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Avoid OMNI MAP sensors - other suggestions?

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No, a MAP signal is absolutely not necessary to make the car run. Albeit, the car won't run well, but it will (rather should) run. The issue you're describing doesn't sound like a MAP sensor issue, or at least, not exclusively.

If I had to guess, your tune is likely...Well, how should I say this, all f***ed up. Post a log (doesn't even need to be while the car is running) and I can possibly confirm my assumption.
I would agree and guarantee my tune is all f***** up. Just got the car running and drove to the gas station when it cut out. attached is a quick log of the car attempting to run with the issue being present. A friend setup this for me to get the car running so please ANY help is very much appreciated!!
 

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  • log.2023.05.16-03.elg
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attached is a quick log of the car attempting to run with the issue being present
Wait, which MAP sensor are you using in this log?
In post #20 you say you've installed an AEM, but in the log input assignments it is still an Omni 4-bar. The log is dated May 16 so I guess it is from when you had the Omni in it.

In that log, the Omni voltage (RawOmni4Bar) is flat 0 volts for 98% of the time. It wakes up for half a second at 19.5 sec and wakes up for another half a second right at the end. So for sure there is something wrong with the Omni sensor or with how it is wired in or maybe with the ECU input (the MDP input).

During the time that the Omni is putting out 0 volts, your "InjOn" time is usually stuck right on 1.58 milliseconds which is barely enough fuel to even idle. That must be some kind of "limp" mode fuel.

Are you saying it does this same stuff with the AEM sensor installed? Is that also on the MDP input? (pin #73)
Are you sure the power wire to the sensor is 5 volts? Not 12 volts. Has to be 5 volts.
 
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Wait, which MAP sensor are you using in this log?
In post #20 you say you've installed an AEM, but in the log input assignments it is still an Omni 4-bar.
The log is dated May 16 so I guess it is from when you had the Omni in it.

In that log, the Omni voltage (RawOmni4Bar) is flat 0 volts for 98% of the time. It wakes up for half a second at 19.5 sec and wakes up for another half a second right at the end. So for sure there is something wrong with the Omni sensor or with how it is wired in or maybe with the ECU input (the MDP input).
During the time that the Omni is putting out 0 volts, your "InjOn" time is usually stuck right on 1.58 milliseconds which is barely enough fuel to even idle. That must be some kind of "limp" mode fuel.
Are you saying it does this same stuff with the AEM sensor installed? Is that also on the MDP input? (pin #73)
Are you sure the power wire to the sensor is 5 volts? Not 12 volts. Has to be 5 volts.
That log is from starting the car while issue is already happening with the Omni installed. This only happens after driving the car for a while or like I said I did a light 3500rpm anti lag for 2 seconds and replicated the issue where it studderd and died immediately after and that is when this log was taken. You can still start the engine however just pedal it like hell only to keep it alive for a couple seconds max.
I will attach another log shortly that shows the switch from running “fine” (driveable) with the map fluctuating as per normal then suddenly map flatlines and cars inoperable
 
here is the log. around the 300 sec. mark is where to goes from working to flatlining. the car is not moving and doubt any wires are loose as I checked them at both ends when starting having this issue
 

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  • log.2023.05.16-02.elg
    187.9 KB · Views: 26
here is the log. around the 300 sec. mark is where to goes from working to flatlining. the car is not moving and doubt any wires are loose as I checked them at both ends when starting having this issue
Oh it's another log from May 16 with the Omni sensor.
Do you have a log of it with the AEM sensor?

Maybe your 5 volts power is cutting in and out, to the sensor. Or the ground wire could be intermittent.
Where are you getting the 5 volts power from?
Have you checked it to make sure it's actually 5 volts?

If I knew what other sensors on a 2g use 5 volt power I would look to see if they are intermittent too.
 
Someone on the Link forum years ago was using these with success, and they're hella cheap.

MPXH6300AC6T1 (3 bar)
MPXH6400AC6T1 (4 bar)

Pin 2 - 5v
Pin 3 - sensor ground
Pin 4 - out put
 
Do you have a log of it with the AEM sensor?
Nope, like I said I just got wired in and running to check, will log tomorrow.
Power signal and ground is all oem wired from mdp sensor, I have not cut or altered most (especially any sensor wires) during my harness tuck). Voltage was checked before, and after issue was showing itself and has consistent 5v power.
 
This what? I’ve mentioned I checked voltage and it's 5v (4.97 exact) also while bad running condition is happening. MAP is on OEM MDP wiring with no cuts.

Only thing seems to happen is MAP looses signal. Has anything from my logs told you anything about my tune being way off?

Trying to get this figured today but need time to run car to full temp and get log on AEM.

