50 trim not that fast. please bring some ideas.

[97gstnick]

Just to give you more hope and some perspective, at 21 psi on little to no street tune at all (didn't even plug in the logger this time) I trapped 110 mph with the worst launch ever. I'm completely convinced that the car will trap 112-113 with a better tune. Numbers wise, I made 293/262 @ 16 psi! Safe to say you definitely have more room to grow.

Keep your head up

thanks man. i guess i still have some tuning to do. but i also just found many exhaust leaks when using seafoam today. turns out my 4-5 month old new SBR exhaust manifold has a little crack in the middle. i have a few pre-turbo exhaust leaks, so i figure this is hurting me a little?

 

[andymoraitis]

Any leak before the O2 will kill performance. Get those fixed, change up the gaskets and you should feel a significant difference. Any time air that should be spinning the turbine is escaping, you're losing.

 

[97gstnick]

Any leak before the O2 will kill performance. Get those fixed, change up the gaskets and you should feel a significant difference. Any time air that should be spinning the turbine is escaping, you're losing.

ok, i will definitely get this done. as soon as i recover from my wisdom teeth being pulled. this sucks, but the percocet is nice. have any of you guys been given nitrous at the dentist? i told him to turn it up, man it was awesome.

 

[oldman]

have any of you guys been given nitrous at the dentist? i told him to turn it up, man it was awesome.

Did you notice any performance gains?

 

[90blacktsiawd]

Did you notice any performance gains?

HAHAHAHAHA

Ya it made him lay down and not budge for awhile. I bet it actually hurt performance.

 

[97gstnick]

HAHAHAHAHA

Ya it made him lay down and not budge for awhile. I bet it actually hurt performance.

haha, yea. i think it was too big of a shot. i was definitely not going anywhere.

 

[44pirate]

Blew a headgasket wht that shot.

 

[97gstnick]

yea, i sux being stuck in my room. but it kind of forces me to stay and study more and more about tuning and stuff like that. so in a way this is good for me. but i have been thinking, who thinks getting a smim before cams is a good idea? people say that my stock cams are not outflowing my stock intake manny so i need cams instead? but then how come people complain that the stock intake manny limits your powerband to 6000? i think im going to go ahead and get the intake first.


btw: i trapped 103 with a bogged out launch and a friend in the car. with my weight as a determining factor (spyder), i definitely have 300 at the wheels. but i must be making some crappy torque to not be blowing my stock clutch out.

 

[90blacktsiawd]

I'd recomend going with the cams first. Your going to be able to get more out of them off the bat than a smim. But get the manifold after the cams and you'll really be able to put it to some good use.

 

[AL92]

RS49T..
I had the RS49 as did Sweet97..not the T.It worked great but my car was slow.
A few reasons why..it had factory clutch..it had stock smic.It had terrrible phantom knock making tuning impossible.
I had no cams installed.Purchased 264/272 hks but never installed them.Also purchased sbr3500 and big extreme turbo fmic but never installed it. sold the 92.Did fix the phantom knock with eprom ecu and programming.I had fuel support..supra tt pump,650s and afpr.maft and the chipped ecu.
Car could have run great but the above stuff held it back. I didn't need cams to really go or a smim. My engine was also pretty old and tireds at 150,000 miles on the clock but the RS49 was pretty damn fast even at only 18psi or so when the clutch didn't slip, when the phantom knock wasn't happening and when the stock sidemount wasn't heatsoaking.
It would have been pretty damn fast at 22 or mabye 25 with big fmic and my also never installed water/alco injection system.
Also have you compression tested your engine,checked for all possible boost leaks?

I am also not a big turbonetics fan..more a garrett fan.
And tuning of course helps a lot ,a good afr and good timing with minimal knock.

Good luck getting your car to run the way you want. I am doing up mine currently with hopefully a good combo of parts. I expect the car to be crazy fast as this time have the fmic, the good clutch, the smim,the cams all the tuning and fuel support and a forged up 2.4 so it better be fast!!!
If it isn't well my twin turbo Trans am should be with over 1000 rwhp potential on that one!
Remember that small shots of spray also work very well on turbos. My jm fam intake is already set up for direct port nitrous.

 

[97gstnick]

well the thing is, my car is probably running decent considering my level of boost and conservative tune. i am only running 20 psi and tuned it rich with moderate timing. i think the thing is that i was expecting too much. that i think is my biggest problem. i had too big of hopes for my setup and now i am coming to be more realistic with my hopes.

does anyone know what the average power is made with a 50 trim with stock cams and intake manny and what boost? i just want to see what other people are making at certain boost levels so i can get a good idea of what mine is doing.

 

[sweet97]

Nick, you can make 450HP at the crank with what you have. Set the boost for 25psi. Keep the timing where it is for now but cut the fuel!!! You must be getting rich knock and a 50trim is NOT a 20psi turbo. Slowly lean the mix at WOT and see the results. Once you can run 25psi and lean it to .90 or .92volts then add a little timing 1* at a time.
Without a doubt get cams first. If you add a SMIM you will gain nothing but a slower car. SMIM's make power after 6000rpm's. Being safe and conservative is smart but running pig rich with low boost and timing and flowing 35lbs/min is ridiculous, sorry but it is. If need be get someone to help you tune the car with what you have to max what it is that you have. Is your motor capable of 8500rpm's through the gears? Tranny?

