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2G Car still won’t start

98gstJames

Proven Member
123
27
May 25, 2022
Virginia
Alright so I’ve been trying to get my car to start and I’ve done a lot, what does it sound like my car is missing now? I’ll add a video, I’m just lost

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Dericsh

Supporting Member
1,453
688
Nov 25, 2002
Pearl River, Louisiana

Chri_Evocoupe

Proven Member
39
14
Jun 19, 2022
FAJARDO, Puerto_Rico
Before you buy and avoid the same mistake i did, if you going to open the engine do it first and inspect all engine before buy any part

The last time i buy oem bore size piston, oem head gasket and when i start working on it the block have deep scratches and we need to bore it and now i have a spare of new stock size piston useless for me
 

98gstJames

Proven Member
123
27
May 25, 2022
Virginia
Before you buy and avoid the same mistake i did, if you going to open the engine do it first and inspect all engine before buy any part

The last time i buy oem bore size piston, oem head gasket and when i start working on it the block have deep scratches and we need to bore it and now i have a spare of new stock size piston useless for me
Well good news is I had already planned on pulling the head off first before I ordered it just to make sure there wasn’t anything else down inside, also I’ve done main bearing and piston rod bearing and pushed the pistons up to the top while looking inside the cylinder walls, I couldn’t see any major scratches or anything like that but obviously it won’t be a good a look as when the head is off, but I’ll see what’s underneath.

Sorry I missed that. Ok, if it’s never had engine work before then standard hg bore size is 85.5.

I might not have mentioned it, but thank you for clearing up the sizing and is it also .056?
 

Dericsh

Supporting Member
1,453
688
Nov 25, 2002
Pearl River, Louisiana
I might not have mentioned it, but thank you for clearing up the sizing and is it also .056?
According to cometic via stm’s website the 3 layer .056” is oem thickness. I realize I probably got that info from the same place you did. I don’t have an oem one on hand to measure. I do have a felpro composite if you would like any specs from that.

Are you planning on having the head resurfaced? It’s recommended for MLS gaskets.
 

98gstJames

Proven Member
123
27
May 25, 2022
Virginia
According to cometic via stm’s website the 3 layer .056” is oem thickness. I realize I probably got that info from the same place you did. I don’t have an oem one on hand to measure. I do have a felpro composite if you would like any specs from that.

Are you planning on having the head resurfaced? It’s recommended for MLS gaskets.
I wasn’t going to take to a machine shop to get it resurfaced I was just going to smooth it out myself, so then I assumed I’d just use the stock specs for a head gasket
 

Dericsh

Supporting Member
1,453
688
Nov 25, 2002
Pearl River, Louisiana
I wasn’t going to take to a machine shop to get it resurfaced I was just going to smooth it out myself, so then I assumed I’d just use the stock specs for a head gasket
Not doubting your skills, just thinking that since you had/think you had a failure of the HG already, that you really need a perfect block and head to use an mls gasket. You may want to consider composite if you’re not going to use a machine shop. Just a suggestion.
 

steve

DSM Wiseman
14,861
1,719
Feb 3, 2002
Boulder, Colorado
Check the flatness on both surfaces with a straightedge and feeler gauge. I don’t have the specs. Hopefully someone can post that. I wouldn’t try to resurface the head at home tbh.

According to the various FSM the specs are:
Flatness of gasket surface Less than 0.05mm (.0020in ) Limit 0.2mm (.008in)

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You would have to check with the gasket people for the surface RA (Finish) for their gaskets but with MLS gaskets they pretty much look like they are satin polished finish when they are the right RA.


Last but not least, the head and block should not be flattened on a belt sander but machined with a stone or flycutter on a mill and only if they are not flat. Once removed, material can't be put back. This isn't something most home shops can do right.
 

98gstJames

Proven Member
123
27
May 25, 2022
Virginia
Check the flatness on both surfaces with a straightedge and feeler gauge. I don’t have the specs. Hopefully someone can post that. I wouldn’t try to resurface the head at home tbh.
I can’t afford to have it machined at a shop but I have a buddy that has built his car and gone through the motor many times and has resurfaced before so I’m going to have him do it.

Definitely a blown head gasket, honestly worse than I thought, kinda surprised at the psi numbers I had

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AWD-Tony

Supporting Member
6,800
3,686
Sep 11, 2017
Cincinnati, Ohio
I can’t afford to have it machined at a shop but I have a buddy that has built his car and gone through the motor many times and has resurfaced before so I’m going to have him do it.
If you’re going that route, I highly recommend sticking with oem composite hg. You’ll have a higher likelihood not to seal properly with mls hg. Good find. A leak down would have shown bubbles in the coolant system.
 