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Your multimeter is freakin me out a little bit right now. Pretty sure you have the leads plugged into it wrong.

Also the display doesn't show any units. If you are measuring volts, the display should have a V or something proper to indicate units.
Now to it - The COM port should always be black. That's what reminds you to plug the black lead into the COM port, Always. You don't have anything plugged into the COM port. You have the black lead plugged into the V port, which is wrong. And you have the red lead plugged into the ADC port which is where you would put it to measure Amps, not Volts.

So in short, plug the black lead into the COM port. Plug the red lead into the V ohms mA port. If I could find a user manual for this meter I'd take a look at it for you to make sure what I'm saying is correct for this meter. But here is a screen shot from one of the videos that are around. Sorry it's kind of a crappy screen shot. He has the leads connected to the meter the way I'm saying to do it.

You have some nice looking stuff in your engine bay. I can understand massive frustration about this problem.

Oh I forgot to mention - hopefully your meter was not actually configured to measure amps there, because when it is, it has approximately 0 resistance to current. That means you'd blow fuses or circuits with it, hopefully just the 10 Amp fuse in the meter if there is one. So if you ever do really measure Amps, be really careful and be sure it's hooked up right!
Here's that screen shot:

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It’s only showing as -neg. volts vs how you said it need to be setup but same exact reading overall. Still at 5v. There is no issue I’m running the car now again and cannot replicate the issue with the new AEM miraculously

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It’s only showing as -neg. volts vs how you said it need to be setup but same exact reading overall. Still at 5v. There is no issue I’m running the car now again and cannot replicate the issue with the new AEM miraculously
Good deal!

Something I noticed in the 2nd log you posted (the 5.16-02): During the first ~200 seconds when it is running sort of ok, I notice that the LinWideband number is mostly around 11.7 which is way too rich considering it's close to warmed up (180 deg F) and it's sort of idling (no load anyway). Even during the time when it is in Closed Loop it is still about 11.7 and that is weird too. LinWideband (AFR) should be more like 14 there. So I'd look to see if it is still doing that now with the working MAP sensor.

AFR in the 11's is more like what you'd want at high load, heavy throttle.
Your AFR at idle, or cruise, or any light load after warmup, should be in the 14's.
 
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It’s only showing as -neg. volts vs how you said it need to be setup but same exact reading overall. Still at 5v. There is no issue I’m running the car now again and cannot replicate the issue with the new AEM miraculously

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If you want help and need it done correctly, I am affordable and local for your tuning needs.
 
If you want help and need it done correctly, I am affordable and local for your tuning needs.

And anyone could have told you the Omni sensors are the worst. Regardless of platform or style of sensor. Don’t let these others fool you and try to misdiagnose your car. It isn’t the car.
There it is THANK you! A simple Google search will prove that with our and many other platform forums. Plus for good ol’ Bob @ Omnipower to say he’ll send out a replacement immediately and never did really speaks to their word as a business and customer service.

@biglady112 I met you some years back when you had that 4G powered rat-rod truck and bought an ACT pressure plate from you so I know you’re reputable around here. And yes I appreciate getting straight to the point and not trying to force a diagnostic issue that is not there. 😂

I mentioned I checked voltage and how many post were about that?! Main reason for this post was to warn people more about the issues with Omni sensors and to ask for suggestions. I installed AEM, problem solved yet somehow people want to not believe the sensor was the issue. Here ya go I will send ANYONE the sensor (harness included) to try on their car and tell me how that goes. Meanwhile I will be hitting you up for some tuning asap @biglady112
 
And yes I appreciate getting straight to the point and not trying to force a diagnostic issue that is not there 😂 I mentioned I checked voltage and how many post were about that?!

Send me the sensor, I'll plug it into my car.

What's your issue with being asked to verify the input voltage? I'm trying to see in your log where the Omni sensor is reading incorrectly? Literally, every time you give the car a throttle input the sensor responds immediately. Your log clearly shows that, even at the 300 second mark where you say the issue is and the sensor is "dead". It's responding just as I would expect it to? Additionally, the raw voltage and sensor reading track the same, which is what I'd expect to see with how you have the sensor configured in ECMlink:
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Do you have a log under boost? That would be an easier way to tell if the sensor is responding accurately, as you can compare the reading to BoostEst and some other parameters and get a pretty good idea whether or not it's reading accurately.

Glad to hear the AEM sensor is working better for you, but the data from your log shows the Omni sensor is working just fine.

