Dogbox transmission [Merged 3-7]

[FastRthenU]

Im thinking of dog boxing 1-2 and 2-3 gears. What are peoples experiance with doing this? What are your thoughts? I want to spin my tranny up to 9000rpm, so I think with doing this it should help a lot.

 

[Defiant]

This is new. What does it mean? You've baffled Google.

 

[FastRthenU]

Its basically straight cutting the gears in the transmission. I believe by doing this you don't need syncro's anymore, and you don't have to use the clutch except for first gear, to get you off the line. Even thought you dont need to use the clutch you still should.

I'm only doing this for 2 and 3 gear because those are the ones i fine take a lot of abuse. The only problem is that those gears are going to be loud. Picture reverse but worse. So a lot of people will not like doing this.

I have been told by people running this that they never miss shifts in the dog boxed gears. They say when they shift if feels like the next gear sucks the shifter right in. Its also good for high rev-ers. The transmission doesn't need to slow down so much for the next gear. So, this should help a lot with the transmission not wanting to shift at 9000 +

I only know two ppl that do this, but they seem to have had good results

 

[SailorMoon]

I want a dog box style gearset when I build my gearbox. It looks like an unbeatable/bulletproof setup.

I know Par Engineering does them, and can do custom work. I don't know what we would need to get them into a DSM gearbox. Turbo Magazine did a good article this month on putting a dog engagement gearbox into a 200sx. Last month they did a great article on how to strengthen a stock gearset.

Seeing as how there are so many of us with ailing gearboxes, this could prove invaluable. I haven't even seen any of the techniques they use on this forum. Good stuff, Turbo seems to be the only primedia mag that's even worth bothering with.

Par Engineering www.par-engineering.com

 

[josh long]

It is all in what you search under.

Do a search for for gear kits mitsubishi. Evo 1 thru 3

or here

http://www.seqshift.com/main.phtml?page=programG

josh

 

[Defiant]

Oh, motorcycle and dragster stuff. I'd not heard the term "Dog Box" before.

Thanks.

 

[josh long]

the sarcasim is thick in here.

 

[KGB Pilot125]

albins gear makes a 6 speed dog box that will work for us also its around 3k I beleive.

 

[leet]

Save yourself some money, and don't do it. Put that money where it's proven.

 

[FastRthenU]

Its not that expensive if you do it yourself

Plus marco runs a dog box. So it has to be some what proven

 

[leet]

Marco has a shop. How many people on here have that?

 

[alex1090]

I think you should just have Shepherd build you a bad ass tranny. The guy does an awesome job. You wont regret it. And remember he went 8.76 with no dogbox type tranny.

 

[leet]

Originally posted by alex1090
I think you should just have Shepherd build you a bad ass tranny. The guy gose an awsome job. You wont regret it. And remember he went 8.76 with no dogbox type tranny.

Exactly.

 

[FastRthenU]

I have a shop
I also work in a factory that does CNC. If I really wanted to I could make new gears out of what ever material I wanted, hell I could make everything in the tranny.

I know a lot of ppl don't have the access to these kinds of things. But I do know that my friend dog boxed his own tranny, and went 11.1 on it.

Why are ppl so against trying new things I know ppl have gone very fast without doing this, but I like the idea of less parts to break, and less parts to replace.

Yah John goes really fast and builds nice trannys. But He probley also re builds his tranny after most big events. I do not want to do that or do I want to spend the money to double syncos all the time

 

[leet]

I am not against it, If you have the resources to do it, go for it! Just be sure to post results!

 

[sophat34]

bye the way, marco up at magnus does sell those trannys. it good for like 140 in 4th gear though so it geared pretty high. I thik the price is around 5k but the transmission is redesigned or something, its been a while since I talked to him about it. another thing about Mr. Shepard, he is a damn good driver. I would take a guess and say that most of the people here couldnt drive his car to any thing close to a 9 flat. so that said anything to help me drive better and or make my shifting life easier it money well spent. just one more thing, the only problem that marco had was breaking axels with his tranny but he has new axels now.

 

[stik6shift00]

How much is that magnus dogbox?
anyone have an idea how much it would be to just do it for 1-2 and 2-3....then you wouldn't get a whinning in 1st, 4th and 5th...correct?

 

[dsmcrazyspiff]

Originally posted by FastRthenU
I have a shop
I also work in a factory that does CNC. If I really wanted to I could make new gears out of what ever matirial I wanted, hell I could make everything in the tranny. I know alot of ppl dont have the access to these kinds of things. But I do know that my friend dog boxed his own tranny, and went 11.1 on it. Why are ppl so against trying new things I know ppl have gone very fast without doing this. But I like the idea of less parts to break, and less parts to replace. Yah john goes really fast and builds nice trannys. But He probley also re builds his tranny after most big events. I do not want to do that or do I want to spend the money to double syncos all the time

actually john goes a whole season on the same trans
by the way they last if u know how to shift

 

[aaron31182]

A dog box doesn't mean straight cut gears, necessarily. You could get a dog box with heli-cut gears like a stock transmission that would be quiet and really hard to drive, but a lot of the strenght of the dog box is the fact that the gears are straight cut. Straight cut gears are really loud, but really strong. A dog box has no syncros, so you'd have to double clutch on every downshift. Some people don't care and drive dog boxes on the street. That seems really hardcore to me. I couldn't drive without synrcos.

