Varying Clutch Engagement [Merged 1-9] bleeding air floor stuck grinding

[BoostInsideTSi]

Okay, folks, for some unknown reason, we're now getting three threads a week started about clutch malfunctions.
The usual cause is that the system hasn't been properly bled.

Have at it.

I put in a used, but in good condition master cylinder, to replace the one I had before with a broken rubber seal. I did not bleed any components, I simply took out the old one, and bolted the new one up. Then I proceeded to fill the reservoir with dot 3 brake fluid. Bubbles rose to the top of the reservoir, then I topped it off after the fluid ran down into the system. I looked at the clutch pedal and noticed it was still sitting on the floor. I tried pulling it up off the floor, but it only went up a few inches. Probably some adjusting that needs to be done with the rod is causing that. Anyway when I pull it up there is quite a bit of resistance, where when I let go the pedal just pulls right back to the floor. I've heard there is a vacuum going on, where with air in the system, it is just pulling that sucker right back. I tried pumping the crap out of the pedal with a friend opening the bleeder valve and I just shoot clutch fluid everywhere.. I Stop after about 50 pumps and put more fluid and keep going, but notice no improvement. Does anyone know what I need to do? Can anyone verify it is the air in the system causing my problem? Thank you,
Mike

 

[justinhill98gst]

long story short, I bought a master and a slave cylinder today, because the pedal keeped getting sloppy, i put the new master and slave in, and bleed the lines and i get done the pedal is still nice a tight. I pump it a few more times and then it get stuck on the floor(bleed screw closed tight) so i lift the pedal back up and push down again and all the pressure is there again like it never lost pressure what's making it get stuck to the floor once and a wail? i been working on this for almost 9 hours! and i can not find whats going on! there does not seem to be any leak in the lines. Is there away to check if there a leak be sids pump the clutch pedal? i would like to figure this out tomorrow so leave me some help please!

clutch is a act 2600 and a fidanza light weight fly wheel

 

[brassc2007]

that means that you still have air in the lines

 

[brassc2007]

I used to have problems bleeding them to have you tried to open the bleeder then push it to the floor and close the bleeder and pull the pedal back up by hand to pull fluid into the line, and then bleed it normally? And how are you bleeding it? what method

 

[justinhill98gst]

I put brake fluid in, pump a few times hold the clutch down to the floor and crack the bleeder and close it then pump again.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

It's also important that you don't overfill the master. It can cause suction in the reservoir that will sometimes suck air in where the reservoir connects to the master.

It sounds stupid, but I fixed a Honda with that problem after the customer had lived with the problem for years. He had been through several masters over the years, and had finally ended up just having it bled every month or so when it became undrivable. It was filled to the rim (way past the max line). I took some fluid out for him, and he never had the issue again. It's amazing how the little things make people so happy.

 

[justinhill98gst]

Ok ill look over that and retry bleeding it,eh 9 hours of my day went to waste

 

[14spectre88]

I think your bleeding method might be the problem. Here's how I do it (with help from a friend):
Open the reservoir and put fluid in. Close it afterward.
Loosen the bleeder and push the pedal to the floor.
With the pedal down, tighten the bleeder then pull the pedal up.
Keep repeating until all the air is out of the lines (fluid stops spurting out and shoots in a steady stream).
Remember to fill the reservoir when it gets low.

Like I said this might be the problem...

 

[deerhunter0881]

that's sounds good another thing that i was told to do is when all the air is out, close the spout in mid stream don't know if that helps. That is what I do now???

 

[Colt4G63 also]

They do require a lot of bleeding sometimes.

You need two people to do it right, and when you think it's good, do it a bunch more, because the air has a way of hiding in there. I learned that the hard way.

 

[justinhill98gst]

Ok i bleed it and its still doing the same thing.. if you pump slow its looses pressure and drops to the floor then i pick the pedal back up and pump it slow again and its stiff again? where are the most common leaks on these? Whats the best way to check for leaks?

 

[habitatguy187]

Newer Exedy stage 1 disc and PP, new master and slave cylinders, bled for over an hour (on 3different occasions).

When I start the car cold the engagement point is RIGHT off the floor, but after driving around a little the engagement point moves up about 2 inches. If I do a highway drive the engagement point usually moves to about the middle of the pedal, and if I do a lot of engine braking it moves up almost to the top of the pedal.

What's up with this? I've tested it and it's very consistent, also if I hammer on the clutch a lot it will move the engagement point up, I'm lost

 

[anmGST]

Have you tried the master cylinder rod adjustment under the dash?

 

[habitatguy187]

Have you tried the master cylinder rod adjustment under the dash?

Yeah I had to adjust it all the way out just so that the clutch would disengage properly.

 

[daren_p]

If this is the 1g in your profile, you shouldn't suffer from pedal pump up, like a 2g, so that shouldn't be an issue. If your sure you've bleed it properly (which method did you use?), hows your clutch pedal assembly, is there any wear? This is a common issue on 1g's.

 

[habitatguy187]

If this is the 1g in your profile, you shouldn't suffer from pedal pump up, like a 2g, so that shouldn't be an issue. If your sure you've bleed it properly (which method did you use?), hows your clutch pedal assembly, is there any wear? This is a common issue on 1g's.

