Crushed Dreams

[leet]

I want to be the first to live in it...

Sweet. What are your strengths and weaknesses?

 

[jongreene]

I would rather be caught street racing and have my car crushed than kill someone while street racing.

Anyone saying its too extreme...I disagree
people shouldve learned their lesson when people started dying.

 

[XakEp]

Property forfeiture is one of the biggest breaches of our legal system ever. And anyone who is agreeing under any circumstance that these cars should have been crushed is a fool who is agreeing with the downfall of our freedoms and legal system.

Wait, this is all a bunch of hippy bullshit.

Hold on there, let me explain. Do you people realize that property ownership (not just land) is the cornerstone of WHY our country exists? That in order to take your property, said property has to be charged with a crime?

Yes, you read that right. Inanimate objects are charged with a crime. Then, since the property cannot defend itself, its then handed over to the state without any red tape.

I wish I was making this up.

First they start with the drug dealers. But since no one wants to be seen as a drug dealer or drug smuggler, they say nothing. Then they came for the street racers. But no one said shit since its illegal.

Next? Firearms. After that? I have no idea. But shame on anyone that supports taking these cars away from their owners for ANY reason. Fines and prison sentances should be handed down, not state sanctioned theft of property.

 

[jongreene]

So if im reading that right you think someones knife shouldnt be taken away if it killed someone?

Someones car shouldnt be taken away if it was taking part in an act that has killed numerous people?

 

[LaN-]

crushing the cars is a bit extreme, but some people do deserve it. Now where to draw the line is a hard thing.

Street racing is not going anywhere, speed is addictive. I find myself wanted to race all the time, but i'm not that stupid. Sure me and my buddies will go crusing up and down the major roads with everyone else. Every now and then do a 2nd gear pull with someone after 3 honks, but never a straight up drag race with someone dropping there hands. Thats just dangerous.

If you where to mix good music with a 1/4 mile track and turn it into a hangout people would show up all the time. Yes the rush of it being illegal is fun, but still if there was a place i could go on the weekends to hangout with my friends maybe run my car i would LOVE IT.

You'd pay 10 - 20 bucks to get in and however much to run. Think about it, if you've got money to put into your ride you should be able to afford that.

There would be a lot of money to be made in that business. You have a performance shop with a hangout and a 1/4 mile stripe. Not only would you make money because of the cars, but the people that would come to watch, the money you'd make from people racing. Its legal and profitable.

I know there are some places that have stuff like that and its proven to reduce the amount of street racing.

Sure i could rank on for awhile about all of this, but i just think they way they go about it is stupid.

In the end all people want is a place to hangout and enjoy the money they have spend on there cars.

 

[XakEp]

So if im reading that right you think someones knife shouldnt be taken away if it killed someone?

Someones car shouldnt be taken away if it was taking part in an act that has killed numerous people?

Knives and cars do not just spontaneously kill people. Quit pointing blame at inanimate objects and put it square on the shoulders of the people commiting these acts.

No, taking someone's property away should NOT be part of the legal process unless that property was stolen. In that case it should be returned to the proper owner. If the proper owner cannot be found, it should be sold and the money donated to the appropriate charity.

Then throw the book at the person who commited the crime.

 

[staticbrainwash]

I would rather be caught street racing and have my car crushed than kill someone while street racing.

Anyone saying its too extreme...I disagree
people shouldve learned their lesson when people started dying.

All i meant was that crushing the car is extreme, the punishment is fine with me. I just think there's better smarter things to do with the cars than crush them.

 

[Deadmoans]

Property forfeiture is one of the biggest breaches of our legal system ever. And anyone who is agreeing under any circumstance that these cars should have been crushed is a fool who is agreeing with the downfall of our freedoms and legal system.

Wait, this is all a bunch of hippy bullshit.

Hold on there, let me explain. Do you people realize that property ownership (not just land) is the cornerstone of WHY our country exists? That in order to take your property, said property has to be charged with a crime?

Yes, you read that right. Inanimate objects are charged with a crime. Then, since the property cannot defend itself, its then handed over to the state without any red tape.

I wish I was making this up.

First they start with the drug dealers. But since no one wants to be seen as a drug dealer or drug smuggler, they say nothing. Then they came for the street racers. But no one said shit since its illegal.