Im thinking of dog boxing 1-2 and 2-3 gears.
I think you mean "straight cutting" not "dog boxing".

What are peoples experiance with doing this?
I don't know of anyone doing it, but it's possible!

What are your thoughts?
Like I said above, it's going to be really loud but it would be stronger than a heli-cut gear.

I want to spin my tranny up to 9000rpm, so I think with doing this it should help a lot.
Having an actual dog box is what you are thinking of. The lack of syncros allows very high rpm shifting. As far as I know you can't convert a stock transmission to a dog box, but you can buy aftermarket dog boxes. I believe many dsmers already shift at or around 9000rpms on our syncro'ed transmissions so you might want to look into getting it rebuilt by Shepard, TRE, or BMTranny. It would be a lot more street friendly.

 

[Defiant]

An interesting archaelogical escapade.

 

[dre99gsx]

From Marco @ Magnus:

"Anyway, lemme answer some questions

Gear ratio's are as follows, the second number is max mph@ 9000RPM on a 24.5" diameter tire, followed by 9000RPM on a 26" tire,

1st 2.429 57.2 60.7
2nd 1.579 87.9 93.3
3rd 1.174 118.2 125.5
4th 0.885 156.9 166.5
5th 0.690 201.3 213.6

Final Drive (stock) 3.8667

WE are not factoring tire growth of 2" diameter usually by 120mph (on slicks) this means that theoretically we can take it past 170mph in 4th.

The Ratio's were chosen as a best all around ratio for both different tire sizes and in between (radials). These ratio's also allowed us to use the strongest possible gear and tooth profiles. The best all around choice.

The gearset slides into a 1st gen or 2nd gen case with little modification. all youo have to do is remove the 5th gear synchro brake and shave it down a bit. The Center differential is replaced by a spool. If you want to run a 4 spider diff we must get a machine to laser weld a new gear to your center diff after the original gear has been machined off. Then agin if you want to run a 4 spider diff you are probably weak and don't want this box.

Adam runs a RalliArt box. The RalliArt box has ratio's that are a little too short for my tastes since I wanted to run 170 mph in 4th. But it is very beefy, huge bearings and much stronger case.

The Gears were actually designed to withstand 1000 ft lbs of tq, but we haven't tested them that far yet. Not sure if the case will be a problem at that point, but hey one thing at a time. Shockload strength is usually way higher in gear apps. I just put that little blurb on my website to see if anybpody actually looks at my website anymore

I have been working on this box for 3 years now as some people may know. We have tried a few different materials and hardening processes. The one we have now should work very well, but we will actually be using an even newer material used in racing Lemans Boxes, whose name eludes me right now. Every piece is proprietary, its by mitsu guys, for mitsu guys.

No you can't use just 3rd and 4th. The material is one of the weak points of the mitsu transmission so teaming up good gears with weak gears was just not worth it, you would find the mitsu gear would break and #### up your good gears.

We were able to keep first gear long enough and still keep the factory reverse arm intact without having to grind it like other boxes, also the stock rails and forks have been adequate when you put in new ones, and we have found a 2 year racing service life on the factory aluminum forks.
No viscous is needed anymore and the transfer case output shaft is retained by roll pins in the spool.

Shifting. You can shift it as fast as you want and as hard as you want, but you MUST shift with authority, you cannot wimp out as with a synchro set. I have daily driven it in White trash for wear testing, and let me tell you, driving a car with a crashbox makes you feel alive! You may use the clutch or ignition interupt to shift, or lift off the gas it is your choice. Because we backcut the dogs there must be a momentary release of power to shift. This is so the transmission will stay in gear when you remove your hand from the shifter. Suitable for roadrace that way also.

Service. Dogs will eventually have their sharp corners worn off them depending how you shift, and over long periods of time. When the dogs wear out they can be recut too. Recutting the gear and hubs saves cost when its time for a freshening or parts will be available individually. Gear oil must be changed frrequently and it is common to see particles in the oil, we suggest frequent oil changes as excessive particles will damage your bearings.

Next is price, depending on how many pre-orders we get we will be pricing it between 4 - 5000 dollars. We are hoping that we will be able to sell them through your favorite transmission specialists, that way they will be installed by professionals also.

Every time we have switched to a dogbox we have been able to knock .5 seconds off our time from the shifting, they last longer before teardowns, and are eventually cheaper in the long run. One box has over 100 passes on it while I would normally turn a stock box to mush after 20 passes on last years 750hp 2.4 motor.

Thats all I can think of right now, so let me know if their is any more questions.

http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/images/misc/


Order yours before march 15th and get it for $4375"

 

[Defiant]

As always, moderating is best left to the moderators. But thanks for the help.

Good post, much interesting information. And if it sells a gearbox or two (for more than what I usually pay for a car), then more power[shifting] to him.

 

[leet]

I honestly don't see many people on here buying this.

However, impressive piece of engineering.

 

[clownface]

If i had the cash i would be ordering that right now. Maybe ill have a lucky streak and get some money and be able to get that, siiiigh.

 

[Wobble]

it has a spool.... no deal