car starts and dies turbo ecu help in gs spyder

[1Gina2G]

okay so I have a 1999 spyder gs with the 4g64 N/t conversion. there are 2 good write ups Ive read over several times so that I can proceed for the turbo swap.

http://4g64.150m.com/turbo.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/turbo-ecu-in-a-spyder-gs.424084/

-car starts but dies will actually run for about 5-15 seconds but sounds like misfiring. %100 new igniton system with NGK cold plugs properly gapped, NGK plugs and new OEM coil pack.

from what I understand, you can turbo this 4g64 single cam engine as is assuming you have no other issues with the engine. you can leave the sohc head in place along with the n/t throttle body and ECU, assuming you have a way to tune or adjust the fuel and generic knock sensor control, overall I thought it would be easier to work with what I had which is a 95 EPROM ECU which worked fully from my last car about a year or so ago, before I parted out. kept the ECU in the house in a dresser the whole time. inspected it before and after this no start issue and found no leaking compacitors, disconnected pins or arcing marks.


-followed the rewire guide %100 and actually trying to install the turbo TB and ecu before the engine gets turbod to work out any electrical issues before actual swap, which is whats happening. So far I added in a 190 fuel pump correctly bypassed the relay and am getting fuel , voltage pulses from the injector plugs, but car acts like it is misfiring or out of time.

-stock 275 injectors in, and bigger fuel pump with factory turbo fuel regulator installed for a while with the n/t ecu installed with no problems, swapped back to n/t ecu in after turbo ecu install and engine starts, WITH the TURBO throttle body and sensors in place. TB is new and IAC fully checks out. TPS is questionable.


debating between the TPS and turbo ECU. sending it out tomorrow. any possible suggestions on what I can check? the guide says I should be fine but I don't know what to check otherwise.

 

[DogWhistle]

So what is the configuration that doesn't keep running? The 4G64 ecu with stock injectors and a 190 modded fuel pump?

The TPS is easy to check with a multimeter and you'll know quickly if it is any good.

Don't assume the 4G63 ecu is bad until you get the correct injectors installed for it. As the dsmtuners article states, "The turbo ECU expects 450 cc injectors and may offer more timing and aggressive fuel maps."

The conversion is usually done all together to eliminate rogue issues. How are you planning to set and change the fuel settings on the new setup? Does the 4G63 have Link?

 

[1Gina2G]

So what is the configuration that doesn't keep running? The 4G64 ecu with stock injectors and a 190 modded fuel pump?

The TPS is easy to check with a multimeter and you'll know quickly if it is any good.

to start off thanks for contributing to the thread. something new also happened after putting the non turbo 4g64 ecu AGAIN today, which makes me belive it definatley has to be the TPS. The setup that I could not get to start was with a 1995 eprom turbo ecu with oem knock sensor installed in block and harness, along with a brand new 2g 95 throttle body. followed the rewire guide %100 minus the install of my 450c turbo injectors, which would be best to do upon actual turbo install. car would actually start for under 10 seconds or so, sometimes 30 seconds, running really rough as if misfiring or running rich or lean, dont have the gauges fully wired in yet to have any readings. ignition timing is non adjustable on these 1999 body styles according to the manual, and BISS screw is 2 rotations backed out, TPS in the center, was having issues adjusting it, (getting readings). after the first turbo ecu install i checked tps and IAC and IAC fully checks out. initialy pins 1 and 4 of the TPS, the very two end pins of the sensor had and are suppossed to have an ohms value between 3.5k-6.5k I belive, and it did, granted this TPS worked perfectly on my last car almost a year ago since use though, along with the ECU. after checking both sets of 2 pins for ohm changes durring the opening of the TB, the values only changed on 1 set of 2. I then left the turbo TB installed and sensors of course, and rewired the n/t ecu back and car idles and drives just fine, little better I guess since new TB. thought I found an issue with the spark plug wires so put the turbo ecu in with no change, even after re-wiring the fuel pump with 10 guage and having its own relay. either way, fuel pump is getting voltage and you can hear it run, cars deffinatley getting gas just not firing right. proceeded to recheck the turbo ecu for marks along with the TPS, ecu looks great but values are not making any since for the most part on the TPS. the fuel pump relay change is the biggest part of the rewire next to the knock sensor install. ordered 2 used ones for less then half the cost of new OEM today, hopefully they test out bettter. sure enough with the N/T ECU back in (wanted to be able to drive the car tommorow but cant NOW) the car has a bad idle, (still with turbo TB and sensors installed), took out for a test drive and car shakes like untill you hit the gas even more then you would need, like an ignition timing shake. back in the garage .

