Advice on no-start

[Gstclipse69]

Ok, here is the scenario. The car died on the way to class a couple weeks ago. I pinpointed the problem to the car not getting fuel. I tested the fuel pump relay and it tested good. I checked the hot wire going into the top of the fuel pump harness on top of the assembly and it was getting power. I pulled the fuel pump out and it was working too. I then noticed the connector on the bottom of the fuel pump assembly that goes to the fuel pump itself was burnt up looking. So I got a replacement fuel pump assembly and now I can cut the fuel pump on with link. So that is working.

Now, I also have had an intermittent no start issue, that I kind of thought was the starter. So I get the fuel pump working and try to start the car and the starter isnt turning over. Ok, so I have a spare starter laying around and I swap it in. So now with the replacement starter in I go to hook the positive battery cable back up and I get a nasty spark, and the starter just starts spinning. I checked all of the connections, the terminals on the back of the starter are not touching each other. The ground is hooked back up to the starter bolt. I dont see any obstructions to the wire anywhere. So now Im just stumped as the where to go from here.
I messed around with the starter connections some to make sure they were right, and I tried to connect the positive terminal again and it still makes a nasty spark/arc. What could be causing this? Or why would the starter just all of a sudden turn on by itself? Should I be looking at the ignition switch, starter relay, or looking for a short in a wire somewhere or what, or is there something up with the starter? If someone could point me in the right direction that would be great.

 

[Gstclipse69]

Ok, I pulled out the starter relay and tested it; it seemed fine to me. I then tried to connect the pos terminal with the relay out of the car and the same thing occurred. I sparked a good bit and after a couple seconds the starter started to spin. So, then I just unhooked the starter all together and connected the terminal. Now it just had a small spark like normal. So I guess something is up with THIS starter too. Im just going to take it to a shop around town and get them to rebuild it.
Its odd both these starters are bad, and the starter on my 1g went out last week too

 

[Gstclipse69]

Ok, update to the thread. I got the starter rebuilt by a local shop. I hooked everything back up and just like before with the other starter, I go to start it and it doesnt do anything. Once the key moves from on to start, everything just dies. All the lights, everything. If I take the key out and put it back in, the dash lights will light up very dimly, and the same thing will occur.

As of now, I have pulled out all the wiring going to the starter. The hot line from the battery is unmolested as is the ground wire from the battery. I tested the voltage across the two wires, and its steady at like 12.5 volts. So the power is there. I tested the other small wire that goes on top of the starter and its getting power. I hooked a test light up to it while cranking and it brightly cuts on. So if that wire is getting power, I am assuming the starter relay is working. And im assuming now that I have tested and gone over all the wiring to the starter that it is all good. And I just had the starter rebuilt. Im going to test it tomorrow after work, but I am also assuming that they tested it before they gave it back to me.

So, the only other thing that Im going to check its the clutch cut wire. I bypassed it before so that I wouldnt have to press the clutch in while starting, so Im going to check that out tomorrow as well when it put it all back together again. Im going to search around the site some for info about the stock security system to see if that could be a culprit. After all that I've checked, im starting to doubt its something to do with the starter. If anyone has any other ideas, chime in. Thanks

 

[talonalex92]

The starter has 2 wires. The large one is a constant 12v source. It should have this all the time. The smaller should see 12v when the key is in the start position. There is no ground, as the starter is grounded through the block.

And if you have voltage present at the correct times, the clutch switch is functioning.

 

[Gstclipse69]

When I was referring to the ground wire, I was referring to the ground wire on the starter mounting bolt (on the tranny side) And if the clutch switch is functioning, then that rules something else out. Thanks for the input.

 

[Gstclipse69]

Another update. I pulled out the starter to test it myself by the manual. The pinion moves out when its told, and moves in when its told. The motor also spins freely. IE it runs. So the starter is good. I bolted it back in the car and hooked everything up. I started it up and the starter spun as it should and the engine was turning over. I just tried it for a second to see if it would work, because I still had the exhaust and the intake off. I decided to try it a couple more times before bolting everything back up. So I tried it again and NOTHING Same thing, once the key goes to start everything dies, dash lights, radio everything.

I had read in a couple dead end posts about having a bad ground could cause weird things. I recently dropped the battery in the engine bay down to accomodate a smim and I wasnt feeling great about the ground. So I went and got a new ground cable that I installed from the battery to the original stock ground location on the firewall, and put a new cable from the battery to the starter mounting bolt. Tried that and NOTHING. Same thing. Click, dead.

Starting to run out of options. Any ideas, leads welcome. Thanks

 

[Gstclipse69]

Final update: Talked to a local mechanic today. After explaining everything, his suggestion was to check the battery. I know the battery was putting out 12.5 volts while sitting. His suggested that the battery could not put out proper voltage while under a load. Anyway I put the battery from the 1g in there and it started right up. So I took it to advance and they checked it on there machine said it was reading low but needed to be charged. Well I already charged it like 3 times so I went ahead and got a new one. Put her in its firing up just fine. I just had never had this scenario with just the battery being low. My old battery in the 1g started to go bad and it would crank, just very slowly and got worse and worse. This just wouldn't crank at all and would shut everything else off until you unhooked the battery. And showed 12.5 volts when i put a multimeter on it. Weird to me, but at least its back on the road.

 

[lil corb]

Glad you got it resolved. Another scenario you can put in the back of your mind. Like all of mine that I have.