Bargain Basement Big Brakes

[tsidrift1]

hey kittay, where did you pick up those evo rotors?

Anthony

 

[kittay]

Picked up the 03 Evo rotors just at Autozone.

No spacers. Just find some Bilsteins Search like EvoM. I'm running them on the silver car and love them! I did need a spacer for those. I believe the only thing you have to worry about is the rears. I never got the chance to see if it would line up, but for the strut mount was the right width.

 

[tkelly27]

Just a quick search in google comes up with
Weld Racing Wheels – Forged Truck, SUV, Car, Motorcycle and Racing Wheels
Which I kinda figured meant that a SRT8 rotor would fit (why would they change the hubs just for a bigger engine, ya know?). Anyone thought to try these? They would be 14.1" give or take, so you'd probably need some big rims. You'd also for sure need the hub adapter.

I think the complete set of 'vette calipers is a steal at $450
Corvette Z06 GM Brake Calipers
Maybe not the best you could find, but if it's good enough for the Z06...

Motorcycle style rotors? Could those be adapted? You might be able to modify the original brake rotors to adapt them, or use them as a template for an aluminum hat in a two piece arrangement. Are they durable enough? Go easy on me, just brainstorming...

 

[ZiggysDSM]

Picked up the 03 Evo rotors just at Autozone.

No spacers. Just find some Bilsteins Search like EvoM. I'm running them on the silver car and love them! I did need a spacer for those. I believe the only thing you have to worry about is the rears. I never got the chance to see if it would line up, but for the strut mount was the right width.

so your using evo8 suspenion with a 1g vr4 knuckle? just want to double check before i start buying this stuff

 

[kittay]

so your using evo8 suspenion with a 1g vr4 knuckle? just want to double check before i start buying this stuff

I have the Evo 8 suspension on the silver car. I have VR4 calipers on the black cherry. I haven't actually tried them together, but measuring them it looked like it would work.

 

[ZiggysDSM]

I had some adapters made for Camaro/ Corvette calipers
On my black cherry I have Evo rotors with 2g 3kgt vr4 calipers.
Also, you can use the 3kgt spindle and Evo struts and that setup does not require an adapter.

Doesn't matter, just use the Evo suspension with the 3kgt spindle.

I have the Evo 8 suspension on the silver car. I have VR4 calipers on the black cherry. I haven't actually tried them together, but measuring them it looked like it would work.

so what suspension is on the black cherry witht the vr4 knuckles?

 

[kittay]

so what suspension is on the black cherry witht the vr4 knuckles?

JIC.. dsm style, but I just have the calipers, still dsm spindle.
Sorry I've been a bit scatter brained.. got a lot going on right now

 

[ZiggysDSM]

JIC.. dsm style, but I just have the calipers, still dsm spindle.
Sorry I've been a bit scatter brained.. got a lot going on right now

so you have adapters for the vr4 calipers with evo rotors?

 

[kittay]

so you have adapters for the vr4 calipers with evo rotors?

Yuh. When I disassemble it this weekend to get the wheel bearings swapped out, I'll get a pic of it

 

[AndrewD5418]

3000gt spindle? You mean knuckle right?

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I always figured spindle and knuckle were interchangeable terms. At least that what I observe people doing.

 

[Locke]

They are used interchangeably, but spindle is a colloquialism and a misnomer when used this way.

On a 2wd vehicle, the spindle would be the stub that the idling wheels and their bearings mount to. Knuckle is a shortening of "steering knuckle", being the part that ties the joints together. Since the knuckle usually incorporates the spindle into into a single piece, the two terms are often used interchangeably.

 

[gixrman]

Has anyone looked into these Power Slot Big Brake Upgrade Kit Eclipse/Talon 4G63 - Power Slot - Big Brake Kits - Brakes - 89-99 Turbo 4G63 - Mitsubishi - CI Motorsports by powerslot. Seems like a good deal. How bad is the factory 2g caliper?

 

[UnderPrssureDSM]

Has anyone looked into these Power Slot Big Brake Upgrade Kit Eclipse/Talon 4G63 - Power Slot - Big Brake Kits - Brakes - 89-99 Turbo 4G63 - Mitsubishi - CI Motorsports by powerslot. Seems like a good deal. How bad is the factory 2g caliper?

