Debate Topic: Drug Criminalization

[Blitzeclips]

Let's not all forget the beneficial things along with marijuana. It offers medicinal purposes and helps many people sleep, eat, and relieve themselves from pain. It is by far, safer then most pharmaceutical or prescription drugs people are given to date-- assuming you know where the weed was grown to relieve any risks of laced or tampered weed.

Here's a brief reason for risk associated with marijuana..
There is a marijuana forum, I will not post it because I may or may not be a member.. Anyways, there was a string of weed going around Europe for a few weeks that looked amazing, was amazing, and pretty much knocked you on your ass. Anyways, soon, people began to notice that it *hurt* to inhale the stuff. During and after.

It wasn't until a man was breaking the buds up on his glass table that something abnormal was noticed. As he broke them up, he noticed the buds were leaving scrapes and streaks across his glass table.

Upon further investigation by many potheads, they found that trillions of trillions of tiny glass particles were found on the buds, which were perceived at the time to be crystals, keefe, or THC. The dealers on a mass scale were actually grinding up sand and glass bits into tiny bits , then mixed into the bricks of weed.

MANY MANY of the users were admitted into hospitals for extreme lung damage and internal bleeding. NONE of the patients were treated or covered by medical insurance because they were injured from the use of the drug.
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I can solve 2 big problems in America right now that would reduce jail crowding, high taxes, and crime associated with petty drugs such as marijuana. Here's how...

Legalize marijuana and relieve everyone caught selling or distributing the drugs(without associated murder, homicides, assault, etc...) from a jail term. The guys out there selling this stuff by the pound or two aren't hurting anyone, and if they did they should remain in jail. But for all the users and distributors with non-violent offenses should be free again. They're not criminals.

This would effect society and the economy in the three ways previously mentioned. It would decrease the amount of inmates in jail, which in turn would decrease the amount of taxes deducted from out paychecks because those taxes provide food, shelter, and treatment for the inmates. If the inmates are gone or reduced, it's less money out of our pocket- and ultimately back into the economy to assist the current recession we have right now. Lastly, much less crime would be committed if marijuana were legal. No one would be fighting on their own (because honestly, who calls a cop and says I got robbed for a pound of weed) and it would promote less violence associated with the drug. This would be a continuing cycle because there would never be anymore people going to jail for the crime(s).

One of these days, the government will wake up, or congress will pass a joint around and realize it's really no big deal.

 

[Afroclipse]

That would kill the prison system because most offenses are drug related. Towns live and thrive through jails and prisons and reducing the inmates will in turn lose jobs for a lot of people and you will have a domino effect: no jobs=no customers for local business=bankruptcy=byeby town. America is not like the roman or British empire who used other small or large countries to sustain it, USA has to keep itself going by any means necessary. Thats why you pay lots of tickets, fines, and taxes because without those most cities would die thats the way of the world. Thats one of the reasons HMO and hospitals deny people treatment because of money and the need to have it circulating. Your cutesy transplant won't save anybody shit, it will fix up right which means you won't need medication which is bad for business. What was I talking about I lost myself

 

[Red97Eclipseboy]

I'm against the hard drugs for sure. But what really chaps-my-ass is how alcohol is legal, yet marajuna is not. Countless people die everyday from DUIs. How many deaths have occured from weed?

I used to smoke back in my younger days, and of course I drank, so I know what it's like to be high. I also know what it's like to be drunk. Being drunk is FAR more imparing than weed.

 

[Afroclipse]

If your legalize extremely addictive drugs that impair your mental state you still can't monitor how much a person uses. That leaves a lot of people dangerously high and running around paranoid. If you can't stop people from abusing prescription drugs how are you going to stop them from abusing non prescription over the counter heroine.

 

[ROOKIE1]

I'm against the hard drugs for sure. But what really chaps-my-ass is how alcohol is legal, yet marajuna is not. Countless people die everyday from DUIs. How many deaths have occured from weed?

I used to smoke back in my younger days, and of course I drank, so I know what it's like to be high. I also know what it's like to be drunk. Being drunk is FAR more imparing than weed.

