Power Steering to Manual Steering Conversion [Merged 4-8]

[DSMRevolution]

I am creating the thread to discuss the pros and cons of the power steering to manual steering conversion. There really hasn't been that much discussion to this so I figured it was about time! Anyways, here we go...



1. When converting to manual steering is it best to use the stock power steering rack or convert to a 1.8L manual rack?

2. Is the ratio of the manual rack going to be to small for autocrossing? Or wouldn't you even want to consider manual steering for autocrossing?

3. If you want to use the stock power steering rack for manual steering insted of using a manual rack, what would you want to remove or change to do this?

4. I was thinking about converting to manual steering, but I am not sure if I want to. Before I decide to convert can I just remove the power steering belt and see how I like it before going through the trouble of converting?

5. Will the power steering rack go bad if it doesn't have fluid in it?

6. Can the power steering rack be reused if it was once used for manual steering?

7. But most of all, what do you like and dislike about manual steering?



Feel free to ask anymore questions in this thread regarding manual steering or answer whatever you please. Thanks!

 

[tsiAWD91x]

also is that nuckel on the end of the steering colum swapable cause i think the spline groves are stripped also as well as the spline pin on the rack??(iv only done the engine build not to fimliair with the suspension and drive train)

thanks alot

rob

 

[slugsgomoo]

This is the bracket that holds the rack on the passenger side right?

If so: MB315178

 

[Rx3]

For future reference:


http://www.partsformitsubishi.com


They have the online parts lookup and diagrams.

 

[waggi32]

I know this has been talked about before but I never did see if someone had posted a part number or whether the 1G rack will fit. I am trying to find a manual steering rack for my 2G and I do not want to just loop the lines on the power rack. Thanks for any help.

Chris

 

[RamenPride]

I know this has been talked about before but I never did see if someone had posted a part number or whether the 1G rack will fit. I am trying to find a manual steering rack for my 2G and I do not want to just loop the lines on the power rack. Thanks for any help.

Chris

a 1G rack will not work

some of the 1.8's (base model 1G) had manual steering

all 2G's came with power steering

 

[waggi32]

I realize that all 2Gs came with power steering. What I am looking for is if someone knows of a manual steering rack that would work on a 2G as I am looking to remove mine. Thanks though.

 

[slugsgomoo]

why do you want to remove yours? Frankly, there isn't a whole lot of weight savings, though I like the feel of manual steering better (my 1g has the manual rack).

If you want manual steering, you can fill it with fluid and loop the lines, and then you'll just have a very short ratio manual steering box. Some people have run that way for quite some time with no apparent ill effects. [shrug]

 

[giester2]

Some people have run that way for quite some time with no apparent ill effects. [shrug]

The length of time that the power rack will last being ran as a manual depends on the driving habits of the person behind the wheel. Eventually the the teeth on the rack shaft and pinion shaft will wear (and it will wear quicker than if it was still being used hydraulically) and you will experience steering problems. To fix it..replace the rack when that happens

 

[99redgst]

Has anyone ever seen this technique used before to depower a steering rack? The link is for a Miata but I would assume most power racks are simialar in construction. This may be a better alternitive to just looping the lines. I have an extra steering rack sitting around that I will try to perform this on. Just wondering if anyone has seen this or have experence with rack modified like this.

http://flyinmiata.com/tech/depower.php?x=1

 

[mujgy]

Thats a very interesting concept. The only thing that I could think of is you're still losing the mechanical advantage of the power assist on a steering rack that was engineered for power steering. Perhaps, however, by removing all the fluid seals and fluid you are reducing some of the resistance that would be otherwise felt by leaving them in. It must work to some degree otherwise I don't see why they would go through the trouble. I wonder what the ratio is on a Miata rack?

I think that its great that you are going to try this out on a spare rack, and it should be interesting how similar or dissimilar the DSM rack is to a Miata rack.

Keep us posted.

mujgy

 

[99redgst]

Well I finally got to taking the rack apart last night. I didn't take the time to take pics as I wasn't sure what the result would be. The internals of the rack differ somewhat from the miatas. However ther is one main seal on the shaft which must be removed. When all was said and done the end result seems to be a rack with less turning effort than with looped lines(this comparrison done with the rack off of the car). I can't give any driving impressions at this time as I have just finished th AWD conversion and in the process of building a six bolt. I will let you know how it goes once the car is driving but that may be a while. If anyone else is interested in doing this I will help with any questions. If you read the miata walk through, have a factory service manual and enough mechanical ability to get the rack out of the car you should have no problem with this mod, however at this time its really not clear if it is worthwhile. I just happened to have an extra rack sitting here so I thought I would experment. I also have access to an alignment rack so if it doesn't work oput I can put the old rack back in with the only cost of the mod being my labor.

