ECMlink Car won't start on SD

[Type1DSMr]

Dude I looked at your log and you don't have a manifold pressure source identified in pin assignments, you have it selected at the bottom telling the ecu where to look but you need to also select it up top. Where is say MDP------factory/ click on factory and in the drop down menu select your omni 4 bar.

Agree with this and check the disable maf comp with sd in the maf tab. Also, you have selected your wideband to sim narrowband but you didn't select or check it to the saved pin assignments.

 

[miliman13]

^ as per gofer's instructions in a separate thread.

 

[kmetiuk]

@smills1840 what do you have exactly for aftermarket sensors? What wideband? do you have an intake air temp sensor hooked up?

I will assume you have all 3 required for proper SD (IAT, WB, and MAP) for the following comments.

I looked at BOTH your logs and there is some MAJOR items you need to setup before you even try and start the car. Your WB isn't cycling b/c it's not setup in the ECU tabs. How can you read it in the log or have it cycle if you don't tell Link where it is, what kind it is, and at what voltage point it cycles at?

As it sits right now, you do not have anything setup in the ECU INPUTS tabs properly.

Do the following and then do another log and post it so we can make sure that issue is fully resolved before we move forward:
- Goto the ECU INPUT TAB
- In the top table (PC side) in the row for for MDP set it to omnin4bar, set the Front O2 to whatever WB you have (AEM, LC-1, or whatever you have), set the Intake Temp row to whatever IAT sensor you have.
- HIT SAVE PIN ASSIGNMENTS (just below the first table)
- In the bottom table (ECU side) set the MAP to MDP, set map sensor type to omni 4 bar, set wideband (WB) to Front O2
- In the "table" just to the right of the ECU side, there is a list of "lockouts" that you need to set in order to prevent DTC codes. Since you are using an aftermarket MAP in place of the MDP you need to lockout that code b/c the omini4bar will send voltages that the "regular" ECU will see as a problem....not an issue for LINK, but it will trigger a DTC if you don't lockout the code. This does nothing as far as prevent DTC's...but DTC's are helpful if you are getting large amounts of knock or your overheating. If your DTC check engine light is triggered (ie check engine light is on) due to your omni4bar triggering it early and you are knocking later on you wont be able to tell b/c the omni triggered it much earlier. So lockout the MDP, the rear 02 if its disconnected (i would do this anyways as it's only used to make sure your catalytic converter is at the right temperature and is catalyzing properly), and lockout the intake air temp only if you have an aftermarket IAT sensor wired in.
- hit save to ECU in the far bottom right of the screen.
- now you must setup the NB02 simulation to get the WB to cycle properly. GOTO THE NBO2 SIMULATION TAB. It should no longer be greyed out b/c you have setup the WB pin assignment properly in the ECU input tab. If it is still greyed out GO BACK to the top of the list and start over and follow the steps precisely.
- Goto the ECU INPUT TAB and press the button "captured" values....select the WB sensor you have (LC-1, AEM, etc), omni4bar, and the IAT sensor you have.


FINALLY, do another log and post it here.

Don't even attempt SD yet.....you need to setup a ton more shiiit to run that and as it sits right now you aren't even going to be able to run MAF properly until you setup your basic aftermarket sensor settings.

Good luck man. These are easy fixes so far, and the deadtime and global fuel setting are easy to once we move past the initial setup.

One more important thing you need to do ASAP. Update the firmware on your ECU. Goto ECMTuning and follow the steps to do it. There is a feature in a new firmware that will allow you to change the deadtimes in the config tables instead of the DA so that you can change the deadtimes while it is running which will make it a gajillion times easier to find a good deadtime at idle.

Your firmware is super old and missing a lot of features that will make this ALOT smoother.


YOU MUST UPDATE FIRMWARE.

I just rechecked your logs and b/c your firmware and the PC app are so old you do not even have a global fuel scalar value.

You are currently using the coolant temp fuel adjust table in the DA to account for your larger injectors. This is a sketchy as fcuk way to do this. Plz plz just update your firmware and software before going further. It will make this a million times easier.

I had originally set the MAP pin location to Mdp. When that didn't work, I set it to baro as a troubleshooting step based on other threads. The didn't work either, obviously.

I'll set it to MDP.

My question is, if the car idles relatively well on maf, shouldn't it start/idle relatively well using the exact same injector settings on SD?

No it will not run on SD b/c it is running on good on MAF.

SD uses VE tables and pressure and temp to tell the ECU how much air is entering the engine. MAF only uses airflow and temp to tell how much air is entering the system. MAF does not use VE tables which is the big difference between the 2 in regards to your question.