Then you never had good weed . You cannot just talk about illegal drugs . I know plenty of people hooked on prescription drugs . As long as people want to get that high they will . Whether it be legal or illegal . This thread is pointless , lets agree to disagree . We the people control nothing , period . We do not have the money to change things . The golden rule .

 

[Enki]

Why should the government be able to control what I do on my private property if it affects no one but myself? People are far too eager to give up their rights these days.

Also, there is a difference between drug use and drug abuse.

 

[ROOKIE1]

They already control everything we do . We only get what they allow us . I would love to be able to do whatever I want on my property .

everyone is saying there is a difference in use and abuse . Well no shit . But alcohol and drugs are addictive . The addiction leads to abuse . The addiction is the problem .

 

[leet]

Your mindset is all wrong, growing pot isn't all that hard and you pick what you grow. With the right setup one can produce enough pot to enjoy and sell some discounted without tax year round. The setup would more than likley pay for itself in one batch. DARE is a bullshit program teaching about "drugs" and "drugs" to them is marijuana. Its a non harmful substance on which someone with an "addiction" wont hurt anyone beyond themselves with that "addiction"

This statement is true, don't ask me how I know.

 

[Enki]

They already control everything we do . We only get what they allow us .

That sort of thinking is exactly why they can get away with it in the first place. The government is supposed to serve the people.

[No, "the government" is supposed to be The People.]

 

[Enki]

everyone is saying there is a difference in use and abuse . Well no shit . But alcohol and drugs are addictive . The addiction leads to abuse . The addiction is the problem .

Just because a substance can be addictive does not mean that use always leads to addiction and abuse. There are many, many people who use alcohol (and other drugs) without ever becoming addicted.

If addictiveness is the problem then why are cigarettes legal, yet marijuana isn't?

 

[crensinivon]

What really gets to me is how drug testing is required for jobs now. I don't understand how that is constitutionally just. We as a people are more scared of our government than our government is of us. This is completely and utterly wrong. Just the other day on the news we heard about a senator spending 80000 dollars on a hooker. Honestly I don't have that kind of money to spend, but we pay these people that kind of money to make decisions that we don't like. Regardless of how you feel about drugs until we as a people will get up off our lazy asses and do something about it, things will never change. Also, I found out just a couple of days ago when going to the store to get a cleanser that they are now testing for nicotine as a pre employment requirement. Again unjust and unconstitutional. I don't know how many times I pick up a newspaper and read about another alcohol related car fatality. Realize that Nevada has been trying to legalize pot for years now but hasn't been able to get the legislation to pass. Probably because the people who it will affect don't care enough to take the time to vote.

Do some research and realize why pot is illegal. It is because hemp paper was cheaper and easier to mass produce back in the day and a rich newspaper guru didn't want to go out of business, so instead he made of false accusations of high black men sleeping with the rich white women. Before segregation this was the most horrible thought in the world.

I have seen in my own way prescription pills, heroin, crack and alcohol ruin peoples lives. I have yet to see a pot smoker completely destroy their lives.

Anyway just my .02 cents on issue, but I still feel like this topic has been

If you really want to waste your time complaining do it about something really productive like National Health Care. We are a country of big money, and greedy slobs.

 

[leet]

A good deal of our money is going overseas to help other countries out.

 

[crensinivon]

I don't understand that either. We are a nation trillions of dollars in debt, yet we have the means to go help out other countries. That's like me borrowing money from my mother and giving it to a charity and being expected to pay her back what a waste. But, I think I got this off topic just a little bit sorry, this is slowly turning into a political debate thread, which I didn't meant to do sorry.

 

[leet]

The nature of the topic is rather political by nature.

I have to thank Guy for leaving this thread open for the time being. Let's continue to show the restraint we have been in discussing it.

 

[bartels903]

I also appreciate it guy.

 

[Afroclipse]

I don't understand that either. We are a nation trillions of dollars in debt, yet we have the means to go help out other countries. That's like me borrowing money from my mother and giving it to a charity and being expected to pay her back what a waste. But, I think I got this off topic just a little bit sorry, this is slowly turning into a political debate thread, which I didn't meant to do sorry.

