Dead t25. But 14b, fp t28 on the shelf

[ChristianEclipseAuto]

My setup:
Stock engine - rebuild engine with new Stock componants.
Upgraded smic from a vw gti (350-400hp) custom made to fit
Magnaflow catback exhaust (cat still installed)
New fuelfilter
Fuelpressure regulator from fuellap
Stock 450cc injectors
Blackbox with ceddymods installed
Evoscan used for logging
Missing the wideband (not installed yet)

Can I safely install the 14b turbo I have on my shelf. I have piping, Oil Lines and waterlines. Without doing anything Else ?

i also have a Big t28 which I paid to get rebuild. But I dont know if I Can install that either without changing injectors and so on.

Hopefully I Can get some good answers from some pros. Guides on How to ect.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

Running either option on wastegate pressure will be fine on the stock injectors, however keep in mind the precautions to prevent boost creep.

 

[ChristianEclipseAuto]

Running either option on wastegate pressure will be fine on the stock injectors, however keep in mind the precautions to prevent boost creep.

Okay so I Can run a FP Big t28 on Stock. Just replace it with my Old t25 and I Will be good ? It wont run lean anyhow on Stock ?

 

[chrysler kid]

Okay so I Can run a FP Big t28 on Stock. Just replace it with my Old t25 and I Will be good ? It wont run lean anyhow on Stock ?

The ecu adjusts fuel injection and timing based on air flow. The mass air flow sensor will tell the ecu how much air the turbo is sucking through it

When the mass air flow sensor sees too much air flow and the ecu says the air flow is more than it can calibrate for, it cuts fuel to prevent damage

This fuel cut level on a 14b turbo on a 2g ecu is typically around 14psi.

A t28 should flow a little better than a 14b, so I would say 12psi or hooked to the waste gate should keep the ecu from getting scared of the air flow

You wont damage anything because the ecu is still smart enough to know how to calculate horsepower below a certain air flow level. If the air flow goes above that maximum level the ecu gets scared and goes into safe mode and cuts fuel.

I have very positive experiences with a 14b turbo at 14psi. It has a lot more top end power to redline. It may not be a very fast setup but the turbo flow makes going to redline a very linear power increase along the rpm band.

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

The ecu adjusts fuel injection and timing based on air flow. The mass air flow sensor will tell the ecu how much air the turbo is sucking through it

When the mass air flow sensor sees too much air flow and the ecu says the air flow is more than it can calibrate for, it cuts fuel to prevent damage

This fuel cut level on a 14b turbo on a 2g ecu is typically around 14psi.

A t28 should flow a little better than a 14b, so I would say 12psi or hooked to the waste gate should keep the ecu from getting scared of the air flow

You wont damage anything because the ecu is still smart enough to know how to calculate horsepower below a certain air flow level. If the air flow goes above that maximum level the ecu gets scared and goes into safe mode and cuts fuel.

I have very positive experiences with a 14b turbo at 14psi. It has a lot more top end power to redline. It may not be a very fast setup but the turbo flow makes going to redline a very linear power increase along the rpm band.

Actually this isn’t 100% correct. Fuel cut IS NOT a reliable fail safe when going to a bigger turbo and/or more boost on a stock ecu and fuel system. You can easily run out of fuel pump with the stock pump before you hit fuel cut when you start messing with turbo’s like a 16g or t28, and even with an upgraded pump you can indeed hit 100%+ injector duty cycle before fuel cut occurs. I’ve logged it myself on a stock ecu, maf, and injectors with an Evo 3 16g, on 15psi at wot I seen 100% idc by 5k rpm and continuing to climb, wideband pegged 10.0 rich but once you start pushing injectors beyond their limit you’re asking for a bad time (ex, an injector decides to fail during a wot pull and suddenly you have a cylinder not getting fuel at all…ka-boom). Mind you yes that’s a 1g, but the 2g ecu and maf operate on the same principal and that margin isn’t great enough to be relevant in that case.

As far the op, being the car is anything other than bone stock with the technology easily available today I wouldn’t be getting into the throttle until you have a wideband installed so you can monitor, but with that your answer will be logging what the injectors are doing along with monitoring the air fuel ratio. When you see 80ish% duty cycle (given the afr is safe and you’re not seeing any significant knock) that’s when you’re at the safe limit without needing to upgrade the injectors or do any tuning. I also don’t see an higher flowing fuel pump mentioned so that should really be a must with anything other than a stock car as the stock one will be the first thing to fall short and potentially cause a catastrophic failure. There really isn’t a magical “safe” boost number here without logging and seeing for yourself as every single car is different, but at wastegate pressure (and maintaining) you should be fine, although there really are some things you should be watching.

