A lot of Knock, high engine temps, wideband going crazy, running rich???

[EagleTalonTim]

Basically as the title states, I am running rich at idle according to the AEM Wideband (13.2 - 14.2), and the knock gauge (old boost gauge on dash) is maxing out under 1 to 3 psi boost. If I am driving at a steady speed say 55 mph and accelerate just enough to get 1 to 3 psi, the engine completely changes tone like it is bogging down, and my knock gauge maxes out. If I left of the gas quickly and get back into within 1 to 2 seconds, the knock usually goes away. I have checked for boost leaks and located 2 which have been fixed around 1k miles ago. No more exist now. The knock sensor is about 1 year old from Autozone.

Also to add to the problems.... my engine is constantly running hot when the temp outside is above 60 degrees. I have to turn my heater on to cool it down which sucks! The radiator, hoses, radiator cap, water pump, and thermostat are all brand new. I got the water pump from Orielly. After a 30 minute drive or more without getting into boost, I can pop the hood and the manifold right where it goes into the turbo will be glowing red hot. I have had this problem since I put the turbo on which was a brand new Evo 16G from STM which was maybe over a year ago. I am running a 2g manifold if that helps any. Under acceleration above 5psi boost, I smell antifreeze within a few seconds. No leaks have been found yet. Brand new headgasket and ARP head studs torqued at 90ft lbs using the correct lubrication. They have been re-torqued as well.

Last but not least, my AEM wideband O2 is going crazy!!! Sitting at idle, it bounces between 13.2 to 14.2. When driving down the road at 55 under normal acceleration, it bounces between 13.8 to -.-- over and over every second. Under boost, it reads 10.8 to 11.1.

Any feedback on any of the above problems is appreciated! My first thoughts is the turbo has gone bad already which is causing all these problems or my 560cc injectors are not flowing correctly.

 

[Arthris]

I have the same thing happen to me all the time as well. Check ## oil level. Mine only does it when level is low but not too low to loose pressure just enough to lose volume and cause lifter tick wich trips my sensor. As for bouncing AFR check fuel pressure reg. maybe change the filter

 

[Tyeler18]

What are you using to compensate for those injectors?

 

[Arthris]

Im pretty sure hes got a custom Eprom chip

 

[EagleTalonTim]

Oil is 1/4 quart low which is normal since I have oil that pushes out the dipstick tube when under heavy boost. I am using DSMChips Eprom ECU with a tune for 10.5 using 93 Oct which is what I always run in my car. No ethanol in my area yet

 

[Arthris]

Thought so. Didnt know if it was DSMchip or keydiver. Hmm Its what mine does too. Sometimes it does it sometimes not. Id double check ## KS again. Why havnt you got to a Moates Ostrich 2.0? Ive got a DSMChip erom as well. that I burned and modded for my own use. Now I run SD. I hate it at times but love it also. Anyway. Do you have A way of logging?

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I do have a palm datalogger somewhere. the internal battery died and it lost all programs and memory so I have to set it all back up again. I was thinking of going with the ostrich or with ecmlink, but without the engine running correctly like the antifreeze smell in boost and it overheating, I don't want to spend any extra money at the moment till those are fixed if I ever figure it out. I am really thinking it is the turbo though. That was the only thing I changed closed to the time it started overheating. I would like to go with bigger injectors too since the 560's are pretty old and I bought them used.

 

[turboglenn]

have you done compression and leak down tests yet? sounds to me like a cracked head or something like a leaking head gasket. definitely not a tuning issue, that's a "hard part" problem if i've ever heard one before.

I know you got a new HG and what not but there's got to be a crack in something to be constantly running that hot

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I did a compression test after I put the headgasket on which was 135, 130, 130, 135. The rings are not so good which I should have replaced when I did the headgasket but it was cold as crap outside. Why would I smell antifreeze inside the car when the exhaust is coming out the back and there are no visible areas where antifreeze has been leaking or spraying from? This problem has been going on for the past year so I am sure there would be some sort of indication of where the antifreeze would be going. Is there a dye I could safely use to locate the leak if there is one? One thing I noticed after I put the turbo on was I could start the car when the engine was cold, let it run for 30 seconds, turn it off, and feel the upper radiator hose would be already pressurized. I would not expect a turbo that was brand new in the box from STM to have any problems with it. I continued to drive with it to see if anything would eventually change. Here is it a year later and nothing has changed.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I have also noticed that when under about 60% throttle and under 3500 RPM, my AFR stays around 14.2 to 13.6. As soon as it hits 3500 RPM, the AFR's go to 10.8 or so and the car has a lot more power. The timing is set to 4 degrees BTDC. Would this be a timing issue or a program issue in the chip?

