The Top DSM Community on the Web

For 1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 Owners. Log in to remove most ads.

Please Support Morrison Fabrications
Please Support STM Tuned

Bad news from the refineries.....

huafist

Proven Member
1,164
12
Sep 25, 2004
Morristown, Tennessee
Dark_Horse said:
In any business class/economics class you take, they usually talk about the law of diminishing returns.

Basic law of diminishing returns - there is an optimal production level for businesses that allows the per unit cost to be the lowest it can be. Once this production level is surpassed, the cost per unit rises quickly.

If refineries are running at 100% of capicity, they have obviously exceeded their optimal production level.

Oil companies will make profits no matter if they're running at 1% of capacity or 100% of capacity. They just jack up the prices to compensate for higher production costs.

I'm not debating the law of diminishing returns doesn't exist, I'm just questioning it's application as a reason for high gas prices. I'm simply observing that the "compensation" is exceeding the "higher production costs" and is just being used as an excuse to gouge people on a necessity of modern life.
 

set3422

Proven Member
364
0
Oct 23, 2002
Atlanta, Georgia
For those whose being proud of their ways of life, driving habits & living styles, well tell you what you won't get to enjoy them for that long if you keep up with that mentality. We all have it too well in America. Do some more travelling around the globe and see it for yourself that we are living it up here in the states. We shouldn't complain about what we are able to possess, instead we should use our effort on inventing new ideas and alternatives to energy that would make us strong.

With globalization and rise of China, we would be forced to compromise what we used to enjoy unless we don't come up with new ideas and inventions. With the rate of US universities producing engineering graduates, we don't have enough engineers & scientists to light up the bulbs to keep us strong; unless Department of Homeland Security reform their restrictions on immagrations for skilled or low skilled workers to allow them work in here for temporary timeframe. To fan the flame some more, religious groups/activitists are taking us a step backward by not encouraging science in public education and by supporting immagration bills to strength up the restrictions on immigration issues.

So there you have it, the facts and stop complaining and go get educated. "The only thing that is more expensive than education is ignorance." (Benjamin Franklin)




Set,
 

Dark_Horse

Proven Member
506
14
May 21, 2004
Morrison, Colorado
huafist said:
I'm simply observing that the "compensation" is exceeding the "higher production costs" and is just being used as an excuse to gouge people on a necessity of modern life.

Gouging = capitalism at it's best.

America has setup special laws for the oil/gas industry, so do you really think that congress/Capitol Hill really cares how much we get screwed at the pump? As an accounting major, it's very interesting the accounting laws in place to protect the oil/gas industry in America.

In any other business, if you dug/drilled into the ground but returned nothing, it's counted as an expense. In the oil/gas industry you can dig all the dry wells you like and count them as assets...And capatilize the costs of digging the dry wells.

We won't see any drop in gas prices for another few years (according to the President). We either need to heavily invest in other types of energy, produce more gasoline refineries or make way more efficient cars to dig ourselves out of the hole we're in now.
 

joshohatesuall

Proven Member
1,564
10
Aug 17, 2005
Union City, California
Dark_Horse said:
We won't see any drop in gas prices for another few years (according to the President). We either need to heavily invest in other types of energy, produce more gasoline refineries or make way more efficient cars to dig ourselves out of the hole we're in now.

aren't you worried about a "smug" problem?

ROFL
 

huafist

Proven Member
1,164
12
Sep 25, 2004
Morristown, Tennessee
set3422 said:
For those whose being proud of their ways of life, driving habits & living styles, well tell you what you won't get to enjoy them for that long if you keep up with that mentality. We all have it too well in America. Do some more travelling around the globe and see it for yourself that we are living it up here in the states. We shouldn't complain about what we are able to possess, instead we should use our effort on inventing new ideas and alternatives to energy that would make us strong.

With globalization and rise of China, we would be forced to compromise what we used to enjoy unless we don't come up with new ideas and inventions. With the rate of US universities producing engineering graduates, we don't have enough engineers & scientists to light up the bulbs to keep us strong; unless Department of Homeland Security reform their restrictions on immagrations for skilled or low skilled workers to allow them work in here for temporary timeframe. To fan the flame some more, religious groups/activitists are taking us a step backward by not encouraging science in public education and by supporting immagration bills to strength up the restrictions on immigration issues.