Next? Firearms. After that? I have no idea. But shame on anyone that supports taking these cars away from their owners for ANY reason. Fines and prison sentances should be handed down, not state sanctioned theft of property.

Someone has been reading.....THAT is something the govt doesn't like - at least when it's not their propaganda bullshit.

You are correct about property rights...in fact property rights are sited in the Constitution more than any other topic. On the other side of the coin, why is that? Well think about who wrote the Constitution......property owners!!! The elite of American society. Also remember only 1/3 of Americans supported the revolution, 1/3 supported England and here's the best part 1/3 didn't care.

Another good example of confiscation: here in Iowa about 10 years ago a wife lost her house because her husband was conficted of poaching. Saw this one on 60 Minutes about 5 years ago....a guy who owns a charter airline in Arizona was hired by a guy to fly him somewhere. When they landed the feds confiscated his plane because his customer had drug money in his suitcases. Know how he got his plane back - he bought it back at govt auction. The feds said he had to prove the plane's innocence. They treated the plane as an individual!!!!...how do you prove that.

Put people in prison for streetracing or killing someone while drunk? We need to save those spots for you young kids smokin a blunt occassionally. That's sarcasm by the why. More people die by cigarettes and alcohol then by dope. More people are addicted to PRESCRPTION DURGS attained legally than any other illegal drug. Nicotine is more addictive than CRACK!!!!!!! But we have to have a war on drugs. Like "Deep Throat" told Woodward & Bernstein, "follow the money." Do some reading if you don't get that reference.

Again, how is this connected to the topic at hand.....it shows how stereotypes and so forth impact or laws.....read the history of drug legislation....it started because of racism. When opium was criminalized, the majority of user were white women. But it was associated with the Chinese railroad workers. However, I don't think the stigma attached to streetracers is necessarily all race based, I think a lot of it is generational.

 

[XakEp]

The funny thing is that most people will read these posts and laugh. The sad thing is they're nothing more than the faceless masses who are directly responsible for all of us losing our rights.

Fight to keep them or lose them.

 

[Deadmoans]

The funny thing is that most people will read these posts and laugh. The sad thing is they're nothing more than the faceless masses who are directly responsible for all of us losing our rights.

Fight to keep them or lose them.

Yea, they think it's some political radical rant. People generally don't get it. I have to admit that sometimes I get so angry it's just easier to shut down and not pay attention.

Again, let's relate this back to the topic at hand. Politicans use symbols and slogans to get re-elected. Simply put, they can point to the car crushing and say "see what I'm doing about the problem." Same goes as far as money. Why do you think there's so much pork in legislation, because congressmen have to bring home the money. It doesn't matter if it's necessary for the good of the entire country - just their district.

If arresting people and putting them in jail or throwing boatloads of money at a problem worked - then why are drugs still so prevelant? Same goes for street racing, crushing cars probably will have little effect. And I believe that because it doen't seem to be applied equally....like others have said in this thread, they also need to crush other types of vehicles. There needs to be some creative solutions.

Some of the problem stems from our method of licensing. Why does Germany, which is roughly the size of Washington and Oregon and is the crossroads of Europe, have so many vehicles and so few fatal accidents on highways that have higher speed limits than we do? By the way, the autobahn is about 99% speed restricted. The answer is that they train their drivers. It's not sponsored by the govt, ie schools. They pay private instructors and the training is extensive. Let's face it younger drivers do stupid things. You think insurance is more for younger drivers because they can get away with it - no - it's because the statistics show they are more dangerous.

I'm not going to claim to have the answer to the problem. And I agree street racing is very dangerous.

 

[drivemusicnow]

First, a little perspective.

I understand that most responsible people will jump in outrage at "street racing" and "Excessive speed/speed contest" tickets and say how dare you do such a thing. It's so dangerous and blah blah blah.

I agree, street racing on a public road without any control over the traffic/pedestrians/situation is dangerous. However lets look at some facts:

Street Racing is completely up to the discretion of the officer. It is not defined, nor is there any objective circumstances that control the ticketing of it.
IN CALIFORNIA ALONE, 3000+ "street racing" tickets were given out. IN that same period of time, a total of 26 people were killed in "street racing" related accidents. 290 people were injured in "street racing" related accidents. What does that mean? That it is almost wholly neglible as far as a crime goes. I would ASSume that over half of those are the street racers themselves.

