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ECUflash Ceddy big maps

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gsxeclipse97

15+ Year Contributor
1,255
2
Nov 7, 2004
Cedar Park, Texas
Had anyone noticed that the big timing maps run less timing in some places and more in others than the stock maps? For example, at 160 load at 5500 rpms it's 19 degrees and on the big maps at the same place on the big maps its 16 degrees. Further down the column it runs 21 degrees and the stock maps run 19.


So upon driving around today I feel that the car is faster in the original timing maps but then again that could be cause it's 100 degrees outside
 
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I thinks you will also notice the fuel is pig rich on the stock maps
here is mine no knock 272 cams e316g meth and 94 oct.

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never seen a dyno yet!

trying to get speed density setup
 
What else do you have done to your car? Your profile isn't filled out. I leaned out the fuel on the big map but it still seems slower than the stock tune I have at the moment
 
stock 7 bolt

evo 3 intake, FP exhaust mani, fic 650 3" exhaust e3 16G HKS 272 cams, BBK TB, PR FMIC, and meth. running 25 PSI

This setup pulls hard!

I thought i read you had a 16g.....why don't you?? they are cheap!
 
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I'm waiting till my 14b dies and get the most out of it. They say you can make 300whp with it but according to the evo scan dyno it makes 230 whp at the moment.
 
I would think that you need to get a tune and put your custom settings after installing you big maps? When I got my "big maps" from Ceddy, he asked me to give him a list of everything that was done to the car including all of the bolt on parts and internals. He said that he was going to give me a base map the will at least make the car run and that I will need to have it tuned for real afterwards. Aren't all of you guys getting the cars tuned after installing your big maps? Just asking.
 
Yea I'm just not using the big maps at the moment I did a tune on the small maps which was a bit easier. And had a back up map that was a little richer for incase. The big map is by itself so it needs to be spot on.
 
Wouldn't the stock evo maps make my car slower than it is now. They run less timing than the factory ones. Not to mention the fuel maps are crazy rich
 
So long over due, I have now switched over to big maps. I have a couple of questions for everyone. Now I have upgraded to a tdo5 20g turbo for starters. I still using the evo9 injectors. I have them scaled in ecu flash as 518cc because that's as close to 513cc I can get to which was in Merlin's guide. I saw a thread where ceddy had them scaled to 575. So first question is are they scaled correctly. Cause my gas mileage has been pretty awful. I changed the latency to match what I saw in the guide. Second I seem to be getting 2 counts of knock in the lower rpms range just above idle. That could be due to I change the timing to 14* at 50% load. I will investigate that more though.
 
So long over due, I have now switched over to big maps. I have a couple of questions for everyone. Now I have upgraded to a tdo5 20g turbo for starters. I still using the evo9 injectors. I have them scaled in ecu flash as 518cc because that's as close to 513cc I can get to which was in Merlin's guide. I saw a thread where ceddy had them scaled to 575. So first question is are they scaled correctly. Cause my gas mileage has been pretty awful. I changed the latency to match what I saw in the guide. Second I seem to be getting 2 counts of knock in the lower rpms range just above idle. That could be due to I change the timing to 14* at 50% load. I will investigate that more though.

Short Version: Are they scaled right? If you used the numbers in Merlin's guide, probably not. Our ECU uses a different scaling/multiplier and our numbers should be similar to the injector's actual flow. Use your Wideband at WOT to get your scaling number, and LTFT low/mid to get the correct latencies for your injectors. Ceddy made a guide for it on his site here. It's roughly the same as Section 5.05 (page 69) in Merlin's tuning guide.

Long Version: Merlin's guide is made based off the Evo ECU numbers, so no it won't be quite right. Why you ask? Long ago when the Evo ROM was first being disassembled a mistake was made that gave the injector scaling an incorrect multiplier, that is why their numbers are always significantly smaller than the actual flow rates. It stayed this way for years and no one really noticed or cared, they just put in a number that worked.

Fast forward to when Ceddy disassembled the DSM ROM, the mistake is known at this point and the Evo people are so used to it that they don't want to change it. Meanwhile Ceddy figured he'd rather have it right than go with the Evo scalings. Thus, any scaling you find on an Evo board or in Merlin's guide will not be 100% correct for our ECU, but they will be somewhat close. That said, I do believe he has the option in the ROM definition to switch it to use the Evo scalings if you so prefer, but I've never used it personally, so I can't say much about it.

Your scaling of 518 instead of 575 is about a 10% difference; that is within the ECU's range to correct at cruise/idle assuming your latencies are good. It is however pushing the limit of how much it can adjust assuming your narrow-band is cycling. This means that your fuel trim adjustment will push towards leaning the mixture as your injectors are putting in more fuel than the ECU expects given the size, and will mess up your AFRs in the low/mid (under 1600Hz) and may be part of your low-end knock.

Obviously with a larger turbo your on-boost fuel consumption is going to increase as air-flow increases, while your idle/cruise will remain roughly the same. That said it is common to have a mild average MPG loss with a larger turbo unless you drive like a granny and stay out of boost. And what fun is that?

Lock-Step:

1) Pull timing a couple degrees where you have low end knock (make it gone)
2) Use the guides to get your injectors scaled correctly (LTFT low/mid within 5%)
3) With injectors properly scaled reintroduce the advance timing and see if your knock comes back.
4) If knock is gone, great, if not pull timing to get rid of it.

Hope some of that helps you out. Have fun tuning :)
 
So so I rescaled the maf yesterday bak to the stock setting because the evo9 maf died on me. And the car wouldn't rev over 4k rpm. Which I thought was odd it's the problem I had back when I switched to the 20g to begin with. So I flashed back the evo maf settings and problem solved. Not sure why, I figured the stock maf setting would help with the gas mileage. But I guess not.

What does the top right side of the the timing map affect? All of that stuff on mine says -10
 
So so I rescaled the maf yesterday bak to the stock setting because the evo9 maf died on me. And the car wouldn't rev over 4k rpm. Which I thought was odd it's the problem I had back when I switched to the 20g to begin with. So I flashed back the evo maf settings and problem solved. Not sure why, I figured the stock maf setting would help with the gas mileage. But I guess not.

What does the top right side of the the timing map affect? All of that stuff on mine says -10

I take from this that you're running a 2g MAF with Evo9 settings? That's interesting...

In any case, the top-right of the timing map is for situations in which you are producing high load at very low rpm. This can occur when you're cruising and happen to go up a hill without shifting, or if you think it's cool to shift into 5th at 20mph and try to accelerate. Honestly though, anything above 90 load is crossing into boost and I don't know about you, but I don't know anyone pushing 10+psi at 1000rpm to make that kind of load... It's pretty unlikely any of that map area ever really gets used, but it can be handy real-estate if you rescale the map, or decide to run a 9b ROFL. Here's a chart Ceddy made back in the day that gives a general idea of what the map areas are for:

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The dots represent the path the ECU would follow on a WOT run on a lightly modified 2g. Obviously the chart is pretty generalized, but it's still a good representation none-the-less. Have fun tuning :)
 
That helps out tremendously!! Thank you. Yes I'm using the 2g maf with evo 9 settings. The car won't Go over 4k rpm with the stock maf setting otherwise. Well I guess I will rescale the timing map tonight. From 180 to 340 and up its -10 all the way across which is why the stock ting map felt more alive I think it only sees -2 at the most.
 
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