2G Car clicks but wont start. Need expert advice!

[imagine3163]

Ok guys I feel like I have checked everything and think I might know what the problem is. The problem is that sometimes when I try to start the car, all I hear is a clicking noise and the engine will not turn over. Things I have checked:

1) Battery is fully charged and terminals are tight
2) I already replaced the starter
3) The click is NOT coming from the relay, it is coming from the starter solenoid
4) The power wire going from the battery to the starter is getting over 12 volts
5) The starter switch (The supply on the very top of the starter which I assume is getting its power from the relay in the dash) is only getting 5-6 volts while trying to start the car.
6) If I run a separate 12V pwr wire to the switch on the top of the starter (to manually jump the starter), the car cranks over fine.
7) I checked the relay per the Haynes manual and with power going to terminal 2 and terminal 4 being grounded, I WAS getting continuity (+12 volts) between terminals 3 and 4.

I am thinking that this has the be a problem with the relay by the radio, but I just wanted to double check to see if you guys thought something else could be the problem. Would it be the relays fault if I was only getting half the necessary voltage (6 volts) to the top of the starter?

Thanks!

 

[gusu]

Ok guys I feel like I have checked everything and think I might know what the problem is. The problem is that sometimes when I try to start the car, all I hear is a clicking noise and the engine will not turn over. Things I have checked:

1) Battery is fully charged and terminals are tight
2) I already replaced the starter
3) The click is NOT coming from the relay, it is coming from the starter solenoid
4) The power wire going from the battery to the starter is getting over 12 volts
5) The starter switch (The supply on the very top of the starter which I assume is getting its power from the relay in the dash) is only getting 5-6 volts while trying to start the car.
6) If I run a separate 12V pwr wire to the switch on the top of the starter (to manually jump the starter), the car cranks over fine.
7) I checked the relay per the Haynes manual and with power going to terminal 2 and terminal 4 being grounded, I WAS getting continuity (+12 volts) between terminals 3 and 4.

I am thinking that this has the be a problem with the relay by the radio, but I just wanted to double check to see if you guys thought something else could be the problem. Would it be the relays fault if I was only getting half the necessary voltage (6 volts) to the top of the starter?

Thanks!

Are you sure the click is coming from the starter and not from your fuel pump? If your fuel pump isn't getting fuel it can also make a clicking sound but it will eventually start after several turns of the key.

I had a similar problem recently because of a clogged fuel filter.

 

[red1993gsallmt]

my friend called me with the same problem, he also chenged the starter but that wasent it.i found the gromit fell out of the clutch pedal for the switch, i bet you have the same problem. go under the dash and push the clutch in by hand and see if its pushing the switch. if the gromit falls out the switch just pokes through the hole the gromit sits in. also you can disconnect the switch, i always do this so i dont have to push the clutch in and put stress on the thrust bearing when starting tha car. ps: heard all the same clicking too

 

[imagine3163]

Thanks for the replies guys!

Are you sure the click is coming from the starter and not from your fuel pump? If your fuel pump isn't getting fuel it can also make a clicking sound but it will eventually start after several turns of the key.

I had a similar problem recently because of a clogged fuel filter.

Im positive its coming from the starter. My wife turned the key while I pinpointed the clicking sound. Also, my fuel pump is disconnected right now so its not getting power anyways.

my friend called me with the same problem, he also chenged the starter but that wasent it.i found the gromit fell out of the clutch pedal for the switch, i bet you have the same problem. go under the dash and push the clutch in by hand and see if its pushing the switch. if the gromit falls out the switch just pokes through the hole the gromit sits in. also you can disconnect the switch, i always do this so i dont have to push the clutch in and put stress on the thrust bearing when starting tha car. ps: heard all the same clicking too

I also have my clutch switch disconnected so that wouldn't be it right?

 

[luv2rallye]

Sounds like it could be the starter relay alright (either that or a partial short to ground). The starter relay is normally closed (black-red wire connects to black-yellow thru relay) and only opens when either the theft alarm starter relay trips or the clutch pedal is not pressed down. If you don't care about these conditions just remove the starter relay and jumper the black-red wire to black-yellow permanently (or even temporarily for testing voltage at starter solenoid).

 

[imagine3163]

Sounds like it could be the starter relay alright (either that or a partial short to ground). The starter relay is normally closed (black-red wire connects to black-yellow thru relay) and only opens when either the theft alarm starter relay trips or the clutch pedal is not pressed down. If you don't care about these conditions just remove the starter relay and jumper the black-red wire to black-yellow permanently (or even temporarily for testing voltage at starter solenoid).