To put it in perspective, IN california, In 2004 alone, there were 480 homicide deaths, when ONLY LOOKING at males between the ages of 20-24.

Or compare it to total deaths in california over the same amount of time, and find that Street racing related deaths account for exactly 0.002230%
of all deaths in California.

Soo lets see, what do we need cops really doing? trying to find and crush street racers, or stopping murderers?

The problem here is abuse of power. If you are on the highway tuning your care and you go over the speed limit (lets face, who can do a 3rd gear pull without breaking the local speed limit) and you happen to pass a random car, lets say a BMW station wagon going approximately 5-7 mph over the speed limit. Cop says you were racing. What happens then? You Get Effed. because this is such a political issue at the top of every crooked poloticians list, you get screwed.



I whole heartedly agree that the person who does stupid shit without any regard for public safety should be nailed hard, but property seizure is not the way to do it. Put the punk ass 17 year old in real jail for a month. Fine him enough where he has to work 40 hours a week just to afford his rent/food/fines.

If there are repeat offenders that you fine, and they just keep doing what they're doing, put them in jail for a year. Or two. They'll figure out as they grow up in jail that its not worth it to race.

 

[XakEp]

Yea, they think it's some political radical rant. People generally don't get it. I have to admit that sometimes I get so angry it's just easier to shut down and not pay attention.

Again, let's relate this back to the topic at hand. Politicans use symbols and slogans to get re-elected. Simply put, they can point to the car crushing and say "see what I'm doing about the problem." Same goes as far as money. Why do you think there's so much pork in legislation, because congressmen have to bring home the money. It doesn't matter if it's necessary for the good of the entire country - just their district.

If arresting people and putting them in jail or throwing boatloads of money at a problem worked - then why are drugs still so prevelant? Same goes for street racing, crushing cars probably will have little effect. And I believe that because it doen't seem to be applied equally....like others have said in this thread, they also need to crush other types of vehicles. There needs to be some creative solutions.

Some of the problem stems from our method of licensing. Why does Germany, which is roughly the size of Washington and Oregon and is the crossroads of Europe, have so many vehicles and so few fatal accidents on highways that have higher speed limits than we do? By the way, the autobahn is about 99% speed restricted. The answer is that they train their drivers. It's not sponsored by the govt, ie schools. They pay private instructors and the training is extensive. Let's face it younger drivers do stupid things. You think insurance is more for younger drivers because they can get away with it - no - it's because the statistics show they are more dangerous.

I'm not going to claim to have the answer to the problem. And I agree street racing is very dangerous.

100% agreed.

 

[Ho0ked]

Afternoon,

Most of you folks belong in a communist country, realy.

The parts you enjoy and the cars you enjoy ALL CAME FROM STREET RACING
You wouldn't even HAVE a "sports" car if it weren't for the advent of street racing, where the HELL do you THINK "leagal" racing came from?????????????????


Yes, people should not street race, its unsafe, but as some of you folks pointed out it's not that unsafe, compared to the myriad of other MUCH worse, deadly problems faced in America.

And yes it's driven by several factors, Honda products in general are much more comon, and easy to mod to go fast, politicians are trying to appeal to the people, American auto manufacturers are being systematicaly put out of business, and various other special interest groups are all putting the boot in our ass's over miniscuel street racing.

Tell you what though,

#1 You can impound my car for ANY reason, after you pry the keys and steering wheel from my cold dead fingers, good luck I own and carry guns in my state.

#2 You CAN crush my car, if I'm already dead, or if I somehow fail to kill you all the way.

#3 The constitution specificaly prevents this type of action, seizing peoples property, hell killing for your property in the old days was standard proceedure.
I'll take your ass to every court in the country untill you lose, and I'll still kill whoever I have to to stop MY PROPERTY from being molested.

It's just like they say for gun control, GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE!

You don't take peoples stuff away, you take the people away, and BTW doing hard time for street racing ranks right up there with busting people for pot, F'ing ingnorant beyond belief !


Street racing is a VITAL, and NECESSARY evil, get it through your heads now, if it dies so does car moding....................

Crush my F'ing car,

in your F'in dreams

Thats the WORD

 

[the_skin_eater]

You'd be suprised what hard work can do. I earned well around 10k when I was 18. A part-time job during the school year brought in ~$5000 and a solid summer internship brought in ~$6000.

