Varying Clutch Engagement [Merged 1-9] bleeding air floor stuck grinding

[BoostInsideTSi]

Okay, folks, for some unknown reason, we're now getting three threads a week started about clutch malfunctions.
The usual cause is that the system hasn't been properly bled.

Have at it.

I put in a used, but in good condition master cylinder, to replace the one I had before with a broken rubber seal. I did not bleed any components, I simply took out the old one, and bolted the new one up. Then I proceeded to fill the reservoir with dot 3 brake fluid. Bubbles rose to the top of the reservoir, then I topped it off after the fluid ran down into the system. I looked at the clutch pedal and noticed it was still sitting on the floor. I tried pulling it up off the floor, but it only went up a few inches. Probably some adjusting that needs to be done with the rod is causing that. Anyway when I pull it up there is quite a bit of resistance, where when I let go the pedal just pulls right back to the floor. I've heard there is a vacuum going on, where with air in the system, it is just pulling that sucker right back. I tried pumping the crap out of the pedal with a friend opening the bleeder valve and I just shoot clutch fluid everywhere.. I Stop after about 50 pumps and put more fluid and keep going, but notice no improvement. Does anyone know what I need to do? Can anyone verify it is the air in the system causing my problem? Thank you,
Mike

 

[-Z-]

no leaks iv spent hours looking

 

[Lofty]

This isn't a magical mystery. It can be all of these things.

Are your banjo bolts and fittings all tight? Look for leaks on the ground.

How far is the master threaded into the clutch pedal? Buy a Haynes to check pedal play and all that.

There could be a pinhole leak in one of your lines, check them over very good.

You may be bleeding it the wrong way, how are you bleeding the lines?

Once you replace these you have to bleed it a VERY long time, dsm's are notorious for letting air in.

Are one of the parts faulty?

Have a buddy push in the clutch and get under the car, I can bet the transmission is loose.

This is really all it could be, or you broke your clutch pedal.

 

[-Z-]

all fittings are tight and not crossed threaded i do have a haynes manual did the steps on adjusting the clutch master cylinder rod iv even marked with a sharpie where my fluid level was drove the car for a week and checked it and its stuill at the same mark so im pretty sure theres no leaks as far as bleeding goes i have a buddy push and hold the clutch to the floor open/close the bleeder have him release than repeat i dont think its ossible to get two faulty parts cause like i said i was thinking that also so i took the slave and master back to the parts store and relaced them as far as the tranny being loose ill double check that one

just checked the tranny to see if it was loose and its not but i noticed a crack running accross the id plate towards the motor would that cause my problems

 

[Defiant]

Maybe. Look at it when the pedal's pushed by someone else. Otherwise:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dri...ch-killing-pump-up.html?highlight=clutch+pump

 

[Lofty]

Maybe. Look at it when the pedal's pushed by someone else.

Agreed. It's sometimes hard to tell if somethings moving or not unless you have a buddy press on the clutch while you're under it.

 

[Demon33]

alright iv searched for hours and cant find any help on my problem

iv replaced the clutch throw out bearing pressure plate slave and master cylinders ill bleed the system for hours and ill be 100% sure there is no air in the line full of fluid and ill have damn good clutch pressure but everytime i start the car i lose all pressure and it wants to grind when i put it into any gear unless i catch the rpms just right than it will shift fine or if i pump the clutch im not losing any fluid any where and all my lines are tight does anybody know whats going on cause im lost and so far 4 tranmission shops cant figure this out

Where does the clutch engage? Is it close to the floor or really high up in the pedal travel? I didn't see any mention about your flywheel. Did you verify the step height (distance from flywheel friction surface to clutch mounting points) is correct for your clutch? RRE has a good write up on this here.

Basically, the correct step height should be 0.608" to 0.613". If the step is too large, the clutch will engage higher up when the pedal is released and may even slip a little. If the step is too small, the clutch will engage closer to the floor and may not fully disengage when the pedel depressed.

Because your tranny wants to grind when shifting, I suspect the clutch may not be disengaging fully which could be caused by air in the line or incorrect step height among other things. Hope this helps.

 

[mitsu-luver]

if you have no pressure at all you got some other alien problem, but if you mean "no pressure as in barely any" try this, Ive had this problem many times after doing motor swaps on various cars . it sucks. but try letting the system "gravity bleed". simply let it sit there with the bleeder+reservoir cap open for a while, or even over night that should help a lot. and even after that it wont be perfect like it used to be. just drive it around and it will get better (or at least it does for me)

 

[Jeff@Slowboy]

I would check the hydraulic system first (Master, Slave, Lines) Also I have had a tab break off my TOB with similar symptoms. With 187k it would probably be wise to check your clutch fork and pivot ball.

