90 vs 91 dsm"s

[codeofdastreets]

Hey I was just curious of what the diffrence between the 1990 dsm and the 1991 dsm are??

 

[mindset]

Only the first month of 91 builds.

My 91' has a 22 spline as well. I'd have to look up the manufacture date but is there any chance mine could have an EPROM due to it being built in an earlier month? Seems logical they would use leftover parts from the 90's to put on 91's.

 

[DSMopar]

Right now your argument is ignore what the manufacture says and listen to you instead. So then, where exactly are you pulling this 50% number from. Your car as proof?

I've talked to the guys who worked the line back when these cars were built at factory MOD about inventory management, since there does seem to be a bit of randomness when you look at parts distribution. JIT scheduling was still pretty new and it wasn't unusual for a boat to be late from Japan. When given the choice between shutting down the production line or using a different part that fit, what do you think they did?

No, my argument right now is ignore what the factory says, find out yourself. It's better than before I responded to the thread and everyone ASSumed 91 = 23 spline...

And I too am familiar with production line techniques, you want oddball stuff look at classic mopars, parts from different years all over the place. Point is, like you said they don't shut the line down... they find parts. So their 'generalized' part dates are just that, generalized... they don't take into account the exceptions... and there's alot of them in switch-over years.

 

[wickednightmare]

Isnt the intake cam more agressive on 91-94?

 

[Asymptote]

The studs off the intake manifold that the TB attaches to are longer on a '90.
And I saw it posted, but yes the fuel rails are different, the way inlet flange is positioned interferes with a '91+ TPS (ran into this problem this week actually)

 

[imdrax]

My 92 Laser has ABS AND LSD?........

 

[steve]

My 92 Laser has ABS AND LSD?........

It could, does it?

 

[imdrax]

Sorry, I meant my post to be a statement not a question. I read someones post on the first page saying that NO 1g's came with both ABS and LSD and thought I would chime in to say that is fact not the case. Pre-92 I'm not sure but my 92 6bolt/4bolt definitely came from the factory with both..

BTW my 92 also has a 22 spline tcase and transmission.

 

[dsm-onster]

My 1991 (Aug. 1990) was all original. KEY: Tranny VIN matches body VIN. It has a 23spline count. 1992? I'll bet someone swapped in an early tranny (22spline), saw the spline count for the transfer was different, and hunt down a 22spline transfer to swap in instead since it was "easier".

Those that say to look at what's out there yourself and 'ignore what the factory says', you need to varify the tranny vin matches your body vin. There's a million mechanics out there that know how to swap in a tranny but wouldn't suspect the spline count on the output would suddenly change sometime in the middle of a generation run. Then they do the above. Just hunt down a transfer case an make the customer wait since the time invested is all a waste and he would still have to hunt down a tranny again. So unless you prove the tranny & transfer is original, then your likely a statistic for how weak these transmissions typically are. I know one did varify VINs of an early 1991 and saw a 22spline count. But interestingly mine was built in the same month of August and has a 23spline count.




The late 1991 (and early 1992) tranny has a stronger 3rd and 4th gear, hub, slider. Also, I believe the 1991 year was when they stopped making the aluminum casing for the transfer which gives it more forgiveness (less crack prone) under load.

Late 1991-early 1992 with a 4bolt rear swap and 1993-94 manual turbo cams is probably the best of everything for the 1st gen.

 

[donniekak]

My 1991 (Aug. 1990) was all original. KEY: Tranny VIN matches body VIN. It has a 23spline count. 1992? I'll bet someone swapped in an early tranny (22spline), saw the spline count for the transfer was different, and hunt down a 22spline transfer to swap in instead since it was "easier".

Those that say to look at what's out there yourself and 'ignore what the factory says', you need to varify the tranny vin matches your body vin. There's a million mechanics out there that know how to swap in a tranny but wouldn't suspect the spline count on the output would suddenly change sometime in the middle of a generation run. Then they do the above. Just hunt down a transfer case an make the customer wait since the time invested is all a waste and he would still have to hunt down a tranny again. So unless you prove the tranny & transfer is original, then your likely a statistic for how weak these transmissions typically are. I know one did varify VINs of an early 1991 and saw a 22spline count. But interestingly mine was built in the same month of August and has a 23spline count.




The late 1991 (and early 1992) tranny has a stronger 3rd and 4th gear, hub, slider. Also, I believe the 1991 year was when they stopped making the aluminum casing for the transfer which gives it more forgiveness (less crack prone) under load.

Late 1991-early 1992 with a 4bolt rear swap and 1993-94 manual turbo cams is probably the best of everything for the 1st gen.