Granted if I didn't consume anything but car parts it would have been possible... but I know of other internships that paid upwards of $12000 just for the summer.

Don't be too quick to judge!

I understand this...I made over 6000 in 2 months over summer when I was 18.

But I also had to save that for rent. Plus all my school expenses.

I moved out of my parents house when I was 17. Went down to College....

Maybe Im just stubborn about people who never have to pay their own stuff....They live at home till their 23, no wonder they can afford those cars.

I had crappy hand me downs. No way in hell though Id have that much saved up before I was 18. I spose it doesnt help either that I had to pay sevral thousand in fines too...

 

[BOOstGhost]

Just saw this thread and i'm going to say the same thing. Instead of crushing the cars why not seize them and auction the cars off and donate the money to charities? They're just throwing money away.

 

[Defiant]

Do some more research, and you'll find you never own your car. Have you ever seen your Manufacturer's Certificate? No. It's held by your state.

 

[BigRand]

More fuel to add to the fire....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ9_85d0Mhk

Now I'll admit to being one of those people that used to drive into the gas stations to see what was going on, but police are right (sometimes) there are a lot of illegal activities going on, some most of the people in this video probably desereve whatevers coming to them. Stolen cars, knowling stolen engines, that I'm not down with.

Oh youtube is great, check this video out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ALunMDf104

and one more

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHR-UjdlZsA

 

[Sinner]

You have to remember that most of these people might not have stolen parts on thier car, if you have an engine which the serial number does not match the car and you have no recipt for it then it will be considered stolen even if you bought one of those JDM engines or one from your local junkyard or even if you pull one out of your parts car. You also have to realize that the police have started up a new program so what do they do they go out and find some "street racers" cars to crush to use for an example notice that none of the people in the article were arrested for strret racing they were just part of normal traffic also in some of the video's the officer's claim that people with modifications street race now is'nt that profiling most of the members on this board have modifications on thier cars but are totally against street racing. This is a reason to get involved to show the difference between legal individuals whose have these cars for either show or legal racing and those who are illegal, the same thing happened to the hot rodders in the 50's and look at them now you will never see any hot rod getting this kind of attention yet thier cars are obviously modified but are rarly harrased by the police. I say all of this because I own a hot rod shop and I am always pulled over in my talon for minor reasons of which I rarley get a ticket and no I do not speed or act like a jackass on the street but when I drive any of my classic cars all I get are thumbs up from officers so if you want to make sure this does not get out of hand and the police do not go after the legal members of this board I suggest you join groups like SEMA I am a member and the help filter out and fight the laws that are against the automotive hobby or you could even start car clubs that do only legal events and mabye make strict rules like anyone caught doing anything illegal on the streets is kicked out of the club that is what people in the 50's did to help rid themselfs of the black hex of being some kind of criminal because they drove a hot rod.

 

[jreese86]

Wouldn't this qualify as "cruel and unusual punishment"? (Being forced to watch your car crushed).

While I agree that taking away there car is just punishment, it seems pointless to crush them. Why not remove the stolen parts, and auction the rest? Put the money towards something good...

 

[drivemusicnow]

Something that wasn't mentioned in the article, but I wonder if having their cars crushed was an option given to them by the judge. IE: either you do this, or you end up in jail for several months/years.

 

[projctWraith]

I can see why they are so hard up on busting street racing. If you let your stupidity endanger others you gotta pay. But on the issue of having parts you can prove you paid for getting crushed, bullshi7. Cops are putting way too much emphasis on looking for modified cars or cars with neons calling it illegal equipment. If I were going to empersonate a cop, I wouldn't be using orange neons to do it If the car passed a smog test, it passed a smog test. As the guy paying the cops salary what would you want him to do ? look for stupid petty equipment citations or go stop that guy that just swooped 3 lanes of traffic almost causing a pileup to exit the highway?