Basically if your injectors are way out of whack, MAF will allow larger adjustments in the fuel trim's that the ECU uses to get the AFR's near 14.7. When using SD you are telling the ECU that XX amount of air is entering, but the ECU sees the AFR is way out and starts adjusting fuel trims. The ECU will only adjust to +/-18% (or something near there...i honestly don;t remeber the max). Once it hits that max it cannot add or remove anymore fuel. B/c your MAF is reading a much more precise value of air than your uncalibrated VE table, MAF is much closer to the real value than your VE table is.

Run on MAF for now until you get your injector settings properly setup. We can do this by watching your fuel trims, your WB and your airflow per rev.

The main thing you need to know is that your engine can only injest a certain amount of air flow per rev at idle. It is a known value and is the same for all reasonably healthy 2.0L 4G63 engines.

Air flow per rev for 2.0L engine running at 750 rpm's at idle can (and is) found mathmatically. Your engine can only ingest 0.5L of air per rev and at 750 RPM your intake pressure will be in the range of -14 to -20 inhg (depending on how healthy your engine is and how many boost leaks you have if any). So from the pressure and the fact we know that 0.5L of air can be ingested we can find the density of the air and therefore we know EXACTLY how much air SHOULD be entering the engine.

THE VALUE IS 0.25gm/rev. Any value other than that will tell us if your injector settings are to high or to low.


In your log you airflow/rev is 0.37-0.39 in both logs....which tells me that your deadtimes or your global are off. In this case its most likely your deadtime.

 

[smills1840]

Just to clarify a couple things:

I'm using a stock style of sensor in the o2 housing. The wideband sensor is in the downpipe. I do not want to use a wideband sensor to simulate narrowband.

I'm using an lc-2 wideband.

Do I need to be connected to the ECU to edit the PC-Side of the pin assignments? I'm currently not with the car. I can't seem to edit anything in the PC-Side table.

I'll attempt to update the firmware later today, although I've already gone through that process. Maybe I flashed the wrong firmware back to the car when I was done? Not sure.

Also, not trying to argue with you guys since I know very little about Link, but I can go start the car right now, using the exact settings that are in the SD log I posted and the car will start and idle just fine. MAF unplugged and everything.

I really appreciate all the help guys! This is exactly why I bought link.

 

[kmetiuk]

Just to clarify a couple things:

I'm using a stock style of sensor in the o2 housing. The wideband sensor is in the downpipe. I do not want to use a wideband sensor to simulate narrowband.

I'm using an lc-2 wideband.

Do I need to be connected to the ECU to edit the PC-Side of the pin assignments? I'm currently not with the car. I can't seem to edit anything in the PC-Side table.

I'll attempt to update the firmware later today, although I've already gone through that process. Maybe I flashed the wrong firmware back to the car when I was done? Not sure.

Also, not trying to argue with you guys since I know very little about Link, but I can go start the car right now, using the exact settings that are in the SD log I posted and the car will start and idle just fine. MAF unplugged and everything.

I really appreciate all the help guys! This is exactly why I bought link.

Are you running LINK v2 or v3? I've only run V3 so im not sure what v2 looks like.

What I can tell you is that there are some features missing from your logs/config/direct access tables. The global fuel scalar, injector deadtimes, and some others.

Are you using a stock sensor or a "stock style" sensor in the o2 housing? If its an actual narrowband sensor from a dsm then ignore the NBO2 stuff i posted above.

Since you are using a LC-2 in the downpipe I assume it is connected to the rear 02 sensor wiring plug. In that case what I posted above for setting it up in the front O2 change to rear 02 for pin assignments.

It may start and run fine on the settings, but its possible that 2 wrongs are making a right....that doesn't mean its safe or smart to run it like that. You need to actually set it up properly and I can tell you right now that there are some major issues that need to be addressed.

And yes, you need to be actually connected to the ECU to setup the pin assignments

 

[smills1840]

Roger that. I'll set the pin assignments later. Also, I'm using a stock 02 sensor. I'm familiar with the difference between narrowband and wideband. I attempted to simulate narrowband with my wideband sensor while running my black box ECU, and it left a sour taste in my mouth. I'm sure Link does it much better, but I'd still prefer to run a stock o2 sensor in the o2 sensor housing. I'll report back!

 

[kmetiuk]

Roger that. I'll set the pin assignments later. Also, I'm using a stock 02 sensor. I'm familiar with the difference between narrowband and wideband. I attempted to simulate narrowband with my wideband sensor while running my black box ECU, and it left a sour taste in my mouth. I'm sure Link does it much better, but I'd still prefer to run a stock o2 sensor in the o2 sensor housing. I'll report back!