I have a 22 spline transfer case in my garage with the iron front case. I also find it comical when people say the 1g transmissions are weaker because they grind all the time. If they only knew that most "built" transmissions have the late 91 early 92 gearset. Which i seem to have good luck with myself.

 

[chuckd]

Yes they all have (had) oil coolers, on the 90 it's an air cooler and on the later cars it's a water cooler.

Speaking of oil, the 90 and most of the 91 cars have straight cut gears in the oil pump. The 90's also have a different oil pressure regulator in the head.

whats the difference? difference in pressure?

 

[dsm-onster]

Straight cut gears tolerates side loading better.

 

[chuckd]

i was mainly refferring to the pressure regulator cap on the head.

 

[NeMiZiS]

Are the motor mounts different on a 90 VS a 92?

 

[steve]

Are the motor mounts different on a 90 VS a 92?

In which version of the car?

 

[NeMiZiS]

Going in a 1990 AWD 5 speed, I'm not sure about the motor all I know is it came out of a 92.

 

[slickers111]

1 is a year older.

 

[steve]

1 is a year older.

Could be more than that consider they started some 90's as early as May of 88 but those were mainly NA cars to start.

 

[DSM1G90]

To really see when your car was really built, look at the sticker plate in the driver's door. At the lower left corner of this sticker, you see a "MDH' - meaning, month, day and hour the vehicle left the factory.

Thus, my Laser is a '90, but the build month was June of 1989 which is listed in the upper right corner of that sticker plate and the "MDH" was 060912 - June 9th, 1989 at 12:00 hours (noon).

"Dang! I have a 21 year old DSM that runs GREAT!" (but can't brag too much - not the original motor...)

the ECU assigned to mine (MD128625), is the non-EPROM type.

-DSM

 

[steve]

Going in a 1990 AWD 5 speed, I'm not sure about the motor all I know is it came out of a 92.

You need to know both or expect to use the ones from the car your swapping into.
There are differences in part number between the 90's and later cars for the trans mount on an MT AWD and more differences between AT vs MT or AWD vs FWD.

 

[16vdohcturboawd]

Mines a 90. Built May 5th 1989.

No abs
No eprom...well it is now thanks to the folks at ecmlink.

 

[NeMiZiS]

You need to know both or expect to use the ones from the car your swapping into.
There are differences in part number between the 90's and later cars for the trans mount on an MT AWD and more differences between AT vs MT or AWD vs FWD.

Ok, well this Tsi I just got doesn't have the front motor mount installed.
I have the pieces but the mount won't sit flush on the block, because of a notch on the block.
The person I bought it from said that the motor is from a 92 and that they have notches on the blocks.
He attempted to drill out a notch of the mount it self but it isn't right and I don't want to drill it out and make it ghetto.
I'll get some pictures up asap.
I'm pretty new to 4g63 DSM's and I have done a lot of reading up on them since I got this one.

 

[19Eclipse90]

Ok, well this Tsi I just got doesn't have the front motor mount installed.
I have the pieces but the mount won't sit flush on the block, because of a notch on the block.
The person I bought it from said that the motor is from a 92 and that they have notches on the blocks.
He attempted to drill out a notch of the mount it self but it isn't right and I don't want to drill it out and make it ghetto.
I'll get some pictures up asap.
I'm pretty new to 4g63 DSM's and I have done a lot of reading up on them since I got this one.

All 1Gs with a manual transmission and all wheel drive share the same front, rear, and timing belt side mounts.

Your issue is either the transmission mount or that one of the other mounts, likely the front or rear pair (cylinder block roll stopper bracket and engine roll stopper bracket), is not correct because of mismatching FWD and AWD or automatic and manual.

Easiest way to get around this big headache is, as Steve suggested, to use the mounts from the car you are swapping into. That means those bolting to the frame and those bolting to the engine and transmission must all be, in your case, from the 1990 car.

 

[NeMiZiS]

Well I'm not sure about the car it came out of, all I know is it is a 92......
It is probably from an Auto or a FWD model.
I will post pictures when get off work tonight, of what I'm exactly talking about.

 

[Thomas91169]

So it"s possible to use 91 nd up 1g ecu"s??

yes, but will need rework.

i bought a 90 GSX that had no ecu and a seized motor.

Found nothing but 91-94 FED ecu's, and i needed a 90 CA ecu to pass emissions and be legal.

Talked to Tom Dorris @ ECMTuning (DSMLink) and had them turn a 91 FED ecu into a 90 CA and perform their standard socketing service.