 

[ChristianEclipseAuto]

Actually this isn’t 100% correct. Fuel cut IS NOT a reliable fail safe when going to a bigger turbo and/or more boost on a stock ecu and fuel system. You can easily run out of fuel pump with the stock pump before you hit fuel cut when you start messing with turbo’s like a 16g or t28, and even with an upgraded pump you can indeed hit 100%+ injector duty cycle before fuel cut occurs. I’ve logged it myself on a stock ecu, maf, and injectors with an Evo 3 16g, on 15psi at wot I seen 100% idc by 5k rpm and continuing to climb, wideband pegged 10.0 rich but once you start pushing injectors beyond their limit you’re asking for a bad time (ex, an injector decides to fail during a wot pull and suddenly you have a cylinder not getting fuel at all…ka-boom). Mind you yes that’s a 1g, but the 2g ecu and maf operate on the same principal and that margin isn’t great enough to be relevant in that case.

As far the op, being the car is anything other than bone stock with the technology easily available today I wouldn’t be getting into the throttle until you have a wideband installed so you can monitor, but with that your answer will be logging what the injectors are doing along with monitoring the air fuel ratio. When you see 80ish% duty cycle (given the afr is safe and you’re not seeing any significant knock) that’s when you’re at the safe limit without needing to upgrade the injectors or do any tuning. I also don’t see an higher flowing fuel pump mentioned so that should really be a must with anything other than a stock car as the stock one will be the first thing to fall short and potentially cause a catastrophic failure. There really isn’t a magical “safe” boost number here without logging and seeing for yourself as every single car is different, but at wastegate pressure (and maintaining) you should be fine, although there really are some things you should be watching.

Hey man. Thanks a lot. I do have the walbro 255 installed and the fpr. I just dont know How to start this turbo upgrading process. I have some evo 560cc as Well I just Got cleaned. If I change the turbo to my t28, how do I make it stay in the save zone without changing to bigger injectors.? Can I in the ecuflash change the boost pressure, turn off the solinoid and make a Manualboost controller so I am sure I dont blow up the engine because the injectors is failing or being pushed to the limit ? I do not want kaboom. That is why my engine has been rebuild.

I just bought the wideband from innovative. So It Will come on soon. I have installed a flashbar Blackbox which now is working, installed ceddymods and should be good to drive it to the tuner.

 

[chrysler kid]

Actually this isn’t 100% correct. Fuel cut IS NOT a reliable fail safe when going to a bigger turbo and/or more boost on a stock ecu and fuel system. You can easily run out of fuel pump with the stock pump before you hit fuel cut when you start messing with turbo’s like a 16g or t28, and even with an upgraded pump you can indeed hit 100%+ injector duty cycle before fuel cut occurs. I’ve logged it myself on a stock ecu, maf, and injectors with an Evo 3 16g, on 15psi at wot I seen 100% idc by 5k rpm and continuing to climb, wideband pegged 10.0 rich but once you start pushing injectors beyond their limit you’re asking for a bad time (ex, an injector decides to fail during a wot pull and suddenly you have a cylinder not getting fuel at all…ka-boom). Mind you yes that’s a 1g, but the 2g ecu and maf operate on the same principal and that margin isn’t great enough to be relevant in that case.

As far the op, being the car is anything other than bone stock with the technology easily available today I wouldn’t be getting into the throttle until you have a wideband installed so you can monitor, but with that your answer will be logging what the injectors are doing along with monitoring the air fuel ratio. When you see 80ish% duty cycle (given the afr is safe and you’re not seeing any significant knock) that’s when you’re at the safe limit without needing to upgrade the injectors or do any tuning. I also don’t see an higher flowing fuel pump mentioned so that should really be a must with anything other than a stock car as the stock one will be the first thing to fall short and potentially cause a catastrophic failure. There really isn’t a magical “safe” boost number here without logging and seeing for yourself as every single car is different, but at wastegate pressure (and maintaining) you should be fine, although there really are some things you should be watching.

The 1g ecu sees it very differently. He owns a second gen

On a 2g with a 14b it wont let you boost over 14psi without hitting fuel cut.

On a stock 2g with an evo 3 i was getting fuel cut over 12 psi

The 1g maf really lacks definition, to a point where the stock 14b can damage the motor. I think ive seen stories of running 17psi through a stock setup. The 2g really lacks any wiggle room for extra air flow. To a point where I would say a t25 setup vs a 16g setup will probably only net an extra 10hp on stock tuning

 

[ChristianEclipseAuto]

The 1g ecu sees it very differently. He owns a second gen

On a 2g with a 14b it wont let you boost over 14psi without hitting fuel cut.

On a stock 2g with an evo 3 i was getting fuel cut over 12 psi

The 1g maf really lacks definition, to a point where the stock 14b can damage the motor. I think ive seen stories of running 17psi through a stock setup. The 2g really lacks any wiggle room for extra air flow. To a point where I would say a t25 setup vs a 16g setup will probably only net an extra 10hp on stock tuning

Okay. I am confused. I just want this to work without killing the engine. Can I install the 560cc injectors and flash it the my ROM on blackbox (read the article in eatsleepdsm) and still run the t25 turbo to the mechanic. Change the turbo to a t28 and run safe Home? Then there should be fuel enough not to hit the limit of the injectors ? And Can the engine run fine with t25 installed and different injectors?