For narrowband it'll be fine either way....personally preference....and honestly makes no difference. I personaly run the LC-1 with NBO2 simulation and I like it. Does whats is supposed too....although I have been running in locked open loop to see what that's like and it runs fine too.

I haven't been able to find much on your deadtimes yet, but im still looking. As I have said, it is a MUST to have these set to there proper values in the voltage scaling table to get the idle, startup, and cruise to be buttery smooth.

So I found this so far for injector scaling....there aren't any 950's posted, but there are 1000's, 880, and other PTE's.

I'm wondering/thinking that maaaaaaaaaaybe we can use excel and use the injector deadtimes to interpolate what they "might" be. It's not gonna be exact but it might be very close.

http://www.socalevo.net/archive/index.php/t-178400.html


Also just found this post too so that will help with global scaling.

Busted. PTE measures the flow rate at 36psi. So a set of 550cc injectors, on a 2g that runs a base of 43.5 will net 580cc.

 

[gofer]

You've got to update your most recent version of ECMLink, then do a firmware update. I already outlined the how-to with links on the first page..

If you can't log capture VE or some of the other values then odds are you don't have the latest version of ECMLink installed on your laptop or the latest firmware on the chip.

First download the most recent version from the ECMLink Downloads page. After doing this you'll want to update your firmware as well but to do so its a bit trickier than just clicking a link.

1. You'll want to submit a firmware request and to do it requires you to connect to your cars ECU. Click ECU from the drop down and click Create Firmware Request... paying close attention to where its saved on your computer.
2. Request Firmware Upgrade... and select Choose File and find your firmware file you just saved.
3. Download the new firmware to your desktop or somewhere you can easily access it and then open up ECMLink.
4. Click the ECU drop down menu and select Upgrade Firmware and then pick the file you just downloaded while your connected to the ECU in the car.

SD is actually pretty forgiving with what you can get away with even with the actual tune being completely jacked, settings and all... Technically you don't even need a IAT as the ECU just locks at 77*, just a MAP sensor will get you going.

From what you're saying, that you've read everything and still don't get it, you need to go back and read everything again until you do understand it or watch the demo videos live as you're in your car actually trying to get it setup for ECMLink. There's also a very helpful tool that's built into the ECMLink software, it looks like a question mark in the bottom right corner of the program. Click on it and it will tell you what you need to do in every tab, table, setting.

How-to Videos --->http://www.ecmtuning.com/demos.php

Update your software, update your firmware, watch every video in the link above, and use the "?" tool that Tom and Dave built into the software that explains literally everything.

 

[smills1840]

I understand how SD works, and how it differs from MAF. Also, I've gone through the update process, and received a file to download. As far as I know, that is the file that we're looking at.

Maybe I'm missing something, but this official literature from EcmLink says nothing about the PC side pin assignments.

http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/sdsetup

The very first thing I did when attempting to switch over to SD was enter approximate injector settings, then went to ECU Inputs and changed the Manifold pressure (MAP) drop down menu to MDP. Below that, I selected Omni 4 bar. I also went to the MAFcomp tab and chose Speed Density in the Base Maf Type drop down menu. As far as I can tell, those are the only instructions provided on the official ECMLink SD Setup page (excluding the IAT sensor, which I will be installing/configuring soon).

So I'll try the settings you guys have recommended and report back with logs.

 

[smills1840]

Alright, I'm at the car now. As soon as I plugged my laptop in, I checked both my firmware version and my ECMlink software version.

Firmware version: 3.28.119
Software version: 3.29.64

I'm going to attempt the other suggestions now.

 

[smills1840]

Here is a (very long, sorry) updated log.

Several things I noticed:

1. Front O2 still isn't cycling, and not a single one of the fuel trims moved for over 17 minutes. They're all at 0%.

2. The idle slowly rises. It starts off at 650ish, and by the end of the log it's almost at 1,200.

But I assigned the PC side pins, and the car seems to start and idle well.

 

[kmetiuk]

Its strange your stock WB isnt cycling....and also fuel trims arent moving. Im away from my computer for a couple hrs so ill check your logs when i get home.

 

[smills1840]

I got the stock o2 sensor to cycle. I had narrowband sim enabled, but didn't realize that I had to assign a wideband pin before I could disable narrowband sim. Dave on the ECMlink forums helped me out there.

But even though the front o2 voltage moves now, it doesn't fluctuate like it's supposed to and the car stays in open loop. Fuel trims still aren't moving either.

Here is an updated log.

 

[gofer]

Maybe I'm missing something, but this official literature from EcmLink says nothing about the PC side pin assignments.