 

[turboglenn]

Man, i've had that mysteriouse anti freeze smell and if it's fain and only when hot and hout out, then it could be anywhere, mine was a SS cooling line for the turbo just barely weeping and the heat from the turbo was burning it off as it came out so you couldn't find it untill noticing the deposits from hours on hours of drops of antifreeze slowly drying up there..tightened line, now no smell or build up. You need to see if you can smell it strongest at the exhaust tip so you know if it's going in the combustion chamber or not.. 135 compression is nothing to worry about, cars have gone low 11's high 10's with 135psi across the board. what's important is they are all very close to each other meaning they are probably all ok, but a leak-down test can find crack and such that won't show up on a compression test because it's more of a violent buildup of air into the gauge pretty fast..leak down tests pump air in and measure in % the amount leaked out of the total amount pumped in. Also some engines/people have had issues where the leak only heats and expands to keep leaking at certain temps, or one recently the guys head would lift a tad under boost and then leak a while until it cooled or something then it was good again unitll he did some WOT/Boosted pulls.. It's not always an easy find but eliminate every easy test youcan first to avoid undue hard labor/tasks

 

[EagleTalonTim]

One things that is really strange is when the knock shows up as soon as the turbo starts spooling, I can let off the throttle, then instantly get back on the throttle and the knock goes away, the car has full power and everything is fine. The AFR goes to 10.8 and no knock shows the entire pull. It is only when I start into WOT does the knock appear.

 

[tron2119]

First, I have not heard good things about autozone knock sensors. Second, you need something to monitor what is actually going on inside the engine (when it knocks, timing, ect...) Also your timing is off. It should be 5 BTDC.

I also second Turboglenn's post. A highly pressurized rad hose after just 30 seconds is normally a sign of a HG leak. Or could be a cracked or warped head as Glenn stated. I definitely do not think its your new turbo. That wouldn't cause the problems you're having.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I did replace the head gasket when I replaced the turbo since I put in new valve guide seals and ARP headstuds. When I pulled the head, I sent it to a local shop who mills many of the drag car heads in this area. He milled the head and said he had to take off 6000's of an inch if I am not mistaken. Sorry...been over a year ago. He also checked for cracks in the head and reseated the valves. I put an OEM headgasket on and cleaned everything with alcohol before I put it back together. This is the 5th headgasket I have replaced on all 4 Eagle Talons I have owned. For some reason, I guess this one is giving me problems?

I have ordered an OEM knock sensor and will be putting that on as soon as it comes in. I also did not know, but I have the knock sensor wire on my SAFC II hooked up which apparently is not a good thing. Another thing I heard from Emery at STM, he told me I could pull my coolant lines from the Evo III 16g and it will not hurt anything. I have never heard of doing this on a smaller turbo, so I wanted to see if anyone has heard or tried it before and what were the results?

 

[tron2119]

Keep us updated! As far as the coolant line to the 16g go, you can safely remove them. You just need to let the car idle a little longer to cool off if you've been ripping on it. Or just install a turbo timer.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I read into the coolant line bypass and have decided to not do it. I will be pulling the intake side off and checking for shaft play though.

Apparently, Autozone knock sensors are junk and should never be installed on our cars even if it is a DD. I will keep this thread updated as I find more about my issue. If I have any questions, I will post them!

 

[EagleTalonTim]

Got a question.... I have a ticking noise when under easy throttle while driving. In park and reving, I cannot hear it. It sounds like it is coming from the drivers side somewhere. It sounds almost like a lifter tapping. The more acceleration, the louder it gets. Could this be a collapsed lifter? That would cause all kinds of problems including the knock sensor picking that up.

 

[turboglenn]

Could be your issue but it could be so many things from a header gasket leak to piston or wrist pin damage that diagnosing it via the net will be almost impossible, I would say your best bet is to get a machanics stethescope and do some poking and listening over and around the engine until you can pick up and pin point it, hell it could even be a head gasket (unlikely but i've seens stranger things happen)

 

[brian9397gsx]

Man it sounds like head gasket, you said you start the car and have pressure in the radiator hose within 30 seconds. The leaking hg will also throw off afr's and cause knock. Do a coolant pressure test and pull the spark plugs out and look down the tubes with a bright flash light see iff you can see coolant leaking into the bores.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I really hope it is not the head gasket. I just replaced it about 4 months ago after having the head milled. I will see if I can get a hold of a coolant pressure tester and see what the results are. I will keep this thread updated.

UPDATE : I know this is dangerous, but I put the car in 4th gear with the ebrake on and revved up the engine enough to hear the ticking sound. It sounds to be coming from the exhaust side of the turbo which brings me to believe there is an exhaust leak there. Once close to the sound, it sounds like a puffing sound with a tick, just like a small exhaust leak. I wonder if all the turbo heat has caused the o2 housing gasket to blow. That would also throw off my o2 readings too.....

 

[mattasi]

Oh snap that could be it. Any updates?

 

[EagleTalonTim]

Got on OEM knock sensor and a SS O2 housing gasket on their way now. Will have them in a few days....crossing fingers....

 

[CrashGNX]

Hey Tim, I live in Brighton also, I do alot of work on wierd problems no one else can figure out. This is my 4th dsm and got the 5th in the yard . Send me a PM if you need some help on yours.