Fuel me with some good advice here

 

[CrackedDSM]

Yes you can adjust the airflow limit/fuel cut limit in ceddymods, just don’t run the boost too far over 15-16lbs on a t28 or 16G on a stock non-rewired fuel pump.

Once you get a wideband, bigger pump, and toss the 560s in, then up the boost and give it a solid tune.

Edit: just saw you had a Wally 255 and AFPR. Never mind on the boost limit. Would still suggest less than 18lbs until you give it a solid tune.

 

[ChristianEclipseAuto]

Yes you can adjust the airflow limit/fuel cut limit in ceddymods, just don’t run the boost too far over 15-16lbs on a t28 or 16G on a stock non-rewired fuel pump.

Once you get a wideband, bigger pump, and toss the 560s in, then up the boost and give it a solid tune.

Edit: just saw you had a Wally 255 and AFPR. Never mind on the boost limit. Would still suggest less than 18lbs until you give it a solid tune.

Okay Thanks.

So just to be sure. I Can install the 560cc (change the latency like showed on eatsleepdsm) and still Drive my Old t25 to the mechanic to change it to the 14b or t28. I might go with the t28 because I had it rebuild.

But How do I make sure the boost is being on 14-17 lbs like you telling me? Is it corrected in the ceddymods ? Or shall i delete the boost solonoid and run mbc? (Will check engine light accour if I do so) ?

 

[CrackedDSM]

Okay Thanks.

So just to be sure. I Can install the 560cc (change the latency like showed on eatsleepdsm) and still Drive my Old t25 to the mechanic to change it to the 14b or t28. I might go with the t28 because I had it rebuild.

But How do I make sure the boost is being on 14-17 lbs like you telling me? Is it corrected in the ceddymods ? Or shall i delete the boost solonoid and run mbc? (Will check engine light accour if I do so) ?

Yes, you can install the 560's, just make sure you update the size and deadtimes in the ECU w/ ECUFlash. And you control boost with a MBC. I can't remember if CeddyMods has an EBC option like Link, but I'd go with a MBC and just make sure it's at wastegate pressure until you iron out the tune.

I can't recommend you do or do not drive with the T25 as I don't know its current status internally. If it's blown bad enough to send metal back into your oil or engine, that'll cost you an engine. Might be safe to just get it towed up there and have the mechanic change it to a T28(it'll be bolt on, no changing lines or intercooler pipes, etc), then drive it as much as you want.

I always err on the side of caution. Plan for worst case scenario, and hope for the best. ALWAYS.

 

[ChristianEclipseAuto]

Yes you can adjust the airflow limit/fuel cut limit in ceddymods, just don’t run the boost too far over 15-16lbs on a t28 or 16G on a stock non-rewired fuel pump.

Once you get a wideband, bigger pump, and toss the 560s in, then up the boost and give it a solid tune.

Edit: just saw you had a Wally 255 and AFPR. Never mind on the boost limit. Would still suggest less than 18lbs until you give it a solid tune.

Yes, you can install the 560's, just make sure you update the size and deadtimes in the ECU w/ ECUFlash. And you control boost with a MBC. I can't remember if CeddyMods has an EBC option like Link, but I'd go with a MBC and just make sure it's at wastegate pressure until you iron out the tune.

I can't recommend you do or do not drive with the T25 as I don't know its current status internally. If it's blown bad enough to send metal back into your oil or engine, that'll cost you an engine. Might be safe to just get it towed up there and have the mechanic change it to a T28(it'll be bolt on, no changing lines or intercooler pipes, etc), then drive it as much as you want.

I always err on the side of caution. Plan for worst case scenario, and hope for the best. ALWAYS.

Thanks a lot. A manual boost controller i Can easily install. But What about that solonoid there is. Is it the ecu there control the boost through that I and Will it confused the ecu somehow ?

I Will hope for the best

 

[CrackedDSM]

Thanks a lot. A manual boost controller i Can easily install. But What about that solonoid there is. Is it the ecu there control the boost through that I and Will it confused the ecu somehow ?

I Will hope for the best

Keep it plugged in electronically, just take the vacuum lines off of it. ECU will still think everything is functioning like normal.

 

[chrysler kid]

Okay Thanks.

So just to be sure. I Can install the 560cc (change the latency like showed on eatsleepdsm) and still Drive my Old t25 to the mechanic to change it to the 14b or t28. I might go with the t28 because I had it rebuild.

But How do I make sure the boost is being on 14-17 lbs like you telling me? Is it corrected in the ceddymods ? Or shall i delete the boost solonoid and run mbc? (Will check engine light accour if I do so) ?

Before you make any changes you should have a boost gauge and a wideband gauge to monitor your air fuel ratio

You can wire the wireband air fuel ratio to your obd2 port to record the air fuel ratio when you are driving