 

[daren_p]

yea, i sux being stuck in my room. but it kind of forces me to stay and study more and more about tuning and stuff like that. so in a way this is good for me. but i have been thinking, who thinks getting a smim before cams is a good idea? people say that my stock cams are not outflowing my stock intake manny so i need cams instead? but then how come people complain that the stock intake manny limits your powerband to 6000? i think im going to go ahead and get the intake first.


btw: i trapped 103 with a bogged out launch and a friend in the car. with my weight as a determining factor (spyder), i definitely have 300 at the wheels. but i must be making some crappy torque to not be blowing my stock clutch out.

Defently go cams first, your stock cams are holding you back not the intake mani. What kind of airflow are you seeing now & at what boost. At 18 on my evoIII I saw about 34 lb/min last year. Finally got a mbc to use while my Greddy EBC is still in for repair (only been 4 months so far ) so I'll get some new logs at 20psi. Adding a set of cams should easily bump your airflow 4-5lbs.

As for the head, keep the 2g. Yes stock for stock the 1g will flow more but a properly ported 2g head will flow better, if you descide to do some head work in the future.

What are your fuel trims reading? & what are your global and deadtime set at? Also what are your rpm sliders set at?

As for your hp estimate being low, mine seems to be as well. Have you set all the "props" correctly? Know you set the weight and tire size but what about drivetrain loss? Don't think it does have an effect on the Hp but have you entered your correct elevation?

Have you got a wideband yet? Heard you talking about PLX, I run their M-300. It works great, can log it directly with dsmlink (as trying to read a gauge while doing a wot pull is pointless). Get a factory O2 sensor to replace the dead one & get a bung welded in right after the flex section in your downpipe for the wideband. You can run it in the factory front location and use its narrowband output but it isn't recommended. Wideband sensors don't like the heat & should be placed 36"'s away from the turbo.

As for the clutch, yes it still can be holding up, remember your fwd. You brak traction much easier and don't put the strain on the clutch like an awd car does.

 

[97gstnick]

Nick, you can make 450HP at the crank with what you have. Set the boost for 25psi. Keep the timing where it is for now but cut the fuel!!! You must be getting rich knock and a 50trim is NOT a 20psi turbo. Slowly lean the mix at WOT and see the results. Once you can run 25psi and lean it to .90 or .92volts then add a little timing 1* at a time.
Without a doubt get cams first. If you add a SMIM you will gain nothing but a slower car. SMIM's make power after 6000rpm's. Being safe and conservative is smart but running pig rich with low boost and timing and flowing 35lbs/min is ridiculous, sorry but it is. If need be get someone to help you tune the car with what you have to max what it is that you have. Is your motor capable of 8500rpm's through the gears? Tranny?

ok, im going to try what you said. im not sure if im going to be able to hold 25 psi though. i have a 6 psi wastegate spring and im running 2 bleeders to achieve 20psi right now. we'll see what i can do. but i have to fix these stupid exhaust leaks first.

 

[97gstnick]

Defently go cams first, your stock cams are holding you back not the intake mani. What kind of airflow are you seeing now & at what boost. At 18 on my evoIII I saw about 34 lb/min last year. Finally got a mbc to use while my Greddy EBC is still in for repair (only been 4 months so far ) so I'll get some new logs at 20psi. Adding a set of cams should easily bump your airflow 4-5lbs.

As for the head, keep the 2g. Yes stock for stock the 1g will flow more but a properly ported 2g head will flow better, if you descide to do some head work in the future.

What are your fuel trims reading? & what are your global and deadtime set at? Also what are your rpm sliders set at?

As for your hp estimate being low, mine seems to be as well. Have you set all the "props" correctly? Know you set the weight and tire size but what about drivetrain loss? Don't think it does have an effect on the Hp but have you entered your correct elevation?

Have you got a wideband yet? Heard you talking about PLX, I run their M-300. It works great, can log it directly with dsmlink (as trying to read a gauge while doing a wot pull is pointless). Get a factory O2 sensor to replace the dead one & get a bung welded in right after the flex section in your downpipe for the wideband. You can run it in the factory front location and use its narrowband output but it isn't recommended. Wideband sensors don't like the heat & should be placed 36"'s away from the turbo.

As for the clutch, yes it still can be holding up, remember your fwd. You brak traction much easier and don't put the strain on the clutch like an awd car does.

so when i do get an intake manifold which will be a jmfabrications. which one would you suggest? port my head to match the 1g or go with the 2g?

 

[arash15]

yea, i sux being stuck in my room. but it kind of forces me to stay and study more and more about tuning and stuff like that. so in a way this is good for me. but i have been thinking, who thinks getting a smim before cams is a good idea? people say that my stock cams are not outflowing my stock intake manny so i need cams instead? but then how come people complain that the stock intake manny limits your powerband to 6000? i think im going to go ahead and get the intake first.


btw: i trapped 103 with a bogged out launch and a friend in the car. with my weight as a determining factor (spyder), i definitely have 300 at the wheels. but i must be making some crappy torque to not be blowing my stock clutch out.