Don't assume the 4G63 ecu is bad until you get the correct injectors installed for it. As the dsmtuners article states, "The turbo ECU expects 450 cc injectors and may offer more timing and aggressive fuel maps."

after today im pretty sure the turbo ecu is good. even though it is expecting the turbo injectors, what it really comes down to is the impedence. turbo ecu i belive sends the same signal, to power whatever injectors, but if you use the low impedence turbo injectors you have to have a singal wire hit the resistor back before it hits / goes back to the ecu, to avoid frying the ecu through long term use. because of this the turbo ecu can handle the stock 275 injectors and actually run the car n/t in the mean time. a friend i know has also done this exact swap but in a 98 auto 4g64 with a 98 ecu, who has done & suggested just this as brought up from curts guide (1st one) we were both thinking either ECU or TPS, probably TPS. injectors check out just fine upon ohm testing along with signal from the harness.

 

[DogWhistle]

Quote: "...cars deffinatley getting gas just not firing right."

I don't have the ability to look this up right now, but are you sure the firing order is the same for both ecu's?

 

[1Gina2G]

Quote: "...cars deffinatley getting gas just not firing right."

I don't have the ability to look this up right now, but are you sure the firing order is the same for both ecu's?

there was a bit of confusion with this but as far as I see in the manual, firing orders exactly same. thing is upon taking the tps off for bench testing, tps actually check out %100, harder to hold the probes with it in the car. also wondering if there is a possibility of the TB shaft not hitting the sensor correctly, as I noticed with the TPS off, this brass peice on 1 side was bent, so rebent with needle nose after asking about it to the TB rebuilder, purchased from earlier. last start I could not even get the N/T ecu to run the engine as is, now runs with n/t ecu no problem.

heres something that i noticed today though, after going through the TPS sensors , both check out, but also went ahead and checked the coolant sensor as ive done since the first no start, ohm readings are inconsistent and come and go quickly, recently replaced generic ect sensor from a local parts store, very well may have contributed to the no start with this turbo ECU. The 4g64 n/t ecu will still start without the ECT functional or unplugged. I will update this thread once the OEM sensor arrives, ordered it 2 day shipping so hopefully I can see whats up saturday.

 

[1Gina2G]

okay guys so now im leaning back towards a possible bad ecu. everythings wired in correctly a double checked. you can here the fuel pump and smell the gas, the coolant sensor plug also does not look wore out. i even took the feed line off the fuel rail and had a friend crank over with the injectors unplugged, and its deffinatley getting clean gas, recently replaced the fuel filter. just for the hell of it ive swapped 1&4 with 2&3 with no good results. the correct order is still 4-1-2-3, and car will actually start up but rough idle i do not understand. new throttle body, fully tested both the IAC and TPS sensor, adjusted the TPS to .63V. replaced main coolant sensor with a brand new one after bench testing. car still does not idle steadily and wants to die, and even faster when the gas peddle is pressed. anything else I can possibly check before I ship off my ecu tomorow?