So there you have it, the facts and stop complaining and go get educated. "The only thing that is more expensive than education is ignorance." (Benjamin Franklin)




Set,

Again, what the rest of the world has no effect on what we can or can't have/do here in America, just like what we have or don't have doesn't dictate what England or Japan can or can't have. That's just stupid.
We do research alternative forms of energy. Just this year, in Albequerque, New Mexico, scientists created a reaction that was producing more energy than was used to initiate it using tungsten wires in a machine called the "Z-machine".
More research is being done into hydrogen-based energy and other forms of alternative energy all the time. Just because you don't see instant results doesn't mean we're not trying.
How many "new" ideas has China been responsible for in the past 50 years? They get their hands on what we and other countries come up with and then they reverse engineer and create inferior versions of it. Big whoop there. Granted, as China's economy grows they're using more and more fuel, but it's hardly a "doomsday prediction" for the U.S.
Immigration doesn't need to be reformed - it just needs to be enforced. There are numerous occassions where the INS has attempted to do their job, only to be told to back off by congress members after lobbyists in their respective states leaned on them.
I'm going to assume that your stab at religous groups and science is the whole "evolution vs. creationism" debate - God forbid someone not learn about Darwinism, they'll be digging ditches the rest of their lives :toobad:

Get your shit straight before you try to set everyone else straight. :rolleyes:
 

huafist

Proven Member
1,164
12
Sep 25, 2004
Morristown, Tennessee
Dark_Horse said:
Gouging = capitalism at it's best.

America has setup special laws for the oil/gas industry, so do you really think that congress/Capitol Hill really cares how much we get screwed at the pump? As an accounting major, it's very interesting the accounting laws in place to protect the oil/gas industry in America.

In any other business, if you dug/drilled into the ground but returned nothing, it's counted as an expense. In the oil/gas industry you can dig all the dry wells you like and count them as assets...And capatilize the costs of digging the dry wells.

We won't see any drop in gas prices for another few years (according to the President). We either need to heavily invest in other types of energy, produce more gasoline refineries or make way more efficient cars to dig ourselves out of the hole we're in now.

I'm far from taking up for the government when it comes to things like this. I know capitol hill doesn't give a two-bit damn about any of us - the lobbyists control them.

As I said in a previous post, just because instant results haven't been seen from alternative energy exploration doesn't mean it's not happening.

joshohatesuall said:
aren't you worried about a "smug" problem?

ROFL

:thumb: :D
 

Dark_Horse

Proven Member
506
14
May 21, 2004
Morrison, Colorado
huafist said:
Granted, as China's economy grows they're using more and more fuel, but it's hardly a "doomsday prediction" for the U.S.

I believe that it could be the beginning of a "doomsday prediction" for the US...If we don't start doing something about it now. China has made no qualms about the fact that they are willing to pay nearly any price for gasolinie/oil. One day their economy is going to surpass the United States (It's going to happen in our lifetime). Then they'll be the world power, sucking up all the oil (since they'll be willing and able to pay for it) with India hot on their heels. When this happens, the US will be SOL unless we have figured out something else.

We'll all see major changes in our lifetimes. Nations that were once the powerhouses of the world will be surpassed by what was at one point third world countries. You just can't keep an economy with 1 billion workers trying to live the "American Dream" down.
 

drivemusicnow

Proven Member
1,444
30
Nov 15, 2004
Germany, Europe
... Yes, I am clairvoyant.. Or I'm just not an effing idiot.

Do some math, at the rate that we send money over to china, and the past and predicted growth of China's economy, it probably won't even take the full 15 years.

Stop trying to look smarter because you end up looking like an idiot. All of this has nothing to do with the original post and you should probably get back on topic, as political posts are not allowed.
 

EclipseSH21

Proven Member
928
4
Aug 17, 2004
East Lyme, Connecticut
Dark_Horse said:
I believe that it could be the beginning of a "doomsday prediction" for the US...If we don't start doing something about it now. China has made no qualms about the fact that they are willing to pay nearly any price for gasolinie/oil. One day their economy is going to surpass the United States (It's going to happen in our lifetime). Then they'll be the world power, sucking up all the oil (since they'll be willing and able to pay for it) with India hot on their heels. When this happens, the US will be SOL unless we have figured out something else.

We'll all see major changes in our lifetimes. Nations that were once the powerhouses of the world will be surpassed by what was at one point third world countries. You just can't keep an economy with 1 billion workers trying to live the "American Dream" down.


It's all a series of ebb and flow- an economy growing a a rate as rapid as China is similar to a balloon- it will explode and crash, much like ours did in the 1930's. The US needs to see this for what it is, and let the Chinese economy keep going. The key is for true American companies to tap this Chinese market, much like they are feeding on us. If we see China not as a threat, but as an asset, the US will be at an advantage.
 

SinaiTSi

Proven Member
872
15
Aug 5, 2005
Misawa, Japan, Asia
EclipseSH21 said:
an economy growing a a rate as rapid as China is similar to a balloon- it will explode and crash, much like ours did in the 1930's.

OH CRAP!!! Who's gonna make our Happy Meal toys then?!?! OMG
 

mysticfire6602

Proven Member
1,192
6
Dec 23, 2004
Bloomsburg, Pennsylvania
if people stop driving v8's our gas would be much cheaper, so how about everyone stop buying v8's? if the united states averaged 2mpg or more per vehicle, we would be paying aporximatly a dollar less for fuel. i forget where i found that source, ill have to find it again.
 

