Advice on MachineShop Work

[BGizzlePatrick]

Hi guys,
I just got done stripping my 1g 63 down to the shortblock. The previous owner put about 170k miles on it and the only thing wrong with it was that the crank bearings are chewed up.
He will help me put the motor togeter and all but he is on vacation for 3 weeks and i want to try to get the shortblock ready to go by the time he gets here.
I have done alot of research and i have found a good and respectable Machine Shop close by and know that they have experience working on DSM's. Now i have never before rebuild a engine before and dont really know what to tell them.
I bought a stroker kit and basically want them to hone the cylinders, deck the surface (whatever a machine shop does to rebuild a shortblock) and then they need to fit the 64 crank into the block and bore the cylinders to fit the new pistons in it.
I have heard people get more custom work done like putting special kinds of coatings on the crank and stuff like that. I know alot of you guys have done more work on these engines than i will propably ever do so please let me know anything i need to look out for in order to get a really good rebuild.
The crank is a factory new crank and i have read that its possible to get the crank grinded and that its possible to reduce its weight. Just wondering if thats really needed if i would shoot for about 400 to 500 hp

 

[Hammer_Gaidin]

Basically the way any machinist i deal with just sees it as a cast iron block. They usually dont care what it is. I wouldn't worry about grinding the crank. usually that is something that one does when there is scoring on the crank, not to lighten. Usually it is a good idea to give the shop the pistons, rings, and crank so that they can check clearances on everything. My advice, dont worry about it too much, most shops know what they are doing...even if u dont. Good like.

 

[BGizzlePatrick]

Ok, I thought I am propably too worried about it but i really don't want to spend all my money on the machine work and all the parts and later on find out i didnt do this or that to this or that part during this step of getting the bottom end ready.
I just saw this website on carotica where this guy documented his project of putting in a 64 in his 2g and it seems that his machine shop is doing a good job so since i live right here i will give them a call tomorrow.
If anyone has gone through a machine shop and got this kinda work done maybe you guys could let me know how much ya'll spend on just the machining part?
Also when Im down there is it worth to pay lets say like 500 extra to have them put the shortblock together?

 

[Hammer_Gaidin]

As long as u have a tourque wrench, some time, and a service manual, i'd save the money and do it yourself. it's not really that difficult.

 

[Burnett03]

As long as u have a tourque wrench, some time, and a service manual, i'd save the money and do it yourself. it's not really that difficult.

true but the block still has to be bored/honed and machined to fit the crank/rods for the stroker. once it is all done the owner could put it together himself but why not just have the machine shop do it?

ps- I honed my own block and put it together on my own, and no its not that hard if you take your time and check clearances.

 

[BGizzlePatrick]

Oh yeah i have all the time in the world. My 2g is my daily driver so until i actually take the block out and do the actual swap i have alot of time
I think it would be easier for them to put it together however I just want to do it myself so i know how it works you know?
I quess it depends on how much they will charge to put it together. I dont have a torque wrench yet but I know you can get them all over the place and i have about 1k saved up to start buying tools that i will need ;-)
I have the repair manual that you can buy at autozone and used it to replace my headgasket and put in a new clutch. I didnt look into it much further but it also tells you about putting the rods pistons and crank and all that into the block?

 

[BGizzlePatrick]

when you did your own block was it a regular rebuild or did you go with the 2.3 as well? I mean i have a dremel tool and a bunch of drill and grind heads for it but i didnt think it was strong enough to do stuff like that or else i would have already started porting the intake or exhaust manifold

 

[anconover]

dremmel wont do shit, and keep it away from the block...

If you have little engine knowledge which it seems, have the machine shop assemble it for the 200$ or w/e they will charge. Youll probly end up spending the same amount they charge in the proper tools.

You will need the deck surface checked, not necessarily decked. You will need the bores, bored to match each piston (assign 1 to each cylinder). They will then have to hone the cylinders to get the correct wall clearances etc. Have the crank checked, and only micropolished if possible. Dont wanna cut it unless u really have to. Also have the mains checked and align honed if needed, especially if using ARP hardware.

Honestly, if you dont have a torque plate and arent sure what procedures you need done, i wouldnt go assembling a motor. Not only will you spend as much on tools, but you will need to be able to properly set ring gap, re-check the piston to wall clearances cuz u cant just trust the machine shop, align thrust bearing and check bearing clearances etc.

Not rocket science of coarse, but..

 

[Hammer_Gaidin]

Not rocket science of coarse, but..

I would agree 100%. Look and see how much they want to assemble it. If they want a few hundred dollars I'd consider it, since you'd have to spend the time on finding the tools, and the money. My only beef with having machine shops do it is they always take longer than they tell ya. I took a block in that would take 4 days to do. 3weeks later it was done. That seems to be how it is everytime.

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

Theres a lot of things that have to be done which requires the shop to assemble the engine. Every shop that I have been to says that they assemble the bottom end to balance the rotating assembly. I'd rather see you take it to a shop, they probably know a few things about what to do that you may not (not insulting your knowledge..the same applies to me also). The mains need to be align-honed, the block needs to be torque plate honed/bored. Anybody who says a torque plate is NOT necessary.... ... thats all I have to say. Depending on the type of gasket you are going to use (MLS HG for me) you need to have your head milled to a mirror finish and deck the block so its smooth, like a baby's ass...

 

[BGizzlePatrick]

Yeah i think you are right I propably will let them put it all together i think i will get my fair share of taking the block appart and repairing this as i go along the road towards my goal hp !

 

[BGizzlePatrick]

Ok guys i have one more for ya'll:
I just got an email from the website i ordered the stroker kit from and they are having problems and say that the shipping will be delayed 2 maybe 3 weeks. So i got my money back for now and have to wait......
I want to see how much it would be to just put my own setup together so let me know if im missing anything here:
-Wiesco Pistons (K571M86 for 86.00mm bore) with compression ratio of 8.8:1 (Im propably going to go with a 60trim or equal turbo making close to 20-25psi so that comp ratio should be fine or should i take diff ratio?)
-Either Eagle (CRS5900MA3D) or Scat (2-5906-1771-1115-827) rods
- Last but not least comes the 4g64 crank with bearings (most come with clevite or ACL bearings)
As far as i can tell by looking at the stroker kits from sbr thats all there is too it and should be good for my 400 - 500hp goal i believe.

 

[BGizzlePatrick]

I can't be the only one that had that question before.....

 

[anconover]

http://carshop.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/59245/CS23KIT

6-bolt stroker kit they can do the machine work and assemble it as well. cheaper than most places, and theyve done alot of 4g63's.

 

[BGizzlePatrick]

Yeah I talked to someone from those guys before and they seemed really nice. I was going to get some of the parts for my stroker from them but i heard many bad things from people buying complete "cheap" stroker kits so I looked at some that kost more money thinking they would have better components in them. I only need internals that can handle 400hp for now and maybe someday (depending on how fast my skills will advance) maybe 500 to 600 hp. So i looked and found all those parts i listed above all together for about 1400 shipped. This way at least i know im getting the parts i need and am not beeing forced to do some shortcuts in order to make it affordable.
Besides, my wife would more likely let me buy something for 400 here and there in a couple of months rather then going out and spending 2000 or 3000 at once

 

[anconover]

more expensive is anything but better. i know a few ppl who had carshop do there stroker kits. And if your worried about quality... they tell you exactly what you are getting, and have an in-house machine shop.

 

[Defiant]

I can't be the only one that had that question before.....

You're not the only one to get a thread closed for bumping, either. But the lessons seem slow in the learning.