With the Powerslot Plus system, it's not about the caliper... it's the increased disc size. With the increased lever arm radius, you get higher torque on the disc with the same clamping force privided by the OEM caliper.

[over-simplified math]

Remembering that Torque = Force applied x Length of lever arm. Think of braking as applying reverse torque.

Given (and using entirely arbitrary numbers for clamping force) OEM 2G AWD:
Front diameter 10.83" = 5.415" radius
Rear diameter 10.31" = 5.155" radius
Force = 100 psi
Torque from front calipers = 5415 pound-inches = 451.25 pound-feet
Torque from rear calipers = 5155 pound-inches = 429.58 pound-feet

Using the new sized rotors:
Front diameter 12.5" = 6.25" radius
Rear diameter 11.5" = 5.75" radius
Force = 100 psi ... because we haven't changed the caliper, remember
New front torque = 6250 pound-inches = 520.83 pound-feet
New rear torque = 5750 pound-inches = 479.17 pound-feet

Comparing, we see that front torque has increased by 15% and rear torque has increased by 12% over stock just by increasing the rotor size.

[/ over-simplified math]

 

[wret]

Torque is a big part of it, but the problem with the stock brakes in a motorsports application is not enough mass in the rotors to sink the heat that's being generated. It seems like the powerslot kit has that aspect covered.

 

[Jon Lane]

Has anyone looked into these Power Slot Big Brake Upgrade Kit Eclipse/Talon 4G63 - Power Slot - Big Brake Kits - Brakes - 89-99 Turbo 4G63 - Mitsubishi - CI Motorsports by powerslot. Seems like a good deal. How bad is the factory 2g caliper?

You got two great answers concerning the rotors. I wouldn't call them full-on race pieces (I use 'em) but for daily driving I think they're a lot more secure feeling than the stockers.

Being iron, the stock calipers simply weight a ton. I use the Wilwood FSL, which is aluminum. Hefting them side by side is quite a revelation -- you'd probably win back all the unsprung weight you gained going to the bigger rotors; maybe more.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I was really surprised at the price of the PowerSlot rotors. Just give me the brackets and I'll toss on some larger rotors from autozone/nappa/etc..
But the color is neat.

 

[gixrman]

Thanks guys, What drew me in was the low buck aspect of it since my car is a street driven car. I was thinking of geting the rotors now and upgrading the calipers later. Weight is a major concern but so is $.

 

[gixrman]

I was really surprised at the price of the PowerSlot rotors. Just give me the brackets and I'll toss on some larger rotors from autozone/nappa/etc..
But the color is neat.

I was thinking about that also but they have aluminum hats so your loosing weight, right? Compared to the audi and 3000gt setups talked about earlier.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I hear ya. Don't get me wrong those rotors are beautiful. They remind me of the K-sport rotors.
But good rotors can be had from almost anywhere. Sure They won't have aluminum hats but how much weight are we really saving here? Enough to matter? Enough to matter to anyone whose car isn't track-only?

Since the name of the game is inexpensive and available we ought to compile a list of brackets/adapters, they're availability and cost. Because, at the least, we want to move our stockers out to take advantage of larger rotors, or find brackets/adapters that will position a caliper from a different car in an equally suitable position.

Duh!... I know. And there's tonnes of info on here about such things, but its not very localized or cataloged in any useful manner.

Just think, x amount for brackets, and then a deal on rotors and you've got the cheapest big brake upgrade around. I'm under the impression that our stock calipers (AWD, at least) are quite fine parts and that combining them with an upgraded rotor could provide near the performance of $500-$1000 worth of parts.
Would anyone agree (or disagree)?

I just wouldn't drop decent change on frilly rotors (that may or may not be amazing) when I can achieve similar performance for less. If I had money for nice brake parts I'd just drop the coin on a nice Willwood setup, wouldn't you?

So, who knows about brackets that will move our stock calipers out a bit? ...I wonder if PowerSlot would entertain the thought of selling the brackets only..

 

[PieEyedPiper]

OK, well I have good news. At least I think so.
I called up PowerSlot and asked a few questions.

The brackets ARE available separately, but they can only be had from a major distributer such as Tire Rack, Summit, etc etc. More vendors can be found on the PowerSlot homepage.

