The Top DSM Community on the Web

For 1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 Owners. Log in to remove most ads.

Please Support Rix Racing
Please Support ExtremePSI

Bose, from the wave radio to..... Suspension systems????

This site may earn a commission from merchant
affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

interesting. i bet they will be expensive as shit. that is even if they will make them for dsm's
 
defrag010 said:
http://www.automobilemag.com/news/0410_bose/

Interesting read. The concept is there, and they seem to be on the ball with the application and real world testing.

Maybe a future solution to FWD whel hop? :laugh:

I know I'm keeping my eyes out on the updates on this..


Man, that does sound like it will eliminate wheel hop. That is absolutely awesome. But im wondering if it will be for popular applications including dsm's.

hmm.
 
It sounds like they will be going to one manufacuter to team up with. I'm sure it will be interduced on new cars and highly doubt they will be making it to retro fit older cars. Did you see how much stuff is needed to run it, motor, amplifiers, ECU, ect. I can promise you that this will never be made for a DSM, and if it was it would be so expensive there wouldn't be a DSMer that could afford it.
 
I think by manufacturer, they mean like Bilstein, tokico, KYB, eibach, etc... If you watch the video, you can see the installation of the system on a lexus and a porsche..

I bet they will offer universal kits.. that is If it's availble anytime soon.

If bose wasn't private, I'd buy stock in that!!
 
The Porsche did not have it installed, it was just to demonstrate a sports car suspension. Yes they had it on a Lexus but they need some car to test it on, I don't think that they would design a new car to put the setup in. I think this will be an option on a high end car. If you really think that this is going to be sold by aftermarket companies like Koni or Bilstien your dreaming. The technology may trickle down to the aftermarket after its been proven on a automobile that has been produced by it. Think about suspension that can be adjusted for stiffness from the drivers seat, it was done by several car companies before Tien did it. This does look like an awesome suspension with a lot of potential, I just don't ever see it being made for a DSM ever.
 
Exactly. Something like this might make it's way to Mercedes etc to replace their air-ride system. If it does make it to the aftermarket, you can bet it's going to be a pretty penny...Wild guess, maybe $5 to 10k?
 
Yea its a shame Bose is a privately held company. They could make millions and millions on this idea.
 
They expect the system to be commercially available on "high end" autos in 2009.
 
This is a very remarkable system and it doesn't use much power (as is the downfall of some other active suspensions).

When I saw their vehicle jump over a rail road tie under it's own power (leap like a cat) I was floored. These guys have the greatest advancement in suspension technology... period.

Don't think of it as jumping from designing speakers to designing suspensions... think of it as applying speaker technology to automotive suspensions....
 
They do not work well for racing. Most of all, they control sway by (effectively) locking the outside suspension. One bump at high speed and they skip sideways. Citroen tried it a long time ago and gave up. Unless they have dealt with this issue, it will remain a combination of a gimmick and a way to give lighter cars the ride of a heavy car.

With that said, the jump was cool.

- Jtoby
 
They do not work well for racing. Most of all, they control sway by (effectively) locking the outside suspension. One bump at high speed ... a gimmick and a way to give lighter cars the ride of a heavy car. With that said, the jump was cool.- Jtoby

Is the crow tasty? These extreme-genius individuals presented to us at my company. (I have been paid to design chassis' for fifteen years) If I remember correctly the system was not a weight penalty - they redesigned the whole corner module including the rotor/caliper/knuckle, it is a system.

As for responsiveness, vehicle dynamics maneuvers are around 1-2Hz, whereas the impacts and bumps that are trivialized by the Bose system are over 5 Hz. The system is fast. I think the guy said it was difficult to get used to driving a car that leaned into the turn.

Racing is about low cg and not driver comfort. The Bose system advantage is more utilized by a road vehicle - perfect road camber, no body roll, perfect isolation. Racing could benefit by keeping the contact patch always on the road. The system "feels' the road and responds... bumps in the road actually provide energy back to the system so the overall power usage is very little.

As I said before, this is the biggest technological advancement to automotive suspension systems. I'm telling you, these guys are really really smart (and can implement their smartness in the real world)
 
I'm not following much of your post (maybe because of the attitude), but you seem to be making the same mistake as Dennis Grant. Calculate the frequency of a crack in the pavement at 45 mph, which is what matters to autocrossers. Calculate the frequency of a crack at 90, which matters to road racers. 5 Hz ain't gunna cut it.