GET CAMS. there are so many people like you in this position so GET CAMS. plain and simple.

 

[sweet97]

ok, im going to try what you said. im not sure if im going to be able to hold 25 psi though. i have a 6 psi wastegate spring and im running 2 bleeders to achieve 20psi right now. we'll see what i can do. but i have to fix these stupid exhaust leaks first.

I have a SBR large runner exhaust, new, and a wide open ported by Buschur o2 housing that would solve that and open up the exhaust flow a bit. Also shim the actuaroe bolts with washers to gain more wastegate preload and you will gain boost. That 50 trim can flow 49lns and you should be able to get it to flow 42-43pounds which would be an 80HP increase just with that alone. Then cams would add even more though my Crower stage 4's might be a bit much unless you are looking for 500crank HP. Mark

 

[daren_p]

Sweet97, are you sure he should turn it up to 25 psi on pump, he is a 2g remember & their not as strong as the 1g's. Isn't he still running the stock head gasket & head bolts? I know I wouldn't push mine that high on the street, especially without those 2 items, maybe I'm just cautious . Not sure if it was in here already but what octane are you running?

As for the intake mani, if it was me I'd go for the 2g version & get the head "properly" ported. If the time comes for me that I go to a built motor, I will swap to 6 bolt just to be on the safe side but I will defently be keeping the 2g head & just have it built.

Defently try the cams first, depending on what cams you get you will lose some low/mid range to gain in the upper rpms. The SMIM will only add to this even more, from the dyno graphs posted vs stock intake mani the SMIM won't start making more power till 5500 or so. Some people have no problem making all their power from 5500 rpms up on their street car while this isn't what others want. Just don't want you to get into something that doesn't fit your driving style in the long run. It's best to take it one step at a time .

 

[97gstnick]

I have a SBR large runner exhaust, new, and a wide open ported by Buschur o2 housing that would solve that and open up the exhaust flow a bit. Also shim the actuaroe bolts with washers to gain more wastegate preload and you will gain boost. That 50 trim can flow 49lns and you should be able to get it to flow 42-43pounds which would be an 80HP increase just with that alone. Then cams would add even more though my Crower stage 4's might be a bit much unless you are looking for 500crank HP. Mark

i cant shim the actuator bolts with washers because i dont have one. i have a tial 38mm on my sbr cast manifold.

 

[97gstnick]

yes i have the stock headgasket and stock head studs. so is 25 psi going to be safe for me? i guess i will order a stiffer wastegate spring because i definitely need more boost. you are right about that mark.

 

[AL92]

If you can't hit 25 just change out your 6 psi spring! Simple as pie..get a 20 or 15 psi min spring.Problem solved!
And you might have problems running 25 on pump.depending on your intercooler and how high octane you can buy there.
You should easily be able to run 24 to 25 on pump though if you add water/alco injection.
I know a guy that has FPred and is running 24 on pump with that setup no problem.

Cams would be great mod and are pretty easy if you do the rre method or have to change your timing belt anyway.

As said I got the smim but already had the other mods too and even if it only works from 6000 to 7500 or 8000 on my 2.4 thats fine. I like a lot of top end and 2.4 have bottom and mid anyway.

Sweet knows his stuff ,he has had 14b,evo,RS49,RS60T and his holeset 35/40.

Also you need to run as lean as possible with still decent timing to be screaming fast.
A 50 trim is more than capable of being screaming fast. I still wish I had my 50 trim would throw it on my 91fwd turbo for some serious fun right now.

You could also sell off your current turbo and get an FP3052..pricey but hey they are proven fast!
Just looking at my new FP3065 gives me a big..well you know..

 

[AL92]

I think guys have ran 25 with stock head gasket but arp studs would be a good idea.And of course if you have the head off a mls gasket would maybe be a good idea.

I am still not sure you can run much over 20 unless you have water/alco injection especially in hotter months.Have to watch that scanner carefully.

 

[97gstnick]

well i think im going to get cams first then. has anybody had good experience with fp2x cams?

 

[sweet97]

Wiseman andymoraitis ran his '98 AWD with a big 16G at 26psi on stock internals, ran a 12.57 @ 109mph. At least shoot for 22-23psi, after all isn't the 50 trim the pump gas king? Lean the mix and that will do wonders and then try as much timing as you can get away with. i am assuming you have 93 octane available. Mark

 

[97gstnick]

Wiseman andymoraitis ran his '98 AWD with a big 16G at 26psi on stock internals, ran a 12.57 @ 109mph. At least shoot for 22-23psi, after all isn't the 50 trim the pump gas king? Lean the mix and that will do wonders and then try as much timing as you can get away with. i am assuming you have 93 octane available. Mark

yes, you are correct. it is 93 octane that i use here. i know i should be running some more boost. im going to try to when i get my exhaust leaks sorted out.