 

[1Gina2G]

okay guys I didnt ship my ecu out just yet, realized there are some possible differences with the CAS, obviously not the same sensor between all the years in just the turbo models alone, but not much is said/know if the same goes for the 4g64 as well. turbo ecu write up clearly says turbo ecu's between 95-99 will work, and mentions nothing of a change in firing order or CAS / CAS wiring. going to buy a scan tool tommorow and see what the computer has to say, if nothing i'll ship it off for a rebuild. otherwise if i get any codes I will look for a new sensor(s) or ecu.

thing is after looking up the part numbers for all year 4g64 eclipse,96-99 (spyders made starting 96) they all come up the same part number, same price from mitsubishi. I called the dealership and the parts I was asking him if theres a possibility of difference between the years if the part numbers are the same, he checked out a little further and sure enough, he says he sees a huge difference in cost, for year 96 being much higher. he was trying to ask more and more what I was trying to do , I didnt want to explain the entirety of the turbo swap, so just told him I swapped a 96 4g64 engine into my 99 body, having no start issues. he said he could not assure me anything and could give me more info if i also had the VIN number of the 96 car which i dont have . this is nothing about the crank sensor...[DOUBLEPOST=1408490398][/DOUBLEPOST]okay guys so strange enough, the code reader does not read a single code from the turbo ecu, with the key turned on after trying to start with no results. nothing what so ever. as a final resort, i switched around injector wires 4 to 1 and 2 to 3 at the ecu and all spark plug wire combinations, with i only starting up for 5 seconds and just dies anf still wony idle with plug wires 4-1-2-3. still no ecu codes. i will now try switching to a 97 ecu, and pray for the best.

 

[DogWhistle]

Sorry to hear it's not running right.

I had a couple thoughts. When you said you could "hear the fuel pump and smell gas". That's not supposed to happen. The fuel system is sealed, and there should be no place that gas fumes can be smelled. You should check the fuel pump tank ring, fuel lines and fittings, filter connections, fuel rail -- both ends, and by each injector. Check the vac line from the fuel pressure regulator to make sure the regulator diaphram is not ruptured. Finally, check the evap lines and canister.

My other thought is a possible Idle Control Solenoid. If they are stuck open or shut will make a huge difference in both idling and running. There are a couple of good posts about that on here recently.

 

[1Gina2G]

update everyone-- the engine runs and does not die now, after installing the 450 injectors and resistor pack. Car holds an idle but still sounds off, drives horrible as if ignition timing off, clearly misfiring. depending on the spark plug arrangement the ecu wont display the service engine light on the dash, which it will when it sees misfire.

I have an out of state friend that mentioned to me that he used his 275s in his turbo ecu, but later told me that he flashed the ecu for 275s since he had the turbo black box. apparently you can flash the n/t spyder ecus, if theyre black blox. thing is im expecting my 97 ecu to be delivered in the next cupple days.

im still betting miscommunication between the ecu and cas. otherwise could be the fact there is no turbo. but the guides suggest you can setup the ecu first in the meantime. not sure what else i could check

 

[1Gina2G]

okay guys still having alot of issues with the way it fires. not sure whats wrong or what I need....especially with %100 ignition system I have. ecu does not look bad, looks /smells knew and testing out main ground pin 92 to the circuit board I got perfect continuity.

not sure about how my vacuum lines are supposed to be set up but it looks like everything connected. how to people go about deleting the TB ports on top? do you actually need them?

car displayed a CEL, pulled 1 code using evoscan and it said circuit malfunction on cylinder 4. sure enough after pulling the rail, cylinder 4 injector came out with a cupple drops of gas on it, being the only one and upon close inspection I found a crack. so small not sure if it was there before or after the install.

anyways, so in the meantime I rewired back to n/t with the 275 injectors to be able the drive the car today but cant. its almost as if the injectors are firing wrong, i know for a fact these 4g64s spark plug order is 4123 looking at the coil pack, where each number is the cylinder it goes to. only thing ive tested so far that the red wire that I actually messed with, for going to the turbo resistor pack. which turns out to be a constant hot. so possible signal ecu wires switch at ground. havent fully tested out the circuit yet, but needless to say, pretty disapointing to not be able to drive, going back to the n/t ecu.

sure enough my 97 ecu came in the other day, plugged it in and tried to start, ecu only turns the engine over but no fuel pump, so no start. ecu is getting returned and now getting a 98 black box ecu, to hopefully work better with the CAS.

suggestions anyone?