 

[roadrunner2176]

I get the point, peoples rights and what not. If your breaking the law, at that exact point in time your rights are void. So if you get pulled over for a broken tail light, that is all you can be written up for, if your speeding, your get a ticket and so on. No official can search your vehicle without warrant, illegal search and seizure, you have to give them something to become suspicious. A drunk driver wont get pulled over unless their weaving on the road, or someone picks up a phone and calls it it. Now when they go back and run your vin and license plate you may have other problems. If they see a history of traffic violations they can proceed as seen fit. Excessive speeding, loss of license for life, can impounded, liscense suspended, whatever are worthy. Crushing ones car seems like a heavy fine, but if they've been fined, ticketed, and caught again without a license, crush it and make then watch. Is it going to stop them, no, just make them want a faster car.

Selling off the parts from the impounded cars sound like a perfect idea, but when you start thinking about it the time it will take a crew of people to part out the cars would cost more than their worth. And you couldn't just sell off the cars or the parts, they would have to be auctioned off; more time and more expense. California has a higher cost of living, so when were talking about an 18 year old kid making 10000 in one year, thats like someone in the midwest making 5000 at a standard 40 hour week, school and part time summers. And where do most parts come from, california, cheap parts and whole bunch of stupid kids makes for stupid kids in cars that have no ideal how to drive. You put them on a track and every single one of them would crash.

As for stolen parts, if your caught with them even though you have a receipt, their still stolen and your out of luck. Which is why there's places like carfax and others where you can run the vin number against the part number to see if their stolen. A local police station will do it for free if they have the time.

My opinion, if your dumb enough to by stolen parts, tough, if you didnt know, prove it. If your street racing, and you have a history, kiss your s**t goodbye, your the idiot, not the police. If your going a few over, you get a ticket, if your side by side with another car, thats suspicion, you problem, not an officers. It's not just california, idiots are everywhere, and cops aren't too far behind.

 

[drivemusicnow]

I get the point, peoples rights and what not. If your breaking the law, at that exact point in time your rights are void.

No, they're not, you lose game over.

Selling off the parts from the impounded cars sound like a perfect idea, but when you start thinking about it the time it will take a crew of people to part out the cars would cost more than their worth. And you couldn't just sell off the cars or the parts, they would have to be auctioned off; more time and more expense. California has a higher cost of living, so when were talking about an 18 year old kid making 10000 in one year, thats like someone in the midwest making 5000 at a standard 40 hour week, school and part time summers. And where do most parts come from, california, cheap parts and whole bunch of stupid kids makes for stupid kids in cars that have no ideal how to drive. You put them on a track and every single one of them would crash.

First they already have a system in place to auction off vehicles, and it would be somewhat easy to sell them to performance shops that could be required to part them out. Second your ASSumption of the higher standard of living is much higher than it really is, and then you also ASSume stupid things about the vehicle owners of which you have no actual knowledge. Sure it's easy to claim someone can't drive, but you have no idea and therefor shouldn't state it as fact.

As for stolen parts, if your caught with them even though you have a receipt, their still stolen and your out of luck. Which is why there's places like carfax and others where you can run the vin number against the part number to see if their stolen. A local police station will do it for free if they have the time.

My opinion, if your dumb enough to by stolen parts, tough, if you didnt know, prove it. If your street racing, and you have a history, kiss your s**t goodbye, your the idiot, not the police. If your going a few over, you get a ticket, if your side by side with another car, thats suspicion, you problem, not an officers. It's not just california, idiots are everywhere, and cops aren't too far behind.

It's not nearly as easy as you would think to make sure you are not buying stolen parts, and the law only states that if you purchase stolen goods (without knowledge of said crime) you don't actually own it, not that you're guilty of stealing.

And heres the kicker... Requote

If your street racing, and you have a history, kiss your s**t goodbye, your the idiot, not the police. If your going a few over, you get a ticket, if your side by side with another car, thats suspicion, you problem, not an officers. It's not just california, idiots are everywhere, and cops aren't too far behind.

Are you effing kidding me? Street racing, and the ridiculous stigma it now holds, CANNOT be a "oh well, you could have been doing it, so i'm going to eff your life up and maybe if you hire a good lawyer and drop a couple grand you'll be okay"

That's what DUI has turned into. and it's pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. Our judicial system is based on the fact that you're innocent until proven guilty, but DUI and now streetracing are "assumed guilt" crimes that can seriously effect your well being.

 

[the_skin_eater]

A cop racing...

HELLLLS YA!!!!

 

[leet]

It would seem that most of the modern day Judiciary works on the 'Assumed Guilt' premise.