98gstJames

Proven Member
123
27
May 25, 2022
Virginia
Put a L on my block earlier and felt under each section with my feeler gauge and I couldn’t put the feeler garage underneath any part, I was measuring using .004” on my gauge. I’ll check the head to make sure it’s good as well but I was happy to see my block is good at least.

I ordered a Fel-Pro MLS gasket and it’ll be here maybe tomorrow or Thursday, I’m gonna try and get my block prepped hopefully tomorrow or Wednesday and I’m gonna have my head done hopefully soon after but I’m not doing the head myself, so I’m not sure on that rn, but I’ll be at the beach next week so no work on the dsm until I’m back, maybe things will work out to where I can get it all done by Friday before I leave and I can have it back together to see how it runs then. Fingers crossed but if I have to wait then I will.

Also funny story, the dude that did all the stuff to the car(who the guy I bought the car from bought it from) has a yt channel and he made a video about the car. First right off the bat he called the car a 1989 eclipse then he started talking about the car, he said it has a stage 4 clutch, which it doesn’t, he said he “rebuilt the motor”, “put new gaskets and seals” which there is absolutely no way maybe a new vc gasket but that’s it, he said it has “LRP” head studs which they’re ARP head studs so that kinda confirmed that he didn’t actually do the work that was done and it was his dad and I guess he did the work that was messed up. In the video the car had a maf sensor on it and some sort of other manual boost controller on it, so I’m assuming he just went in and pulled stuff apart I really don’t know, I tried messaging him but of course he didn’t reply.
 

98gstJames

Proven Member
123
27
May 25, 2022
Virginia
Still waiting on money to work out for me to get everything all done but I’ve gotten the block almost prepped, I need to flush the cooling system and finish polishing it but it looks a lot better than it did, I’ll post the pics. I’m hoping to have everything I need within the next two weeks but we will see. I hate taking so long in between doing stuff but sometimes it’s gotta wait, sadly.

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98gstJames

Proven Member
123
27
May 25, 2022
Virginia
Alright update for you guys, got the head back from the machine shop today and I was surprisingly informed that the head had been welded at one point, but I asked and the machinist said it was good and will be fine, he did a pressure test before he did anything and that went perfect.

I’m hoping to put the head back together tomorrow and get the head back on the car tomorrow as well, if everything goes to plan. Only bad news really is the CPS broke so I had to order a new one which it wasn’t even plugged In to begin with bc god knows where the plug is, I still haven’t found it yet. Not sure it got cut up or chewed up by the belt or something because the plug from the sensor is damaged so I’m wondering if the other end broke or he cut it, either way I need to get it fixed asap.

Other than that the DSM will hopefully be alive by Sunday. Fingers crossed.

Alright so quick question, I have t tried anything g yet but is it possible to change the cps with the cams and everything together or does that needed to be changed with the cams out?
 

steve

DSM Wiseman
14,861
1,719
Feb 3, 2002
Boulder, Colorado
Which sensor?

The cam angle sensor should be on the back side of the intake manifole and the actual electrical part with the hall sensor should come out without touching the part that connects to the cam.

The crank angle sensor is on the front of the engine by the crankshaft and you have to play a few games to change it while the timing belt is on based on what I've read here.

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steve

DSM Wiseman
14,861
1,719
Feb 3, 2002
Boulder, Colorado
I believe only 95 and 96 engines have the cam angle sensor on the front side under the intake cam sprocket. Is this not the car in your profile?

It had been awhile but looking back I notice the picture in your first post has one of the early intake cam sprockets.

Is it possible this is another bastard frankenclipse?
What ECU is in it?
 

98gstJames

Proven Member
123
27
May 25, 2022
Virginia
I believe only 95 and 96 engines have the cam angle sensor on the front side under the intake cam sprocket. Is this not the car in your profile?

It had been awhile but looking back I notice the picture in your first post has one of the early intake cam sprockets.