Unless you haven't realized the USA is faraway from all the other countries, how do you think they keep in touch. i'm from a small country called Zambia and I can tell you that the USA and China have done there share of keeping us financially ok. If the US was to go to war with
Tanzania or something guess where they would demand to park their tanks and shit, you scratch my back I scratch yours. Oh yeah out of topic but as of right now China is scratching a lot of backs especially in Africa and right now their is a serious fight between China and USA
to see who will have the rights to help Zambia mine Uranium. We even had a visit from Mr. Clinton a few months ago.

 

[eclipsh]

You know what really gripes me? All these posts saying damn the man, government is the devil etc. without any effort to do a damn thing or stopping to think about it beyond a knee-jerk reaction. Yeah, there are plenty of things wrong but get off your lazy asses and do something about it instead of just bitching! Go to your party caucus, propose an initiative for something you care about, volunteer to work with an organization that supports your cause. Hell, run for office. Just do something! Believe it or not we do have a government run by we the people but only a small portion of the population bothers to exercise their constitutional rights to run it.

Hell, getting involved is easy. I'm a delegate to my state party convention this year. All I had to do was ask to go and sign up. I get to speak for or against any party platform item that comes up, help pick delegates to the national convention and help pick our presidential candidate. At our county level convention I spoke in favor of a party platform initiative calling for the abolishment of the electoral college. We also picked the people who will be running for our county commissioners. It has taken about five hours of my time split over two very distant days to get involved like this. I'm just saying you can get involved and you can make a difference if you bother to stand up and try.

And yes this does relate to the drug issue because you can always go to your convention and pass an initiative for legalizing whatever you want so long as you can convince enough people to support it.

 

[bartels903]

You think we do nothing? I personally have donated 150 dollars twice to NORML.

Who is going to listen to us, I am a 19 year old kid with no college education. "He is just some pothead trying to do something"

I think of it as this, majority of voters are older, the younger crowd does not nearly put out the numbers of voters as elders do. The only way I could possibly think to convince them is bring a 30 year old cancer patient that is way sick, but he smokes pot and it helps him deal with the pain. Make an example, Johnny with cancer has leukemia and smokes pot to calm his senses. Even my own father, who grew up in the "hippie" period of life thinks pot is the anti-christ. His own words to me is don't ruin your life with it. America is too hypocritical and non free-based. If the government says its wrong 60% of people automatically agree with them. Try to convice a elephant to mate with a mouse, it just wouldnt work.

 

[crensinivon]

I don't think that the problem is the people standing up for what they believe in anymore. I think that the problem is the class separation of the lower class. With the invention of credit things have just gotten ridiculous. Nowadays, you want a house you go to the local bank take out a loan, and pay back the bank. Without that sort of "help" they wouldn't be able to charge as much for a dwelling. I also think that the minimum wage needs to be increased, but as stated before I don't have the will to get out and change it, because it doesn't matter to me now. One day though this will affect the kids that I will have and I will need to voice my opinion about the matter. This rationally that I currently have is the same with all Americans. I'm not saying that the government is the problem, but I do think that they are too far separated from the struggling hardships of the people that they are elected to serve. I think that there a far more problems in America than legalizing illegal drugs, if you want them you can get them. I think that some of the problem behind drug use/abuse is actually in the desire to do something that your "Big Brother" says is wrong. We are supposed to be ACCOUNTABLE for our actions, making something illegal does nothing to help control the situation. If drugs weren't illegal guess what there wouldn't be any drug related crimes. Regardless of Federal regulations, people will find a way to get what they want. Make it legal make it easy to get then let the idiots kill themselves. People will get the hint unemployment will go down because there will be less people to fill the jobs.

The real problem, and sorry if I offend anyone by this, is illegal immigration. That will eventually kill the country that we have created. If someone will do the same job for less, wouldn't you want them to do it. We have become a country where quanity over quality has become our way of thinking.

Our country which is the youngest of all the countries, a country stolen from the original inhabitants, needs to take a few lessons from countries that are centuries older than us.

But thanks eclipsh for pointing out the major problem of us not getting off our asses. People are sheep though and are only as good as their leaders. We got what we wanted though a corporate culture, I think it is better than communism in some ways, but in others I think that it is a horrible theory. When corporations come before the people we have a real problem.