- Jtoby
 
No mistakes here, I stated over 5Hz. Bose did not disclose the frequency response of their system to us. If you are really interested find the video driving inside the Porsche over a winding bumpy road. I recall a timed-side-by-side video of with and without the system over bumps and curves; the Bose side showed a completely controlled cabin at driving speed.

Dampers dissipate energy through fluid movement. The Bose system sucks the bump energy out of the system using magnetic coils, and re-uses the energy to control the wheel. Algorithms decide what the driver is doing, what the road conditions are, and how to deliver wheel travel response at each corner. Since there is no body roll and no ride height change (unless you want it) the suspension is designed to keep the contact patch square to the road.

If I recall correctly Bose invented this technology working on a non-wheeled vehicle, government defense project.
 
The problem that previous systems like this encountered came from using dampers to control body sway on uneven surfaces. In order to keep the car level, the outer dampers had to be very, very stiff, which made them incapable of absorbing movement when an outside wheel hit an imperfection. This caused the car to "skip" sideways. Thus, the system could only be used at low speeds or on perfectly flat surfaces.

If they have come up with a way to detect and respond to high-frequency inputs while still controlling body roll, then that would be great. Maybe processors are now fast enough to do this. But two things make me have doubts: first, the demos are all low-speed or smooth-surface; second, it takes time, by definition, to discriminate between compression due to weight transfer and compression due to a bump. I want to see the system hit a bump with an outside wheel while taking a hard turn.

With all that said, even if the latest version of these systems isn't perfect, the ability to make a damper that is anti-progressive is always useful. At least in compression, a damper that produces less force for a rapid input is better than a highly progressive damper. The best that a hydraulic damper can do is be highly digressive; it will never be anti-progressive.

- Jtoby
 
Again, I am recalling from well over a year ago... the system is capable of supporting the vehicle without springs, however they choose to use springs to support the static weight. they use yaw pitch roll (lat acc & steering wheel also?) sensor data in the algorithms to understand what the vehicle and driver are doing. I guess when something is encountered which doesn't fit the algorithm it is isolated as a road imperfection. i.e. the vehicle knows it is in a corner from yaw, roll, & lat-acc data... cross reference with wheel position for confirmation... resolve all four corner wheel positions... send appropriate power. Bumps in road create data that is filtered out of algorithm and allowed to isolate driver.

Bose did not divulge substantial technical data, just general concepts.
 
jtmcinder has got the right idea. We just recently tested this system at the Scottsdale Air Park and it is a phenomenal system but it isn't ready for the track yet. The new systems are electro-magnetic and use a magnetic fluid. They will start using them in 2010 on some high end European cars and in 2012 they will be available for the public for a mere $14,400.
 
...The new systems are electro-magnetic and use a magnetic fluid. ....

If this is the case, is it no longer a Bose system... but rather a Delphi system? Delphi has been in production for many years with an electro-rheological system on high end GM products. Porsche and many others are hooking up with Delphi.

Unless they have combined the two technologies, my understanding is the Bose system is different than the Delphi.
 
Just think about what would happen when the driver goes over bump while braking hard.
Or hits a bump with the outside wheel while turning hard, like jtmcinder said.

It would be insanely hard accomodate those bumps while keeping the car as controlled as it is in the videos. The only thing I can think of is at the moment of impact the wheel in question would retract at the perfect position and timing to absorb the bump yet provide the same contact pressure with the road. The intracacies and computational power necessary for that is kind of mind boggling.

I want to see how they solve those issues.
 
With a 3-axis accelerometer, YPR sensor, sensors on steering, throttle, & brake... you could get a "picture" of what the car is doing, and what the driver is asking it to do. The key factor as I understand is the ability to use a "speaker coil" or solenoid to extract energy from the road.

I do not know if the system is capable at high slip angle driving.
 
Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Boosted Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Fuel Injector Clinic Innovation Products Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications MyMitsubishiStore.com RixRacing RockAuto RTM Racing STM Tuned

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Vendor Updates

Latest Classifieds

Back
Top