Is it possible this is another bastard frankenclipse?
What ECU is in it?
I’m going to assume then that it has a 95-96 head on it then bc yes this is the same car from my profile the 98, but the ecu is a md346675 and I remember reading that they changed the ecu thru the years but I can’t remember which ones, but if it is a 96 Intake cam then would that explain why I can’t find the other end for it? Maybe I just haven’t looked enough bc I’ve somewhat looked in the area where it should be but haven’t done a full trace yet, or should all of them have that? I haven’t had it plugged in the car yet but I would like to get that on bc I’m sure that’d help with my car running good, but I answered my own question when I was putting the head back together, I took the sensor off and then put the cam on and the sensor fits but there’s no way to get the bolts in for it so the cam has to come out which isn’t a big deal. Hopefully maybe tomorrow, we’ll today technically I’ll have it all put back together.
 

steve

DSM Wiseman
14,861
1,719
Feb 3, 2002
Boulder, Colorado

98gstJames

Proven Member
123
27
May 25, 2022
Virginia
So I got the crank angle sensor and the cam angle sensor confused, that’s the cam angle sensor that is next to the intake beside that filter which I was wondering what should actually go there because I knew the filter wasn’t right but the intake has some rerouted tubing on the part where that tube should go into, it’s like routed back into itself, I’ll add a pic of what I’m talking about.

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steve

DSM Wiseman
14,861
1,719
Feb 3, 2002
Boulder, Colorado
If you're talking about this hose? It's for the PCV which it look like you have a white cap on.

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I was talking about the intake pipe your MAF attaches to. There is a port on the side for routing to the rocker cover.

I circled the cam angle sensor in yellow. I assume it's plugged in. I think we decided it was a 1G CAS which provided both Crank and Cam signals if wired to do so. If so nothing goes on the front side of the intake cam. You should still check down my the crank to see if you have a 2G CKP sensor.

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So this is not used.
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98gstJames

Proven Member
123
27
May 25, 2022
Virginia
Alright so I need to be running that hose where I have the white cap to that PCV on the intake. In the picture there you can see where that hose goes into from the PCV, what should be going into there?

Also I was wondering about the plug on the side of the MAF tubing but that makes a lot more sense that it goes there, best bet I’m getting that fixed asap.

I’m not sure if the CAS is wired correctly but I never had the one under the intake cam plugged in so I’m assuming that it does work properly, so I’m just going to leave it out.

I’m having trouble remembering, as many times as I’ve had to do it recently, I shouldn’t LOL but when doing timing do I want it on the exhaust stroke or the compression stroke when putting it to TDC?
 
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98gstJames

Proven Member
123
27
May 25, 2022
Virginia
So I got the car pretty much all back together last night, I somehow misplaced two lower insulators to my injectors so I’m kinda stuck on that until I either find them or get new ones, but other than that I just need to put the timing belt on, hook electrical up, throw oil and a filter on there and flush the cooling system out and the dsm should be alive.
 

steve

DSM Wiseman
14,861
1,719
Feb 3, 2002
Boulder, Colorado
I’m having trouble remembering, as many times as I’ve had to do it recently, I shouldn’t LOL but when doing timing do I want it on the exhaust stroke or the compression stroke when putting it to TDC?

It's the cams that make it one or the other. By making sure that the dowel pins are at 12 o'Clock when the crankshaft is at TDC you are putting cylinder 1 at TDC compression stroke. By extension that also make cylinder 4 at TDC exhaust stroke.
 

98gstJames

Proven Member
123
27
May 25, 2022
Virginia
It's the cams that make it one or the other. By making sure that the dowel pins are at 12 o'Clock when the crankshaft is at TDC you are putting cylinder 1 at TDC compression stroke. By extension that also make cylinder 4 at TDC exhaust stroke.
See the more I thought about it I somewhat answered my own question LOL because I said to myself well pistons 1 and 4 go down when 2 and 3 go up and vice versa so I just gotta make sure 1 and 4 are at tdc and that crank mark lines up and that the cams are in time, luckily I kept the cams in time when I took them out so they were basically in time when I put them back in, just gotta turn then very slightly to get both in time. Also the ring that is on the back of the intake cam pulley, I was to understand that’s how the cam sensor reads, so I didn’t know that before and I was going to put on these adjustable cams until I saw I didn’t have the holes for the four screws for that plate, since I don’t need that individual sensor, I don’t need that plate and I can use the adjustable cams that I have? I was going to put them on until I saw that there was nowhere to put that plate, this was ofc before I knew about the sensor

This is how the head looked after I put the cams back in and cleaned it up, and the other pics are when I was about to put the head on.

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Anyone have any good way to flush out the entire cooling system?
 
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