 

[leet]

The term for a corporate government is fascism. Something I, as an American, do not want to live under.

Also, I would think that most of the people doing drugs because the Government told them not to are teenagers or adults that simply do not understand the fact that their actions will only effect themselves, and not the Government they are trying to spite.

I pretty much agree with what you have to say, though it's not strictly related to the topic. Though I don't think Illegal Immigration is the number one problem in America, it is one of them.

 

[nfernotalon]

The problem is Illegal Immigration?? If you say that is the problem that so many people do the job better for so much cheaper then thats not your problem, the problem is other people that live here maybe should do a better and good job in the first place, people keep bitchin well this guy took my job, well they hired this guy and put him in my place blah blah, do a good job and no one will take your job thats up to you. The problem is the damn government accepting people to do these jobs and already depending on them to, not the people doing them. Most Illegal immigrants work hard for their money and cant claim one cent of the taxes they pay like everyone else, but yet they pay taxes like everybody. not to mention no health insurance no 401k, what happens when you get old and cant physically work anymore?

 

[Afroclipse]

back to the topic, would the govt be wrong if they got rid of the problem all together by having a mandatory check every week for marijuana usage for everyone and those who refuse get 50yrs in prison hard labor. My question is that if the govts action affect everyone across the board and in turn protect the well being of it citizens would it still be an intrusion. Most of my friends smoke weed and it never affects their judgement at all but I do see they have slower reactions than usual. I feel let weed slide but anything to addictive and hinders them mentally incapacitated for a while should be banned.

 

[phunny]

I'd say either keep it illegal, or make punishments more severe for committing crimes while "under the influence."

As for illegal immigration, what you don't realize is that they do steal a lot of work from us hard working Americans. You see it a lot more with "prevailing wage" jobs. I see it all the time. These "busisness's" that bid jobs and work their way around the system. It's sick. And since you are in the medical field, please tell me why prices are soo high? I'll tell you. It's because most hospitals have to eat over 20,000,000/year because of illegal immigrants. Guess who pays the tab? YOU GUESSED IT.... I DO, WE DO

Good thread

P.S. Less government=better country

 

[Afroclipse]

Don't blame the govt, blame yourselves, I have been on this planet for 24yrs and I don't drink nor smoke and thats how I live my life. I have a lot of friends who drink, smoke, and then some but thats how they choose to live their life. Dealers can't deal of there are no buyers, just be happy with the way things are. Unfortunately with all the "freedoms" that America has the govt can't really regulate what happens because someone will scream foul. There are too many diverse groups of people here in the USA with too many different FEELINGS and they all want to bi*** to the govt when something goes wrong. Look at this topic for one, some feel that drugs should be removed all the way and others feel that drugs should be legalized. In my country its just like here but our drug is weed and X, the difference is that because we are a christian society the govt has to do the right thing and not worry about who doesn't like it. As in Weed is bad for people(thats what "studies" say and ours is more potent) therefore it needs to be banned regardless of your point of your argument. Imagine how easy it is to govern a country where all ethics and morals are the same and people raise their children the same(its no way perfect), the govt just has to do whats right and people agree. NO GUNS the hurt people, OK. NO drugs they kill people,OK. Here its different every time the govt makes one group happy another says well how about me.
Tell me if I'm not making sense, i'm at work and its 4am

 

[phunny]

nfernotalon:

Please don't post if you're not going to do research. You're entitled to your opinion, but what I said is a fact. The hospitals recoup their "charities" by charging us Americans that pay for medical services. I love the fact that people want to move here, they just need to do it the right way. America proves that a diverse culture can thrive. But we have laws, for a reason.

Now with that being said, we have to keep the government small. With big government comes more laws on our freedoms. Just look at what's going on now. I do believe that whatever you do on your land is your business. Heck, right now you can never own "your" home. You think I'm joking?, just stop paying taxes...Which are illegal anyway. For a great video that shows you how taxes came to be just google Freedom to Facism. And the host died shortly after that video by the way, they said his heart gave out I believe.....Yeah sure.

Again, great post