Regarding the rest of the tune:

Your TPS needs to be adjusted. Your throttle tip table in has significant adjustments to it. Why? Were you having issues? You are simulating the idle switch, yet there's only 1 brief moment in your log where the ECU even thinks the idle switch is activated: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/adjust-your-tps.509898/

Your fuel tables are extremely rich (target 9.6 to be exact). They need a good bit of work.

Your SD idle values are rich, your WBO2 reads lean, and your AirflowPerRev is on the higher end. None of that makes sense, so I'd start verifying basic idle tune things like base timing, global fuel and injector deadtime. Your table overall is improperly scaled and needs to be smoothed out significantly. Your values at peak VE indicate your global fuel is off, but your actual global fuel value is pretty close to where I'd expect it to be for 1650s. That leads me to believe there's another issue causing the car to lean out, that is, if in fact your AFRs track at WOT. I won't be able to tell that without another log of a WOT pull.

SD table from your car:
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SD table from my car:
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We're both on 1650 injectors. Not sure what your overall compression ratio is (I'm .20 over, your profile says you're .40), but I'd assume our setups are fairly similar regarding overall VE. I post my table above to demonstrate what you need to work toward in regards to the end-state of your overall VE table. My shit isn't perfect, and I'm not saying your shit should look exactly like mine, but my car runs flawlessly under all conditions, which is the end goal.

Going back to my initial assumption and my current assessment, your current tune needs some work and is likely the largest overall contributing factor to your car running poorly.

If you want help, you're going to have to put in the work on your end. Nobody here is trying to waste your time. It's not like anyone here is getting paid to post. If you want some legit advice from people here who know, here ya go: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/suggested-prerequisites-for-ecmlink-log-advice.511062/

If not, I'd seek out some of the reputable tuners in the community that support this site:
- https://rixracing.com/

Some others who come highly recommended in the community:
- https://www.sixsigmatuning.com/remote-tuning
- https://www.facebook.com/EfiSpecialties/

Sorry, but Biglady wouldn't make my list of reputable tuners in 1,000 years.

If you want help and need it done correctly, I am affordable and local for your tuning needs.

And anyone could have told you the Omni sensors are the worst. Regardless of platform or style of sensor. Don’t let these others fool you and try to misdiagnose your car. It isn’t the car.

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where you offered any form of diagnosis based on anything but your personal opinion? Also missed the part where the OP was "fooled", or received anything but actionable feedback. If answering questions is too much to ask, then I'd guess he's not going to get much help here, eh? Would you like to provide some tuning advice based on some piece of factual information you gleaned from the log, or possible anything else that's tangible?
 
Send me the sensor, I'll plug it into my car.

What's your issue with being asked to verify the input voltage? I'm trying to see in your log where the Omni sensor is reading incorrectly? Literally, every time you give the car a throttle input the sensor responds immediately. Your log clearly shows that, even at the 300 second mark where you say the issue is and the sensor is "dead". It's responding just as I would expect it to? Additionally, the raw voltage and sensor reading track the same, which is what I'd expect to see with how you have the sensor configured in ECMlink:
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Do you have a log under boost? That would be an easier way to tell if the sensor is responding accurately, as you can compare the reading to BoostEst and some other parameters and get a pretty good idea whether or not it's reading accurately.

Glad to hear the AEM sensor is working better for you, but the data from your log shows the Omni sensor is working just fine.

Regarding the rest of the tune:

Your TPS needs to be adjusted. Your throttle tip table in has significant adjustments to it. Why? Were you having issues? You are simulating the idle switch, yet there's only 1 brief moment in your log where the ECU even thinks the idle switch is activated: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/adjust-your-tps.509898/

Your fuel tables are extremely rich (target 9.6 to be exact). They need a good bit of work.

Your SD idle values are rich, your WBO2 reads lean, and your AirflowPerRev is on the higher end. None of that makes sense, so I'd start verifying basic idle tune things like base timing, global fuel and injector deadtime. Your table overall is improperly scaled and needs to be smoothed out significantly. Your values at peak VE indicate your global fuel is off, but your actual global fuel value is pretty close to where I'd expect it to be for 1650s. That leads me to believe there's another issue causing the car to lean out, that is, if in fact your AFRs track at WOT. I won't be able to tell that without another log of a WOT pull.

SD table from your car:
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SD table from my car:
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We're both on 1650 injectors. Not sure what your overall compression ratio is (I'm .20 over, your profile says you're .40), but I'd assume our setups are fairly similar regarding overall VE. I post my table above to demonstrate what you need to work toward in regards to the end-state of your overall VE table. My shit isn't perfect, and I'm not saying your shit should look exactly like mine, but my car runs flawlessly under all conditions, which is the end goal.

Going back to my initial assumption and my current assessment, your current tune needs some work and is likely the largest overall contributing factor to your car running poorly.