Well, I spliced the black-yellow to the black-red (there were two but I did the one that was right next to it) and it did the same thing. I still only got 4-5 volts to the top of the starter. So I guess this rules out the relay? Since the black-yellow wire goes straight to the top of the starter I guess I will trace the source of the black-red wire I used and find out where the drop is coming from

Update: Ok, so I tested the voltage to the red-black wire before it goes it connected to the yellow-black wire and it was putting out a strong 12volts. So, this means that either the yellow-black wire is getting partially grounded or it is corroded enough to cause that much of a drop. I will pick up some wire to run out to the starter and see if that doesnt fix it.

 

[luv2rallye]

Make sure you use a tester light (something with a load on it, like a 12v light bulb, but not an led) as well as a voltmeter to find a true no resistance power source. Any wire with too much resistance (or goes through a legitimate load) will always read 12v when it's not connected on this end (no current flow). But put on a tester light and any wire's resistance (or connector resistance or legitamate load) will cause a voltage drop causing only half brightness on the tester light.

 

[imagine3163]

Make sure you use a tester light (something with a load on it, like a 12v light bulb, but not an led) as well as a voltmeter to find a true no resistance power source. Any wire with too much resistance (or goes through a legitimate load) will always read 12v when it's not connected on this end (no current flow). But put on a tester light and any wire's resistance (or connector resistance or legitamate load) will cause a voltage drop causing only half brightness on the tester light.

I have a tester light that I connected to it, but I believe its the LED kind. It light up nice and bright from the black-red light. From what you are saying, it definately sounds like whenever there is a load on that wire it drops down to 5 volts. So, what do you suggest I look for next?

Update: I got some new 14 gauge wire that I ran from the black-red starter wire and when I test the end of the wire with a volt meter (without it plugged into the top of the starter) it reads a solid 12volts. BUT, as soon as I attach it to the top of the starter it drops down to 5volts as soon as the key goes to the start position. If I attach some extra 14 gauge wire from the positive side of the battery I can "jump" the starter EVERY TIME. This is so frustrating I dont know what else to check. Could it be a problem with the ignition relay/switch dropping voltage? I would really prefer to not have to hot wire my car every time I want to start it

 

[luv2rallye]

As I said an LED tester light is USELESS!. It draws so little current that it will always light no matter what (not to mention it is polorized). You MUST use an incandescent light for the tester (a 12v turn, dome, stop, running, headlight, store bought one, etc) that will act as a significant load (draw current) so that any high resistance area upwind (from starter towards battery) will show up as a voltage drop across it which will reduce the voltage at the light (gets dimmer). Since you said the starter works when you jumpered the solenoid right to the battery, there must be a partial short or high resistance point along the path from the starter upward. Use light tester on the black-red without it jumpered to the black-yellow (and no relay in) and key to start. If dim light then problem is upwind further and you should test right on the black-red at the ignition switch (which may even be the problem).

When you "hot wire" the starter where exactly are you connecting the battery positive to?

 

[imagine3163]

When you "hot wire" the starter where exactly are you connecting the battery positive to?

I am leaving the normal positive and negative cables going to it from the battery and then I am connecting a new 12v source that isn't dropping to the S terminal on the top of the starter. I will check the voltage coming out of the ignition switch and let you know what I find.

Update: Well I finally found the problem. It ended up being the aftermarket Viper alarm that was installed before I bought the car 6 years ago Somehow it was losing voltage like crazy. Anyways, thanks so much for the help it was greatly appreciated!

 

[bikejpmz]

Super old thread, but to help anyone else who still has a DSM and is having the starter clicks, relay clicks, but car won't start problem. I also measured voltage at the black & brown wire at the starter and figured the wire had a short somewhere or something else in the system was drawing a load. I also thought it was the starter or the battery, but I replaced both and still had the problem, just less often. More power, like a new battery or a jump start, gets more volts to the starter and gets the car to turn over most of the time, but for me it turned out to be interference from the ETACS ECU & Theft Alarm Starter Relay portion of the starting circuit.

Car: 1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS-T. Starter clicks, clicking, won't start, will not start, starter relay, theft alarm relay, ETACS ECU, low voltage to starter, car won't start.

Solution: I cut the thin green wire going to the Theft Alarm Starter Relay located under the driver's side dash to the left of the steering wheel. The wire goes to pin 2 or pin 5 (can't remember which now), but if you have the maintenance manual it's manual 3, page 90-40, relay B-43X. No more starting problems afterwards. Car starts right up every time, using the clutch pedal/switch like normal. I cut the wire but put male and female spade connectors in where I cut the wire just in case I want to reconnect it later.