The part number cannot be searched so you would have to call in and talk to a sales rep from one of the vendors. The part number is 32-0006.

EDIT: I just called Tire Rack and spoke to a rather disagreeable young man. The bottom line was they do not and will not sell the brackets alone. Only the kit. So really, your luck may vary vendor to vendor. It's too close to 5PM here now so I won't be making any other inquires for the day.

The excellently agreeable adult I spoke with at PowerSlot is also going to have the rotors weighed for me and call me back with the information.

 

[Todd TCE]

The limitations of the two piece power slots will be that the rotor mass is more but the overall width is not any wider so perceived mass is larger only. Same issue I have running the 13"x .810 kits. Great for street use, drags, maybe a track day or two but even it's a bit 'rotor challenged' with such a thin part. Despite being much larger in dia and and having more mass where it needs it.

For track day use the next factor becomes both the pads and stock caliper. The pads remain the same thickness whereas it would be nice to have more meat. The calipers won't take a wider rotor so the potential for heat issues remain present. You add 'track pads' and run the car harder you generate more heat and reach the rotors limits as before (but perhaps later) and then the caliper still can become heat soaked.

Nothing wrong with all this mind you. That's why they remain "bargain basement brakes" to some degree. Not sure how much lateral value I'd put on this over the Wilwood factory kit in some way. The extra 1/2r rotor would be nice but there's some trade off for weight savings and caliper design that swings the other way a bit too. Those two piece parts probably come in about 14lbs each I'd guess.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

The limitations of the two piece power slots will be that the rotor mass is more but the overall width is not any wider so perceived mass is larger only. Same issue I have running the 13"x .810 kits. Great for street use, drags, maybe a track day or two but even it's a bit 'rotor challenged' with such a thin part. Despite being much larger in dia and and having more mass where it needs it.

For track day use the next factor becomes both the pads and stock caliper. The pads remain the same thickness whereas it would be nice to have more meat. The calipers won't take a wider rotor so the potential for heat issues remain present. You add 'track pads' and run the car harder you generate more heat and reach the rotors limits as before (but perhaps later) and then the caliper still can become heat soaked.

Nothing wrong with all this mind you. That's why they remain "bargain basement brakes" to some degree. Not sure how much lateral value I'd put on this over the Wilwood factory kit in some way. The extra 1/2r rotor would be nice but there's some trade off for weight savings and caliper design that swings the other way a bit too. Those two piece parts probably come in about 14lbs each I'd guess.

Thanks for chiming in, Todd.
Its nice to hear from someone with your reputation about the limitations of the stock caliper and stock width rotors.

Your estimation of ~14lbs a piece has got to be as close to the truth as a guy can wager, as shipping weight for the whole thing is 30lbs.

 

[kingjust]

Has anybody looked at 350z, g35 rotors and calipers? they share the same bolt pattern with us.

I know this is truly old, but I did some hard research and found this:

The nissan altima SE-R (05 and up) have rotors that are 319mm I think. But the best kicker is that the hats of the rotor is 6 - 8mm deeper. Unlike the Cobra rotors which are shallower where spacers would be needed, i'm hoping these rotors will do the trick. Now, down side is that we all know the center bore size of the stock DSM is 67.1mm. The SE-R rotor is 68.8 - 69.1. Now, I've looked and I can't find anyone that make hubcentric spacers in that size. I'm still figuring out a way to over come that. One way I came up with is that 1010tires.com sell those hubcentric spacers. But they have 67.1 - 70.??, in either aluminum or plastic, which I would take the aluminum ones and put them on a lathe and take it down a milimeter or 2. Hope you guys look into this... and when ever I get this done, I will post up my results. Oh yeah, the calipers are going to be the Vr4 4 pots that I rebuilt myself which was pretty damn easy and Jon Lanes brackets... thanks my brotha!

Later,

KJ

 

[wortdog]

The Cobra rotor and VR4 caliper setup isn't on the car in this picture, but with these wheels I don't need spacers anymore when I do have it on (and I get to run 275/40/R17's):

17x9.5 Rota P45R(5X114.3/e30/73)

There is acres of space to fit whatever caliper I could ever want.