If you want help, you're going to have to put in the work on your end. Nobody here is trying to waste your time. It's not like anyone here is getting paid to post. If you want some legit advice from people here who know, here ya go: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/suggested-prerequisites-for-ecmlink-log-advice.511062/

If not, I'd seek out some of the reputable tuners in the community that support this site:
- https://rixracing.com/

Some others who come highly recommended in the community:
- https://www.sixsigmatuning.com/remote-tuning
- https://www.facebook.com/EfiSpecialties/

Sorry, but Biglady wouldn't make my list of reputable tuners in 1,000 years.



I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where you offered any form of diagnosis based on anything but your personal opinion? Also missed the part where the OP was "fooled", or received anything but actionable feedback. If answering questions is too much to ask, then I'd guess he's not going to get much help here, eh? Would you like to provide some tuning advice based on some piece of factual information you gleaned from the log, or possible anything else that's tangible?
You clearly are still a f***ing *****. And yet, through the power of the internet you think you have an actual opinion of someone you have never met, let alone even seen a picture of.

I have been tuning since 1999 professionally. PROFESSIONALLY. Easily 600-700 cars across multiple platforms.

FuelTech
Haltech
All the AEM’s
HPTuners
DiabloSport
Hondata
Megasquirt
Chrome
Dsmlink

And so on and so on. You can continue to troll someone you have never met. I’ll keep being f***ing awesome and turn everything into gold that I touch.

I stand by my statement as I have ACTUAL real world experience. Zero coincidence that he went with a proper transducer and the car reacted instantly, right?
 
Zero coincidence that he went with a proper transducer and the car reacted instantly, right?
Wait, it did? How do you know that information? The Omni shown in the log posted by the OP was also "reacting instantly", was it not?

I'm not trolling anyone. Everything I said was based on facts, or opinions given based on experience derived from facts. Just because you consider yourself a professional tuner doesn't mean you are one.

I also stand by my statement. I listed ACTUAL professional tuners (by their reputation, not some self acclaimed accolades) above.
 
What makes someone a professional tuner?
Obviously I have no clue as after 24 years, I still haven’t earned my stripes apparently.

I guess you have to run a tax paying business in a brick building with a website and social media to be the real deal. Word of mouth isn’t worth shit if you aren’t on the internet somewhere.
 
What makes someone a professional tuner?
Opinions on that would probably vary. That said, being professional (in general) doesn't look like anything @biglady112 posted.

The tuners I mentioned above have overwhelming support from the community, and have established that over years of "professional" work and interactions. If you can find a single place where any of them has said something along these lines, I'll retract my recommendations.
I’ll keep being f***ing awesome and turn everything into gold that I touch.
 
Opinions on that would probably vary. That said, being professional (in general) doesn't look like anything @biglady112 posted.

The tuners I mentioned above have overwhelming support from the community, and have established that over years of "professional" work and interactions. If you can find a single place where any of them has said something along these lines, I'll retract my recommendations.
I served in the same branch you did. I also fought in a war you did not. I also do this on the side and represent no one but, myself. So given my life experiences and views, I will continue to do as I please and carry myself as I see fit. Especially when it comes to retards on the internet. I have certainly earned everything I have. I need zero approval in life. Just look at the last few people I have helped and what they have posted. The cars wouldn’t make the power and stay together if I was as incompetent as you like to have others believe. I don’t need or ask for kudos. If someone wants to be retarded, I will bring out all the Down syndrome I possess .

I also don’t rely or have ties to the community. I just so happened to have played with the 4G63 more than most others. Make no mistake, I can turn a wrench and push a button regardless of what the badge says on the back.

You can keep your opinion until the day you die of me. It clearly makes you feel better. I will continue to piss automotive excellence and keep the hot rod hobby alive. All of my toys are 60-70 years old now. 90’s Japanese tuners cars have left my interest years ago.

If I see something I know the clear answer to, I will continue to share factual based information. I don’t go around picking fights. I merely react.

Maybe you should ask the owner of this website who helped him both wrench on and tune his car free of charge and asked for nothing in return when he and his family lived on Colorado. Not to mention we welcomed each other and their families into the other’s homes for plenty of non-automotive related activities. Seemed to be good enough for him.
 
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I served in the same branch you did. I also fought in a war you did not. I also do this on the side and represent no blah blah blah blah
Like usual, cool story.

Imagine what it would be like if you could post a normal helpful response without any of the BS?

Try this: Look at the log the OP posted, then actually apply all the vast amounts of knowledge you allegedly possess to provide feedback in a public forum so that both the OP, and literally anyone in the world can benefit? I'd love to see you do that just one single time.
 
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