Bled it according to Haynes, then using the slave like Defiant says, done it having someone pump 3 times and hold, and last time I did it having someone pump once and hold. Each time we did it for at least half an hour.

Clutch pedal assembly is fine also. 99gstracer said he is having the same problem.

 

[bling5tatus]

If you continue to get bubbles in your clutch fluid and have to pump for half an hour, then you have an air leak some where that needs to be fixed. There is no reason to have to bleed the clutch that long. remember to submerge a vacuum line attached to the slave nipple in a small container of brake fluid so that no air can be sucked back in during the bleeding process.

 

[JackM]

Yeah I had to adjust it all the way out just so that the clutch would disengage properly.

You shouldn't just blindly adjust it all the way out. It sounds to me like you have the clutch pedal pump up issue which, yes, it can happen with 1Gs too.

Another thought is do you have a FACTORY from Mitsu master cylinder in there? If it's some ebay or autoparts store POS throw it in the trash and get one from Mits.

Jack

 

[habitatguy187]

You shouldn't just blindly adjust it all the way out. It sounds to me like you have the clutch pedal pump up issue which, yes, it can happen with 1Gs too.

Jack[/QUOTE]

I'll search the pedal pump up, I've heard of it but never looked into it since I thought it only pertained to 1G's. Thanks for the tip!

Another thought is do you have a FACTORY from Mitsu master cylinder in there? If it's some ebay or autoparts store POS throw it in the trash and get one from Mits.

Yeah I've read you say that before but I couldn't justify spending so much money on an oem one when I've read sooooo many people use the aftermarkets.

I don't think it's the master or slave though (but I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as you are) because first I rebuilt the stock master, then I bought got rid of the oem slave and bought an aftermarket, then I bought an aftermarket master, and none of this has changed one bit from using the oem's to the aftermarkets.

I'll read into the pedal pump up though and please let me know what you think. If you think an oem master and slave will fix it then I'll put them on my parts list , if not then I'll wait till they go out and get another one with the 2 year warranty I got.

 

[JackM]

People that do not use an OEM master and don't have issues with it must be very lucky. Every single one from every autoparts store has failed in some way for us. The Mitsu one is the only one that seems to move fluid the best and not break while you're sitting at an intersection.

Having said that though if you have had this issue with other masters then the master is not the problem. Can you push the slave piston in with your finger? If you can't, then you have the master rod adjusted out too far and you have clutch pedal pump up. If you can push it in with your finger then I'm afraid I'm clueless on that one...

Jack

 

[AlphaAssault]

my car seems to have the same issues with the shifter. it shifts like a dream when the trans is cold, but as i drive it, the notchier it gets. ive tried several different transmission fluids, and redline MT90 has been the best, but its still notchy. what i think im going to try is a non-synthetic gl-4 fluid, and see if that helps any.

 

[bigal07]

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - Shifter Cable Stiffeners Bushing Kit: Mitsubishi Eclipse 90-99

I'd go with these, their just skateboard wheel bearings so you could make them youself instead of buy them welded together, your choice, search skateboard bearing mod.

 

[Mike98GS-T]

I've been driving my car everyday now, I work full time, so I need it. What I've noticed lately that's been happening with the clutch pedal is that when I first start the car up, the clutch pedal feels fine. It grabs and let's go at a real nice point for me which makes it easy to drive. However, after I drive the car around the clutch pedal becomes more and more stiff. Not so much actually "harder" to push it, just the engage/disengagement point almost changes. I recently pulled the motor out and put in a new crank and matching bearings. When I pulled the transmission apart from the motor I noticed the throw out bearing was actually broken. I replaced that, but I do not think I replaced it with the correct throw out bearing. I got an "OEM Replacement" from Advance Auto when I know I've been told multiple times to just get an Original Genuine Mitsubishi one. Maybe that is my problem? I have also tried to bleed the clutch multiple times now. I broke the slave cylinder at one point about a month back and replaced it with one from Auto Zone. Ever since I replaced my crank and bearings I've had problems getting the clutch pedal adjusted correctly and bled correctly. I will also add, that when I do bleed the clutch with a friend, after he gets done holding down the clutch pedal it just sticks to the floor. Either me or him then have to manually pull the pedal up off the floor and then the pedal continues to pump like normal.

All just very strange to me. Any help or advise is greatly appreciated as I am now living on my own and don't really have the extra money to take the car to a mechanic and have them check it out. If it's something I can fix, I'm going to do my best to try and fix it.

Thanks.

 

[1fst2g]

have you tried adjusting the master cylinder rod behind the clutch pedal? maybe the bolt is loose.

 

[habitatguy187]

Search for "Pedal Pump Up"

 

[4g63t]

I will also add, that when I do bleed the clutch with a friend, after he gets done holding down the clutch pedal it just sticks to the floor. Either me or him then have to manually pull the pedal up off the floor and then the pedal continues to pump like normal.


Thanks.

this is normal, it happens when you push out the air in the system it creates a vacuum causing the pedal to stick until you pull up the pedal and pump it.