Clutch-Type Front LSD

[Greeno]

My clutch-type Front LSD makes my Talon drive like a locked in 4WD, has anyone else using the Evo LSD Front Diff had this issue? did I over torque the bolts on the carrier? Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[jtmcinder]

Have you read: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drivetrain-tech/399078-evo-2-transmission-2g.html

Then please say exactly which diff you have.

 

[Greeno]

W5M33-2-WPGE is my tranny code, which is why I was 100% shocked to find out that there was indeed an LSD front diff inside. Every reference list I've come across says that is the code for a non-LSD Evo 2, but there is in fact a clutch pack LSD inside

 

[pneumo]

What type of center diff do you have?
If it's a welded diff then it'll constantly apply torque to the front diff causing it to lock up.

Is the front diff gear ratio the same?

 

[twicks69]

The front differential ring gear and output pinion shaft would have to be swapped out if you used this transmission in a DSM with the DSM transfer case and DSM rear differential.

If these things were changed, you should see a small bit of pull under low load/decel with the clutch type front diff and it wouldn't be noticable under full load.

This would also be noticable with a welded center differential.

Could you please post further information regarding what you changed when you installed this transmission into your car?

 

[Greeno]

Thanks for the quick responses folks. I swapped the front ring and pinion to the 58 tooth ring gear, and matching pinion. I used the 58 tooth because the car is also running a 96 or prior T-case, despite being a 98. The center differential is the stock 2 spider, no mods or welding there. The biggest time I notice the resistance is turning corners at low speeds. The front wheels stay locked together to the point that it is causing serious wear issues on my tires after approximately 2000km of daily driving. If there is any more information I can add, please let me know.

 

[twicks69]

What gear oil are you running? You may have too much lockup or already have a damaged LSD diff in the trans. I use Redline 75W140NS in mine with the RALLIART clutch type front diffs.

Have you checked the Tcase to confirm that it is infact a 91-96?

 

[Greeno]

Redline Heavy Shockproof - I've read that this is one of the better oils to extend the life of the T/E/L trannies, yet I just noticed on their website that it is "Not recommended for most synchro applications due to the product's extreme slipperiness"

I'm not saying that's pertinent to my problem, as the transmission shifts like a dream compared to any of the other Talons I've driven, just interesting to read that on the manufacturers website.

As far as the T-Case being the 91-96 yes, I'm sure, I checked it as per the instructional video from Jack's.

Here's a bit of back story, for reference. When I purchased the car I knew that the owner wasn't much of a DSM'er, and that he had work done by a questionable shop. Turned out the transmission was swapped in without having the ring/pinion gear swap performed. After having the thing 'lock up' on me during my first trip that consisted of more than 10 miles of pavement, I assumed the worst (wrong drive ratio on the front) and pulled the tranny. After replacing the ring/pinion gears, along with new bearings, seals, etc. The car drives great, except for the issue I'm describing now, my limited slip, behaving like a solid front axle.

When I added the Heavy Shockproof, I did NOT add any limited slip friction modifier, to be honest, I had somehow made it this far without even hearing about the stuff. Is it possible my problem is as simple as a bottle of this stuff?

edit: I should also clarify that I'm away from my car for another 2 weeks, or I probably would have just tried a bottle of the stuff.

 

[jtmcinder]

A bit of searching taught me that the clutch-type LSD MB860149 not only fits in a W5M33-2-WPGE, but also that some Evo 2s actually came that way. Maybe that's what you have.

 

[twicks69]

Personally, I am putting my finger on saying you are using the wrong gear oil with the clutch type diff. Don't get me wrong, heavyweight shockproof works great, but it is likely causing too much lockup. I had used heavyweight for my rear diff and had too much lockup; I am also running a RALLIART clutch type rear differential.

For the transmission, I would strongly recommend Redline 75w140NS (No-Slip). It is designed specifically for use with clutch type differentials or brass synchronizers.

I would likely do at least one or two flushes with a basic cheapo GLI-4 non-synthetic 80w90 gear oil (~2qts will drain out of the 2.4qt capacity) driving like 10-100 miles each before replacing with the 75w149NS SL you can get a majority of the heavyweight shockproof residue out of the transmission. Worst case scenario, you might need to tear down the trans and disassemble the front diff and center diff to clean oiling passages as they are likely clogged with parrafin residue.

 

[Greeno]

Thanks Tim, and everyone, I will try the different oil after a couple of flushes to get the Heavy shockproof out, do you run the Friction modifier in the 75w140NS fluid? or just straight out of the bottle?

As a secondary addendum to this, would it be possible to find a translated version of the JDM service manual to see if the torque specs are different for my LSD versus the standard 100 lb/ft that the domestic service manual says to torque those bolts too? I know it's a long shot, and maybe I should consider going to an open diff since my goals for this car aren't stupendous (400 whp) But I stumbled into this setup that many guys end up shelling out a considerable amount of cash for, and I'd like to use it if at all possible.

 

[twicks69]

Thanks Tim, and everyone, I will try the different oil after a couple of flushes to get the Heavy shockproof out, do you run the Friction modifier in the 75w140NS fluid? or just straight out of the bottle?

As a secondary addendum to this, would it be possible to find a translated version of the JDM service manual to see if the torque specs are different for my LSD versus the standard 100 lb/ft that the domestic service manual says to torque those bolts too? I know it's a long shot, and maybe I should consider going to an open diff since my goals for this car aren't stupendous (400 whp) But I stumbled into this setup that many guys end up shelling out a considerable amount of cash for, and I'd like to use it if at all possible.

Torque specs for what? The ring gear?

As for the gear oil, straight out of the bottle. If you want less lockup, add the friction modifier if you don't like how the 75W140 NS reacts.

 

[Greeno]

Yes, those bolts that hold the ring gear to the carrier also hold both halves of the carrier together, when I was putting them in, I torqued them to 100 ft/lbs since that's what the service manual said for a USDM unit

 

[twicks69]

Yup, that's fine, just make sure you have the two Phillips head machine screws in the diff before installing the ring gear.