 

[jtmcinder]

How much can you bench? How many reps?

Just wondering.

- Jtoby

 

[allgripnoslip]

My power steering is leaking from the rack and Id like to do this mod... however I can only bench 170

 

[99redgst]

Not really sure how much I can bench but I have already driven the car for a year with the lines looped. I am also running 245/45/16 tires and a 350mm Momo steering wheel which doesn't help the steering effort. I figure the steering effort can only be less than having to push the fluid through the rack. I much prefer the feeling of manual steering over power, I wish there was a better alternative but this is the best I can do at the moment.

 

[SILV BLT]

Any update on this? I'd love to switch to manual steering in my car if it was tolerable for daily driving. I also auto-x so I need to be able to turn pretty fast at slower speeds.

 

[99redgst]

My car isn't up and running yet so I can't give a review of the mod yet. However I don't think it would be an ideal setup for auto-xing. I'll be sure to give an update once I get my car up and running, although it will probably be a while the rate this project is going.

 

[jtmcinder]

The only positive I can say about doing this mod to an autocrosser is that you will no longer be suddenly surprised by PS cut-out in the middle of a tight sequence of turns.

Please keep in mind that Miatas are RWD and weigh something like 800# less than a DSM.

- Jtoby

ps. I, too, have a 350 mm wheel and the one time my PS cut out just about destroyed my right shoulder; if you can autocross a DSM without PS, remind me not to pick a (physical) fight with you

 

[90gst_sean]

I'm in the middle of a engine swap from fwd to awd and I have a decision to make.



DO I SWAP IN A RACK AND PINION OR FIX THE LEAKS IN MY POWER STEERING AND PUT IT BACK??



The AWD vehicle I'll be swapping over to has power steering. The problem there is that the previous owner did a crap job of pulling the pump and reservoir. He cut the lines and left them to run dry. I really don't want to put my engine in there just to find out the power rack has gone bad.



My second option is to pull the power rack out of the FWD Eclipse I'm driving now and swap it into the AWD shell. The problem here is this rack leaks a little and needed to be rebuilt.



Third option is to pick up a manual rack and pinion from the pull a part and scrap both power racks all together.



Ether way I'll have to pull the racks and do a decent amount of labor. That said what would give me the most for my hours worked?

 

[Auto RS T]

The rack comes out the bottom of the car and having the engine in really doesn't have an effect on pulling the rack.

What you need to decide is if you want power steering or not. With a manual rack you won't have to deal with the power steering pump, lines, or reservoir. So if your looking to save time this may be the way to go.

Either route you go I wouldn't suggest putting a leaking rack back into the car. Its all basically the same amount of work minus the lines, pump, reservoir etc.

 

[JayRolla]

Yea mine is removed and some times I like it and some times I hate it. I dont have the manual rack installed though and that would help. Only problem with manual steering is it doubles how much you have to turn the steering wheel to make the same turn, if that makes sense.

 

[91 GSX]

Is it possible to convert a manual steering rack out of a 1.8 liter eclipse, into the same gear ratio as the 2.0 liter power steering rack? Maybe by using parts (gears) from both units, and still not needing power steering fluid (pump). I'm thinking a manual rack just needs heavy duty chassis, or bearing grease. How is it that the manual racks don't need steering fluid, and power racks must? (more pressure?, smaller gears creating more friction and heat?).

 

[dsmputz]

For all you guys that did the manual steering rack conversion, where did you get the rack itself? I have looked through every salvage yard around and can't find any. Are you guys buying them new (remanufactured) or miraculously finding them in junk yards? Any ideas on where to find them would be greatly appreciated.
Robby A

 

[1qkfwd]

I got mine from a wrecking yard out of a low model 1.8 eclipse.

 

[SBstar]

Most are found in the junk yards or on any of the dsm classifieds...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=59574&cat=7
$250 shipped

http://www.dsmsource.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=11041&cat=2
Make offer

Just search around you'll find one...if I may ask however, why are you wanting to do this?

 

[eldiabloz13]

a lot of non turbo eclipses had them. Not always the turbo. Basic crap model dsm's had them.