I believe power goes through the Starter Relay, B-57, and the Clutch Pedal Position Switch, B-03, opening the circuit to the starter so the car cannot start. Once you press the clutch in, B-03 opens the circuit that keeps B-57 energized (its coil loses power and the contacts go back to normally closed) so the circuit to the starter gets completed and the starter coil gets power - the car starts. However, the Theft Alarm Starter Relay, B-43X, also provides a path to ground for the starter relay, B-57; so if B-43X remains closed then the clutch switch B-03 gets ignored. So you sit there pushing on the clutch and turning the key and you get clicks from the starter relay, B-57, because it gets energized, opening the circuit to the starter, but never drops because the clutch switch can't break B-57's ground. Or you get clicks at the starter because B-43X circuit is drawing off some of the power that is trying to get to the starter. Either way, once I cut the green wire that allows the B-43X part of the start circuit to interfere, I had no more starting problems.

However, I do have a scratching noise during certain portions of the cycle to turn over the engine. So I suspect that some of the teeth on either the starter or the flywheel may have been damaged from all of the partial power starts that I endured when the problem was first rearing its head, so many months ago. Or perhaps there is still a voltage problem where the starter is partially disengaging during engine turnover. Not sure, but at least the engine turns over every time - for about 2 weeks straight now. My mitigation of the scratching issue is to turn the key for only a second to catch the starter & flywheel where the engagement is solid. Basically try to start the car in short bursts. Usually takes 2 and it starts up. If I hear the scratch then at least I didn't keep the starter running long, and if I don't hear it then I'm probably where the teeth are good and I'll hold the key in for 2 seconds and it starts up.

I'll post some pictures of the wiring diagram another time or sooner if someone asks. Just wanted to throw this on the board if anyone is still looking for solutions.

 

[RedGST98]

Super old thread, but to help anyone else who still has a DSM and is having the starter clicks, relay clicks, but car won't start problem. I also measured voltage at the black & brown wire at the starter and figured the wire had a short somewhere or something else in the system was drawing a load. I also thought it was the starter or the battery, but I replaced both and still had the problem, just less often. More power, like a new battery or a jump start, gets more volts to the starter and gets the car to turn over most of the time, but for me it turned out to be interference from the ETACS ECU & Theft Alarm Starter Relay portion of the starting circuit.

Car: 1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS-T. Starter clicks, clicking, won't start, will not start, starter relay, theft alarm relay, ETACS ECU, low voltage to starter, car won't start.

Solution: I cut the thin green wire going to the Theft Alarm Starter Relay located under the driver's side dash to the left of the steering wheel. The wire goes to pin 2 or pin 5 (can't remember which now), but if you have the maintenance manual it's manual 3, page 90-40, relay B-43X. No more starting problems afterwards. Car starts right up every time, using the clutch pedal/switch like normal. I cut the wire but put male and female spade connectors in where I cut the wire just in case I want to reconnect it later.

I believe power goes through the Starter Relay, B-57, and the Clutch Pedal Position Switch, B-03, opening the circuit to the starter so the car cannot start. Once you press the clutch in, B-03 opens the circuit that keeps B-57 energized (its coil loses power and the contacts go back to normally closed) so the circuit to the starter gets completed and the starter coil gets power - the car starts. However, the Theft Alarm Starter Relay, B-43X, also provides a path to ground for the starter relay, B-57; so if B-43X remains closed then the clutch switch B-03 gets ignored. So you sit there pushing on the clutch and turning the key and you get clicks from the starter relay, B-57, because it gets energized, opening the circuit to the starter, but never drops because the clutch switch can't break B-57's ground. Or you get clicks at the starter because B-43X circuit is drawing off some of the power that is trying to get to the starter. Either way, once I cut the green wire that allows the B-43X part of the start circuit to interfere, I had no more starting problems.

However, I do have a scratching noise during certain portions of the cycle to turn over the engine. So I suspect that some of the teeth on either the starter or the flywheel may have been damaged from all of the partial power starts that I endured when the problem was first rearing its head, so many months ago. Or perhaps there is still a voltage problem where the starter is partially disengaging during engine turnover. Not sure, but at least the engine turns over every time - for about 2 weeks straight now. My mitigation of the scratching issue is to turn the key for only a second to catch the starter & flywheel where the engagement is solid. Basically try to start the car in short bursts. Usually takes 2 and it starts up. If I hear the scratch then at least I didn't keep the starter running long, and if I don't hear it then I'm probably where the teeth are good and I'll hold the key in for 2 seconds and it starts up.

I'll post some pictures of the wiring diagram another time or sooner if someone asks. Just wanted to throw this on the board if anyone is still looking for solutions.

I tried this and have no problems since either.. been dealing with this for ever.. only thing I will add is the wire is not just green it is green with black stripe. I say this because there is also a light green wire

 

[Jimmy Edwards]

I tried this and have no problems since either.. been dealing with this for ever.. only thing I will add is the wire is not just green it is green with black stripe. I say this because there is also a light green wire

Are you having the same "scratching" noise as bikejpmz is? I have the same problem but haven't started trying to fix it yet with cutting the green/black wire.