Don't forget to use the "?" (small yellow circle with a question mark inside of it) built into the ECMLink software, the specifics of each tab (as I mentioned before) are in there explaining the PC side/ECU side, etc. and you don't need internet access to view it.

 

[kmetiuk]

Alright home from the movie. PS Dr. Strange is awesome.

First look at your log and your pin assignments are STILL not setup properly. I can see the Omni4bar in the log now, but there is still no WB due to the pin assignment still not being setup. We need the wideband in order to see the WBFactor to help dial in the injectors.

You are in open loop b/c your open loop thresholds are all set to zero. Reset to stock. Plz see pics.

Also your direct access stuff is all fcuked up. Reset all of it back to stock. Plz see pics.

YOU NEED TO SETUP GLOBAL FUEL AND DEADTIME PROPERLY BEFORE MESSING WITH ANYTHING IN THE DIRECT ACCESS.

Trust me and follow what i say and your car will idle and cruise so smooth instantly....you'll still need to tune your VE table, but it's gonna work the way its supposed to. What you are doing right now is not correct and will yield horrible results when on the road.



In your fuel tab you need to reset all your individual deadtimes to zero.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Checking your fuel tab your global fuel and global deadtime seems good too...leave them for now,

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I took all the deadtimes for PTE Injectors from the link i posted to evolutionm.net and plotted them:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I then did a little interpolation of the data and found some deadtimes that will be close. Now they are not correct and I recommend emailing PTE and getting the real values from them, but this will get you by for now. These values are really only important during crusing and idle so as soon as your WOT and full boost they contribute almost nothinng to the total injector pulse width.

Use the following values for now:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[smills1840]

You're awesome guys, I really appreciate the help!

Also, on the individual deadlines, I noticed one of my injectors has a different serial number than the others. I google d the serial numbers and the odd injector comes up as a 750cc injector, while the others come up as 1000cc injectors. However, they all have "950" engraved on them.

I'm going to call PTE on Monday and figure out what's going on, and also get some dead times.

Does anyone know where I can get a completely stock 2g file? The one on the ECMlink site won't flash to my ecu, says it's not compatible.

 

[kmetiuk]

Also, on the individual deadlines, I noticed one of my injectors has a different serial number than the others. I google d the serial numbers and the odd injector comes up as a 750cc injector, while the others come up as 1000cc injectors. However, they all have "950" engraved on them.

I'm going to call PTE on Monday and figure out what's going on, and also get some dead times.

Ya that is weird. Each injector should have an unique serial number on each one. Can you post a pic of each serial number/injector?

If you do have 3x1000cc and 1x750cc that would be a huge problem....as in no point in going further until all injectors are the same.

Where did you get the injectors from?

Post some pics of them plz.

Does anyone know where I can get a completely stock 2g file? The one on the ECMlink site won't flash to my ecu, says it's not compatible.

What do you mean it wont flash? You posted what firmware you had and its up to date enough. I turned out the PC version of the laptop app on my end was not updated with the last updater patch.

If you are trying to reset to a stock 2G settings, just hit the "reset all" button in the bottom left of each tab and then hit save all to ECU.

In the DA tables there is a little button in the top tool bar that you can hit to "toggle stock values" do that and then hit save to ecu.

 

[smills1840]

17113744 8305
17113744 E029
17113742 0045
17113744 E029

Those are the numbers printed on the injectors.

Also, I believe the reset all button only resets the settings that were there when the tune is first loaded up. It doesn't actually reset them to OEM values.

 

[kmetiuk]

Ya dude, I hate to say it but I think your right about the one injector. Call PTE for sure....but you should swap that out that injector before proceeding further (depending on what PTE says of course.)

 

[smills1840]

I've been running them for probably 2 years now, and I'm just now noticing the different numbers. They all have "950" engraved on them though, so I'm going to call PTE and see what they say.

 

[kmetiuk]

I've been running them for probably 2 years now, and I'm just now noticing the different numbers. They all have "950" engraved on them though, so I'm going to call PTE and see what they say.

Good call. They'll know for sure. Maybe it's nothing and they really are 950's.

If you can get your car running on them and post a log with the WB you should be able to tell I would think. 3x950 and 1x750 would likely show up on the WB or the fuel trims.

Also to reset the DA stuff back to stock see the following pic:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Reset all of the bold items back to stock values.

As an aside make it a habit of saving the DA and config settings each time you make a change. I have hundreds and hundred of back of files just in case i fcuk something up or find a chnage was worse than before.

 

[smills1840]

Well, PTE confirmed that I have an oddball injector. They didn't seem to have any comment on why all of them are engraved "950", but they did confirm that one of them is actually a 750cc. So I guess I'll be looking for a new set of injectors and report back.