tires – 235/40/18
Every suspension/steering component replaced front and rear (includes new hubs, lower arms, upper arms, side arms, end links, tie rods, bushings etc…)
Ingalls Camber kit front and rear
Tokico Illumina 5 way adjustable shocks front and rear on eibach lowering springs Tien flex z adjustable coilovers

Underbody:
Vehicle was on a full rotisserie, everything removed from the vehicle, whole underbody sanded, primed, painted, and clear coated.

Exterior:
New 2G front bumper
New Headlights
New Side Marker
Repainted OEM Hood

Engine Bay:
Repainted – P88 Cayenne Red Pearl
Every bolt replaced with new Grade 8 and Grade 10
Engine and Chassis Harness – Slight tuck – Rewired and re-loomed
Custom aluminum battery tray
Poly Mounts – All 4 mounts

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Talk to Tim Zimmer at TMZ performance, they aren't cheap but he's the best trans builder left and has been working with these cars for a very long time

 

[twicks69]

In the end, it all depends on if you want to drive an auto, or keep it 5 speed. Parts availability is also a fun one, as it is quite difficult to find a good core transmission or the JB designs parts for the auto (output shaft, transfer gears, oil pan) and then the OEM parts needed for install / swap stuff.

Darren Thomas is still making awesome automatic builds (Darren Thomas Racing).

With the PPG, I still am building those as my main customer trans jobs and can get all those parts no problem. The OEM parts needed are becoming more scarce, but currently I can get them. The aftermarket stuff like Quaife or KAAZ LSD front differential, Boostin bearing plate, Boostin 300m output shaft, etc are easy for me to get.

Thanks,

Tim Zimmer
TMZ Performance

 

[KCDsmDude]

If you swap to auto, I'll buy the trans.