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Automotive technicians be a dying breed in the future

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You guys are talking about new highend cars,you have to remeber the cars on the road today will need wreching for years to come.I wrench for a living and pulling codes is mabye 5% of what i do,most codes only point you in the right direction anyway there will always be a need for a mind to figure it out and fix it.i graduated arizona automotive institute didnt get my ase though,work in a brake masters and the pays not great,but good anough to pay bills and still through parts at the DSM:thumb:
 
A) Morphius, you're making all engineers look bad by your atrocious spelling. Seriously, irregardless??? What the hell. Also, while there is always a "rivalry" between techs and engineers, both sides need each other. Try designing only parts/systems that even a monkey could fix. i've had to do it, it is not easy, nor enjoyable. You, as an engineer, rely on their ability to analyze systems effectively and efficiently.

B) You can justify things lots of different ways, but in the end there is no "tech" out there earning 30$ an hour right out of school. That IS base pay for an engineer. Now, Are there techs that prove to be worth upwards of $80k a year? Of course. How many of them actually like what they do everyday. The one thing I've seen more often than anything else is people who get their degree in auto tech, and then within 3 years go back to school to do something different because they wake up hating themselves everyday. And if you had a car as a hobby, you can forget that as well.

C) Bring UAW into this discussion is worthless, and for that reason I will not discuss it

D) I really hate the people who pretend engineering and automotive technicians are the same thing. They are not even close, and I go to an automotive engineering school. If any of you techs think that you can do the math, design work, FMEA, or analysis that is everyday in most engineers jobs, let me know. I hold the utmost respect of efficient techs, but they understand that they can't do what I can do, and I understand that I am not nearly as capable as they are doing certain tasks.

E) I'm not sure if morphius is talking about "Alison" transmissions versus GM transmissions, but either way most of them are terrible. I know, I work for a german transmission manufacturer that competes against Alison, and other than their trans' being cheap, they don't have much going for them.
 
A) Morphius, you're making all engineers look bad by your atrocious spelling. Seriously, irregardless??? What the hell. Also, while there is always a "rivalry" between techs and engineers, both sides need each other. Try designing only parts/systems that even a monkey could fix. i've had to do it, it is not easy, nor enjoyable. You, as an engineer, rely on their ability to analyze systems effectively and efficiently.

Frankly, people need to lighten up. I didn't come on here to win a spelling bee. I'm sitting here doing more than one thing at a time and simply made a mistake. BFD. You've all seen those that the rule was made for. I'm not one of them. I could find misspelling, bad grammar and poor punctuation on ANYONE here. I'm sure someone will again, point out another word I misspelled in this post. Sweet. :thumb:

Personally, I never said you don't need techs. I work with them everyday. I've done my fair share of design work. I agree, it can be difficult.


B) You can justify things lots of different ways, but in the end there is no "tech" out there earning 30$ an hour right out of school. That IS base pay for an engineer. Now, Are there techs that prove to be worth upwards of $80k a year? Of course. How many of them actually like what they do everyday. The one thing I've seen more often than anything else is people who get their degree in auto tech, and then within 3 years go back to school to do something different because they wake up hating themselves everyday. And if you had a car as a hobby, you can forget that as well.

Well, my comparison of a tech making as much as an engineer, stems from the growing number of contract positions. Engineers starting out, avg $19/hr here in motown. So, you can see where I'm coming from. It may not be that way for long, the engineers payrate will likely rise faster. But you see my point.


C) Bring UAW into this discussion is worthless, and for that reason I will not discuss it.

My point with that was less schooling background, yet equal or more pay than a tech. Does the tech think it's justified?

Becoming a tech is not a shortcut to making big money.


D) I really hate the people who pretend engineering and automotive technicians are the same thing. They are not even close, and I go to an automotive engineering school. If any of you techs think that you can do the math, design work, FMEA, or analysis that is everyday in most engineers jobs, let me know. I hold the utmost respect of efficient techs, but they understand that they can't do what I can do, and I understand that I am not nearly as capable as they are doing certain tasks.

I agree 100%.


E) I'm not sure if morphius is talking about "Alison" transmissions versus GM transmissions, but either way most of them are terrible. I know, I work for a german transmission manufacturer that competes against Alison, and other than their trans' being cheap, they don't have much going for them.