Oliver
[email protected]

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

Here are the things I would look at if it were mine.
1) check the fluid in the reservior for the clutch master cyl. (is it empty?)
2) check the slave cyl. operation at the bell housing of trans. (is it moving in and out)
3) check the clutch release arm going into the trans. (is it broken?)

 

[JusMX141]

Sounds like you ran it out of fluid (obvious leak somewhere). Look for a wet slave cylinder (at the bell housing) or master cylinder (leaks under dash). Replace these parts if necessary.

My starting point would be the master cylinder. Stop and think of how many times the clutch has been depressed over the course of that mileage- the piston will eventually oval out the aluminum bore, causing fluid to start to leak through and saturate your carpeting.

Proper adjustment is also key:

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[cheap90gsx]

sounds like it needs to be bled but you didn't take anything apart.

 

[TSiAWD666]

In line with the other suggestions, look near your left foot in the footwell and look for clutch fluid. I'm betting your master cylinder blew.

 

[gravityforce]

My Laser did the same thing a few months back, it ended up being a bad slave cylinder. its a cheap and easy part to replace.

 

[gravityforce]

All you need is basic hand tools, the slave is the easiest one to replace of the two, Ive never had to replace a master yet so I cant really speak on that aside from saying it looks simple as well ...

Dude you need to get yourself a Haynes manual like yesterday...

 

[gravityforce]

Go get yourself a lifetime warranty slave from Auto Zone, Im pretty sure I paid around $40 for mine, start with that and top off the fluid, I bet that solves your problem. BTW if I remember correctly the slave is in with two 10 or 12mm bolts and the hydraulic line, use a couple of wrenches to undo the line, its maybe a 30 minute job... good luck.
BTW while your at the parts store get yourself a Haynes manual

 

[hediki12]

hey im in my car now i looked on vfaq and that youtube vid. and i cant figure out how to get the locking nut off..... im wondering what size tool i should use... i tryed 14 and 13 and neither work.. it seems realy stock and i dont wanna mess up the bult pattern .. man its a real awkward position...

 

[97boostedTSI]

are you trying to adjust pedal travel? if so lay on your back underneath your steering wheel and look ABOVE your clutch pedal. There will be a rod coming out of the master cylinder with a 12mm nut at the far end of it. Turn the rod counterclockwise to move the engagement closer to the flower.. Clockwise if you are trying to bring the pedal farther up off the floor

 

[92AWDHX40]

GEt a small adjustable wrench it will fit.

 

[-Z-]

alright i checked my pedal after all your suggestions and heres the thing the pedel wont come up the last 2 or 3 inches unless i force it by hand and once its up all the way that 2 or 3 inches i was just talking about the pedal acts like its "slipping" it barely moving the master rod untill it gets past that point is any of this making sense cause its not too me

 

[hediki12]

i gave up... i realy cant get the bolt to budge.... idk what im doing wrong.... no i cant go to school.. the clutch wont disengage....

 

[97boostedTSI]

not trying to be a jackass or anything but are you turning it the correct way?? try spraying a little pb blaster or wd40 on it and let it soak for a bit if you seriously cannot break it loose. I assume mine had never been touched and it came loose (80K miles) with just a little tug.

 

[khartley]

Mine is the same way, it is so dirty that the nut is stuck on a bunch of grime, so basically my quick fix was just turning the bolt which also turned the rod, it'll stay in place for a little while. If your car is stuck engaged, then you would need to be turning counter clockwise. Try getting a pair of locking pliers on the rod, have it as clean as possible so there is no grease making it slippery.

If all else fails, plan on taking your master cylinder out and getting the nut loose that way.

 

[rbwtrans]

Be sure to check that the small bolt under the starter is installed. Without this little bolt there is only 40% of the bellhousing that is bolted to the engine. This will also cause the trans to pull away from the engine under load, causing your clutch to go to the floor. It WILL also cause your bellhousing to crack. Good luck.

 

[90-GST]

yesterday while driving i went to slow down for a stop sign and it wouldnt go into any gear but reverse, and when i did that, it died. there was a really odd smell coming from the engine bay that i have never smelled before and dont know how to describe it. with the car off it goes into gear fine. i was thinking the shift fork might have went out, as when i was driving the day before, it drove like normal, but slightly smelled like i was burning clutch. i'd rather not buy the part, if i dont need it. can anyone help me out?

 

[dsmloverguy90]

Sounds like a clutch to me. If it was a shift fork the shifter would flop around and you wold have noticed.