Car doesn't turn correctly ~ BAD Differential or T-case?

[tabby5150]

I have a 1990 Talon AWD that is bone stock. It has a few weird noises and is mounted on 17" rims that are completly balanced and in great shape.
The car when making tight turns such as in a tight parking spot or when backing up causes the car to hop and skip and chirp the tires. It did this with the stock wheels and tires also. The car is aligned so that isn't a problem. We believe the problems to be:
1. Parking Brake is holiding the calipers, all calipers have been replaced in the car
2. Transfer recall done, t-case was OK didn't need replacing
3. Rear differential is locking up or is going bad
4. The struts and or rear camber is off, the tires do line slighlty inward although this seems normal for an AWD

I'm not sure of the scope of the problem although I need some help because it becomes quite annoying to have to backup and realign the car when your pulling into a parking sopt with a car that is suppose to have a tight turning radius.
Please let me know.
Thanks.

 

[Defiant]

Bad CV joint? any other clicking ever heard?

 

[candela]

2. Transfer recall done, t-case was OK didn't need replacing

Are you sure?

Did you check the center diff or viscous at all? And just so you know all DSM"s have the worst turnign radius of any car! SUV's turn better than us

 

[4pistons]

when making tight turns such as in a tight parking spot or when backing up causes the car to hop and skip and chirp the tires

Center Diff problem. That's exactly what my car does with a welded center diff. I just live with it, it's no big deal, because mine is welded. But you'd better check yours 'cause it could lead to tranny and/or X-fer case failure.

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[talonted_one]

busted center diff. kiss your spider gears good bye.

 

[tabby5150]

I thin we might try to take the car to a different dealer for the recall and demand that they replace it anyways, is it possible for the rear diff by the gas tank to cause this problem? Or are all of you saying that it is the t-case which connects the driveshaft to the rear diff? please clarify.
The car still runs and drives, and the problem doesn't appear to be getting worse, so whatever it is it has been like this for a while.
Thanks!

 

[4pistons]

are all of you saying that it is the t-case which connects the driveshaft to the rear diff?

It's your CENTER differential, the one inside your transmission. It couples the front to the rear. Its failing really has nothing to do with the transfer case so you might not have any grounds to get the dealer to fix it. Its another one of those inherent DSM problems that seem to be common.

If you let it go too much longer you will grind off the splines on your output shaft and mess up the transfer case. It may even spew chunks into your tranny and lunch that, too. Get it fixed. And FORGET about going to a dealer for it. Find a reputable shop, hopefully one that does DSMs, and get it done.

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[4pistons]

are all of you saying that it is the t-case which connects the driveshaft to the rear diff?

It's your CENTER differential, the one inside your transmission. It couples the front to the rear. Its failing really has nothing to do with the transfer case so you might not have any grounds to get the dealer to fix it. Its another one of those inherent DSM problems that seem to be common.

If you let it go too much longer you will grind off the splines on your output shaft and mess up the transfer case. It may even spew chunks into your tranny and lunch that, too. Get it fixed. And FORGET about going to a dealer for it. Find a reputable shop, hopefully one that does DSMs, and get it done.

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[4pistons]

Sorry for the double post! I kept getting the dreaded "Website not responding" error message and then it finally worked.

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[DrZiplok]

I've been experiencing similar problems; when I pulled the end cover off the transmission I found that the centre diff seemed to be OK (with three wheels off the ground I can make the two shafts that go to the viscous rotate at different speeds).

However, I can't for the life of me make the viscous itself spin. If I take the "wide" input spline and jam it onto a piece of bar stock, as I understand it I ought to be able to spin the body of the VC, albeit very slowly.

I can't make it move at all. Has it seized?

 

[4pistons]

when I pulled the end cover off the transmission I found that the centre diff seemed to be OK

I don't think you can check the center diff with only the end cover off since it sits behind the second cover.

I can make the two shafts that go to the viscous rotate at different speeds

This is a good indication that the VC is slipping too much and may be shot.

I can't for the life of me make the viscous itself spin

Try turning the engine over by hand in gear. That should make it turn. The wheels may not be able to spin the VC if you don't have an LSD center diff.

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[DrZiplok]

Originally posted by 4pistons

I don't think you can check the center diff with only the end cover off since it sits behind the second cover.

One can at least verify its basic operation, and whether there is shrapnel trapped inside based on whether it it's locked or not.

This is a good indication that the VC is slipping too much and may be shot.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clearer; I removed the VC before attempting to test the diff. The VC is if anything jammed solid, since my original problem seems to be front-rear lockup.

Try turning the engine over by hand in gear. That should make it turn. The wheels may not be able to spin the VC if you don't have an LSD center diff.

This doesn't make any sense to me. If I don't have an LSD centre diff, I won't have a VC and thus won't have anything to be spinning.

However, I do have an LSD centre diff. Oddly perhaps, I have no trouble spinning one rear wheel, even with the other on the ground.

= Mike

 

[tabby5150]

I was reading about how the TOE-IN on an alignment can cause the tires to scrub on the ground when turnog, do you think it may be possioble that alingment is causing the car to hop and skip when you make tight-radius turns? I'm just trying to get this figured out!

The car is with Dodge right now getting the T-case recall, they seem to be pretty dumb about the car, and even admitted to not having service manuals for the car...this really makes me feel great about them working on it! They provided no real answer why the car hops and skips, basicly wasting my $65 an hour labor quote...great!

Soon I plan to put some Eibach Pro's and some struts off a car with 48k, which should help the car as a whole. After that I plan to do a 4 wheel alignment, although after doing some reading I observed that the camber or caster can not be adjusted on these cars, so does this mean an alignment will be a waste of time?
Thanks!

 

[ASZRAEL1266]

I also think it is your center diff. Check to see if it is welded. Mine is welded and when i turn into parking spots it feels like the breaks are on and you have to give it more gas to turn and a rear tire will skip. Be very carefull if that is the case. I havn't had my car one year yet and i have already snapped 2 rear axels. I also have a 3 bolt rear end so its not that strong. With the welded center diff it will just weaken your rear axels over time if you daily drive it.

 

[tabby5150]

The car was bone stock when I got it, it was lady driven and from what I can tell it wasn't abused at all. It is very unlikely that it is a welded diff, because this would mean it was modified to some extent, and it hasn't been.

Dodge finished the recall and wasted my time. They told me it needs a new clutch and CV shaft and still charged me 73$. I told them to look at my car again after I fix these issues and then they can tell me what is actually wrong with it. They agreed to do this free of charge. Although without a shop manual for the car I can't expect much from them.

Thanks for the help.

 

[4pistons]

It may not be a welded diff but I bet that a side gear thrust washer is failed and siezed the side gear making it seem like a welded diff. It is a common problem on AWD DSMs. My car was bone stock, too when mine failed at 95k miles. It does not seem to be caused by abuse. I guarantee that it will not get any better by itself.

I can tell you how to look for the symptoms. Remove the X-fer case and check the splines on the output shaft. If they seem "worn" grab the output shaft and try to move it in and out of the tranny. If it moves more than a few thousandths you've found the problem. The only way to fix it is to rebuild the diff to stock specs, weld it, or put in an aftermarket diff.

I have a diagram of the center diff showing the offending parts and how to go about welding it if anyone is interested. [email protected]

I told them to look at my car again after I fix these issues and then they can tell me what is actually wrong

The dealer won't have a friggen clue or they would have told you already. There is a reason we call them "SATAN"!

Rick - '91 GSX