I can't speak for Allison because it's another division. But I can for Hydramatic. All I have to say is, if it was crap, then there wouldn't be other auto companies lining up at the door to purchase the product.
 
Way to go. Did I ever complain about UAW assembly line workers, or anyone else making more money than I do? Hmm.... let me think. Hmmm..... oh, wow. Guess what? I never did complain. So what if someone who hasn't invested in how much of whatever as I have makes more than I do. Good for him. It seems like you're the one complaining about your pay compared to others.

Please explain this statement:
He has no idea of how much a modern tech needs to invest in schooling, time, tools, etc., not to mention the physical nature of the job, and also why a dealership charges what they charge.

Justification statement for higher pay? You're right in the aspect, you never made a statement that 'I don't make enough', but you did in regards that the 'overall investment' is justification. Apparently you care and it bothers you I made my statement.

Yes, I didn't make crap years back, but was I on here complaining anywhere else other than this thread? No. My degree and field puts me in the upper 25% of engineering in regards to pay. I just didn't graduate from a big name school, so the trail to my goal was longer and starting out, I had to work harder.


The thread was about if techs were going to be needed in the future or not, not whether it was fair or not that they get paid what they do compared to other fields. You're the one that came along and started crying and whining that although you're an engineer, you don't get paid what you think you should and that techs shouldn't make over $30 per hour.

I do and have been paid what I should, for a while now.


And yes, I tend to be anal when it comes to grammar and spelling, and I take pride in it, along with my attention to detail in everything I do.

Good for you. Please be anal over your own posts, not others. You're not a mod..... I mean... your not a mode.


It's perspective. Dozed off in class a little too much? Do yourself a favor and invest in a dictionary, please.

I really don't care.


I'm glad you put things in perspective for yourself to see. Again, I'm not the one pissing and moaning about my pay. You are.

Reread the thread. I made my statement regarding what I feel should be the high end of tech pay, not that I don't make enough. Posts there after were statements about how I was wrong and the justification of why techs should make that much and more.

Including yours:

He has no idea of how much a modern tech needs to invest in schooling, time, tools, etc., not to mention the physical nature of the job, and also why a dealership charges what they charge.

which in the context of the prior threads and yours, was why a high/higher payrate is justified. I made the statement about not having made much my first years to get accross the point of a lack of an elitest attitude, which didn't work.
 
Justification statement for higher pay? You're right in the aspect, you never made a statement that 'I don't make enough', but you did in regards that the 'overall investment' is justification. Apparently you care and it bothers you I made my statement.

Uhhh... no, it wasn't a justification statement. Sorry to disappoint you. I'm not complaining that I don't make enough, so no, I don't care. Therefore, your statement doesn't bother me in the least. Basically, that whole paragragh of yours there made no sense, as it was all conjecture on your part.


Why are you so bothered by what others get paid? Obviously, they get paid what they do for a reason, and such is the case with any field in any industry you care to discuss. Who are you to question the industry? So really, your opinion is actually irrelevant.

I was wrong. I gave you too much credit. You really aren't a very bright individual after all. For the last time, I'm not the one with an issue regarding my pay or anyone else's, for that matter. You are. So all your responses to me are really moot.

And here's a tip. Irregardless is not a word.
 
Uhhh... no, it wasn't a justification statement. Sorry to disappoint you. I'm not complaining that I don't make enough, so no, I don't care. Therefore, your statement doesn't bother me in the least. Basically, that whole paragragh of yours there made no sense, as it was all conjecture on your part.


Why are you so bothered by what others get paid? Obviously, they get paid what they do for a reason, and such is the case with any field in any industry you care to discuss. Who are you to question the industry? So really, your opinion is actually irrelevant.

I was wrong. I gave you too much credit. You really aren't a very bright individual after all. For the last time, I'm not the one with an issue regarding my pay or anyone else's, for that matter. You are. So all your responses to me are really moot.

And here's a tip. Irregardless is not a word.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irregardless

Sorry if spell check didn't find it for you.
 
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irregardless

Sorry if spell check didn't find it for you.

Sorry if you didn't read what you searched for.



ir·re·gard·less (ĭr'ĭ-gärd'lĭs) Pronunciation Key
adv. Nonstandard
Regardless.


[Probably blend of irrespective and regardless.]


Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.




irregardless

an erroneous word that, etymologically, means the exact opposite of what it is used to express, attested in non-standard writing from 1912, probably a blend of irrespective and regardless. Perhaps inspired by the double negative used as an emphatic.


You're really hopeless. Even with a dictionary, you still manage to be wrong.
 
Sorry if you didn't read what you searched for.



ir·re·gard·less (ĭr'ĭ-gärd'lĭs) Pronunciation Key
adv. Nonstandard
Regardless.


[Probably blend of irrespective and regardless.]


Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.




irregardless

an erroneous word that, etymologically, means the exact opposite of what it is used to express, attested in non-standard writing from 1912, probably a blend of irrespective and regardless. Perhaps inspired by the double negative used as an emphatic.


You're really hopeless. Even with a dictionary, you still manage to be wrong.


Here's another:

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/irregardless
 
Mercedes Benz already has diagnostic modules that run test and find problems in other modules in the vehicle. Some of the new S classes have over 70 modules, but the irony is when these cars break down it takes our techs longer to diagnose the problem then the older vehicles. Unlike the older cars, techs now have to be computer savy for the new ones, which means taking more and more classes. And when the check engine light comes on the people that can afford these cars don't want to mess with them, they just want them fixed.

As for our labor we are 95/hour for MB and Cadillac, 85/hour for GM Volvo and Nissan. Techs make from 30k - 85k per year. We spend a lot of time and money training our techs so they are all certified and up-to-date on what they need to know to fix and understand the new vehicle systems. We fly techs to Chicago, Las Vegas, and Texas to learn from the Manufactures directly on the new vehicles coming out. Not to mention we spend thousands of dollars on new tools every year. That's why the labor rates are what they are and the techs make what they do.

I agree with a lot of the other guys, work for a dealer and not a small garage. And if someone says there's not going to be a need for techs in the future, they don't know what they're talking about.

My 2 Cents.

:rocks: Excatley, just wait till GM starts using the CAN-BUS systems they use on Opels/Saabs etc over here in the States(Saturn is getting some Opel models in the future-hope they bring all the turbo models too) .. id like to see the back yard mechs take a shot at it.. im proud of my trade!

The new systems are complex,as a faliure in one system may affect many others,so the root of the problem may be hard to pinpoint upon the first glance.
 

Glad to see you're getting around to using a dictionary.

Oh gee, look what I found from your link.



Main Entry: ir·re·gard·less

The most frequently repeated remark about it is that "there is no such word." There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.



For your information, although the word is used, it's not a proper word, as it's a double negative.
 
I was just going to let this go, but why should I, when everyone else is so quick to get on their high horse.

For your information, although the word is used, it's not a proper word, as it's a double negative.


Nice backstep from this:

And here's a tip. Irregardless is not a word.


I really don't care it's not a well used, non-standard, or widely accepted word. Sure, it may be a double negative and I could have chosen better, but guess what? It's still a word.

As for sources, both stated to the fact it was a word. Again, yes they said it was non-standard, not widely used or accepted and a double negative. So, I read it. Apparently you didn't.
 
As for our labor we are 95/hour for MB and Cadillac, 85/hour for GM Volvo and Nissan. Techs make from 30k - 85k per year. We spend a lot of time and money training our techs so they are all certified and up-to-date on what they need to know to fix and understand the new vehicle systems. We fly techs to Chicago, Las Vegas, and Texas to learn from the Manufactures directly on the new vehicles coming out. Not to mention we spend thousands of dollars on new tools every year. That's why the labor rates are what they are and the techs make what they do.

I still don't think the 'shop tools' are justification for high labor rates. One tech for one day, at a shop rate of 10 over payrate, can pay for more than one tool. As you know, '8 hours' pay could be 6 hours worth of work, right? Job is billed by OEM guidelines. You might bill .75 hours for changing plugs, but it might only take you .25 hours. So, in any one day, you are logging more than 8 hours of billable work. 10 techs in a shop can pay for the specialty tools real quick. Pick any OEM, there are let's say 10 product lines at any particular dealer. That product line will be the same for 4-10 years. The tools bought up front won't change over that period. At least the hand tools typically. On occasions, there are changes that force a new hand tool or diagnostic tool. So, my point is, the shop rate is still grossly high.

Also, you future 'techs' need to realize that 95% of you will likely be working more than 40hours to pull down more than 60K (which equates to approx. $30/hr).
 
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