01QuadDak

Proven Member
157
0
Jan 6, 2004
Glenolden, Pennsylvania
Actually, people driving V8's does not have that much influence as to what we pay at the pump. It is not the demand that sets the price, it is the "future" supply. Its a strange system the way wall street works it, but that is how it is done.
Another big factor is how much that the stockholders want to see as profit, if the stockholders want more, then the company will look at ways to maximize profits, and increase revenue.
There is actually a way to ruduce gas prices, but it requires more cash than most of us are willing to shell out, and more time than most people want to invest. Basically, have a large group of people start investing in oil companies, if the amount of stock that they own becomes large enough, the board of directors/ceo/VP's/VIP's of that company/overall market HAS to start listening to them. Of course it is totaly backwards to the usual thinking of wall street, buying stock to make less money on the stock, but spend less outside. Problem is it would require a large amount of stock purchases, to get your voices heard. Plus many of the shareholders would want nothing to do with an idea like this. It would lower the prce of the stocks, as well as the rate of return on that stock.
The refinery that I am at is not running at maximum, some refineries are and some arn't. It depends on what fuels are needed, and what blends are needed. The biggest restriction on them right now is how many tanks that they are limited too, they can produce a good bit more product, but have nowhere to put it, storage tank construction has basically been put on halt.
And on the ideas that china/india is a global power, its only on paper. A typical indian "university" has nothing on a top US university, and china is borrowing big time to increase their industries. China can make stuff cheap, but alot of it is garbage. You'd be surprised at the lack of machine quality in a typical scat or eagle crank, compared to callies, which are forged in japan, then machined over here. India puts out alot of "well educated" scientists, but FOR THE MOST PART, the best were taught over here.
This wasn't meant to be a pissing contest, but rather a "Hey, if you tuned you car for 94 octane gasoline, watch out, because you will now be getting a fuel with a lower BTU content, which may or may not damage your engine". Most stock cars will run perfectly fine, albeit with lower MPG, but a car SPECIFICALLY tuned, WELL tuned, WILL suffer when a different grade of fuel is introduced to it.
 

DSMBen

Proven Member
254
1
Jan 30, 2006
Madison, Wisconsin
A raise in gas prices? Ubsurd, IT'S NEEDED BECAUSE THE OIL COMPANIES WILL LOOSE MONEY!

Morans

Syke.

If this happens i gaurentee oil companies will report ANOTHER record quarter.
 

Blitzeclips

Proven Member
1,571
6
Aug 5, 2004
Bear, Delaware
I dont know about you guys, but I like my gasoline explosive. :D :D :D

The gas prices are ridiculous, I understand we are in short supply but at this point it's really time to find another energy source. The world only offers so much fossil fuels, which we are consuming at a staggering rate.

Eh, doesn't matter what anyone says, it won't effect the plans our gavernment and superiors for the future. :notgood:
 

Blitzeclips

Proven Member
1,571
6
Aug 5, 2004
Bear, Delaware
I dont know about you guys, but I like my gasoline explosive. :D :D :D

The gas prices are ridiculous, I understand we are in short supply but at this point it's really time to find another energy source. The world only offers so much fossil fuels, which we are consuming at a staggering rate.

Eh, doesn't matter what anyone says, it won't effect the plans our government and superiors have for the future. :notgood:

Sorry for the double post, i accidentally hit the button twice...
 

huafist

Proven Member
1,164
12
Sep 25, 2004
Morristown, Tennessee
drivemusicnow said:
... Yes, I am clairvoyant.. Or I'm just not an effing idiot.
I'll take door #2, Bob!

drivemusicnow said:
Do some math, at the rate that we send money over to china, and the past and predicted growth of China's economy, it probably won't even take the full 15 years.
Show me the math.
drivemusicnow said:
Stop trying to look smarter because you end up looking like an idiot. All of this has nothing to do with the original post and you should probably get back on topic, as political posts are not allowed.
It's funny how you think you know me well enough to say I'm "trying to look smarter". You were the one coming across with the elitist attitude. I was simply calling you on it.
Point out where I've gotten political?
 

jjsacidy

Proven Member
224
0
Jul 14, 2004
Saint Cloud, Minnesota
ha, i have seen less than this locked. the problem is there are too many damn people and the population keeps growing. a lot of these damn people are using something that is limited. that is just kind of a problem. no matter what this world is screwed. eventually there will be no room. there will be no clean water. there will be no clean air. no gas, no trees, no nothing. just a bunch of people killing each other wondering where they went wrong. i think the mayans predicted 2012 as doomsday. they were pretty good with math and calanders. maybe they'll be right. whether or not it's on 2012 doesn't matter; there will be an end to all of this sooner or later.
 
Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Boosted Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Fuel Injector Clinic Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications MyMitsubishiStore.com RixRacing RockAuto RTM Racing STM Tuned VR Speed Factory

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Vendor Updates

Latest Classifieds

Top