2G Spyder 4g64 Hybrid Turbo

[alexr254]

I've decided to do a whole engine rebuild on my 99 G2 Spyder GS with a 4g64. Automatic Trans
I will be getting the block machined and cleaned. New pistons, piston rings, crank polished, new bearings, etc...

This car is kinda just a toy - something fun for me to work on with my dad. Its not a daily driver and its not a car that is relied upon for travel. I would call it just a spare vehicle, but a vehicle we both really love.

I already ordered a balance shaft delete with OEM parts, including the stubby shaft.

What I am not sure about is if its smart or not to buy an eBay turbo kit. Like the linked below. I am close to pulling the trigger on this one. But really have no one I know personally that can give me advice. So was hoping to get some friendly advice here

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https://www.ebay.com/itm/373699257226

Would anyone with experience with these engines please chime in and be honest with me about the turbo kit?
Should we stay away from a kit like this eBay one?
Or are there better options we should look at that wont break the bank?

I am aware these eBay kits are made in China and are not great quality. Its hit or miss. I'm hoping for the hit.
Unfortunately we are working with a 4G64 SOHC and trying to make the best of it. A 4G63 swap is not in the cards.

Please know that we are not even close to being pros. We like to wrench and have done several engine rebuilds. But not on a DSM before. We have a good understanding of mechanical engineering. But at the same time its just a hobby. So please do not think I am claiming otherwise. I am here to learn

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

The kits are garbage and don't include everything you need, especially on the fuel and tuning side. There will also be fabrication that needs to be done to make the intercooler piping work, and there is clearly no exhaust solution. Buying one of those Chinese "everything includes" kits as a novice is one of the worst things you can do.

 

[dustyboner]

Yup, ebay turbo kit are cheap chinese crap that will most likely run for a while, a part will fail, and it wll probably kill your engine.
there's no point building an engine just to ruin it with a cheap turbo kit.

are you gonna do a head swap? If not, you might wanna consider it.

Then depending on how much cash you want to drop,
go with as many stock 4g63 turbo parts as you can get for a lower cost setup or
if you want something else, figure out how much your budget is.
there are too many options for a custom setup but they will limited by what your willing to spend.

 

[alexr254]

So look for a 4g63 head?
and look for 4g63t parts?
So there are no all in one kits?

 

[alexr254]

Does anyone have any write ups they can share on this?
Adding a turbo to a SOHC 4g64 with stock internals?
Would love to go DOHC but I just haven’t been able to find a head.

 

[motomattx]

Its not a good idea to try to turbo a stock 4g64, the engine has pistons that are not set up for a turbo and would not be able to play well with being forced induction, also the non turbo ecu will run a non turbo ignition map that is too aggressive for turbo engine and has no knock sensor input to even detect knock to save the engine when it detonates, you can turbo the engine but it wont be as easy or cheap as just slapping a turbo on it, if it was the car company would have included a turbo from the factory on your 4g64. A 4g63 head would be a nice upgrade to your car, it is almost a bolt on affair and should make your car unique and should add some torque to it and would lend itself to a turbo upgrade in the future when you gather more money and parts, if you are rebuilding it on a budget and plan to turbo it, I would definitely upgrade the pistons while you have it open.

 

[alexr254]

I have seen a ton of people who have turbo'd a 4g64 with stock internals without issues. But lacking details unfortunately, which is why i askled here. The best place for DSM info like this.

Ive done quite a bit of mods already. And have a more lined up.
I have a ECMlinked v3 ECU.
Ive replaced the fuel injectors to PTE680's.
Installed a walbro 255lph fuel pump.
FuelLab 515 regulator kit.
Have a new catback exhaust ready to be installed.
Have 4g63 exhaust header.
Ive done a rear drum to disc swap.
And i am sure more i am forgetting.

When i say internals i mean i dont want to change the crank or cam. I dont want to bore, change pistons etc.
Simply put, i dont want to remove the entire engine block. I've already done it for the balance shaft delete. I dont want to do i again.
If i can find a 4g63 head which isnt way overpriced, i would love to get one. But havent so i am going with what i have, or can get.
I am also on the fence of how to install a turbo and which turbo to get.

I can understand why you would assume i am on such a tight budget. I am on a budget, probably like 99% of the world. Not one to waste money.
But if it were so tight i would not even attempt this, or have half the things i already got.
Also i can understand why you may think i dont know about mechanical engineering. Because i am asking questions about turbos.
But i have a fairly good knowledge of mechanical engineering. Ive rebuilt many engines in my life. Im not a very young man anymore.
None with a turbo.
Im just looking for some friendly advice without being judged.

 

[motomattx]

You say that you are getting new pistons in your first post? why not get the right pistons so you can turbo it safely?

 

[alexr254]

You say that you are getting new pistons in your first post? why not get the right pistons so you can turbo it safely?

Because life events came up, when i posted the first message in this thread back in 2021, the person i was doing this with is not alive anymore.
Things change.

I will not be rebuilding the entire engine by myself.
The only reason im even doing this is because of the person i lost. We discussed it, it was in the works, he passed away. I am finishing what we started to the extent that i can.

I see you like to shoot down anyone who asks about turboing a 4g64. I dont know why. I guess you have your reasons.
But again, there used to be a lot of good info on this. But those sites went dead. So i am hoping for some online resources.

I remember seeing a website that listed all options, with SOHC, with DOCH, with certain turbos, what HP to expect from them, etc.
The site is either dead now or i just cant find it anymore.

 

[Spyder786]

Condolences on your loss man, I've been there. motivation is key, hope this build brings you closer to what you're searching for.

I used this link from back in the days, its technically not live anymore but if you use a site like 'wayback machine' (google it) you can view it/see prev versions of it:

Free Web Hosting, Free Website Builder, Make a Website

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4g64.150m.com

I found the easiest way for me was to buy a donor (gst) that was rotted out and swap in the turbo setup - including the wiring. stock 4g64 wiring can be modified but you said you got dsmlink setup, if its working and running correctly you may not have to swap the wiring..?

Without an effective way to control boost/limit it on hard pulls on a stock 4g64 sohc there's a strong possibility it will not last or worse...so I've heard.

Lots of nice 4g64 sohc builds and awd swaps in here, you can always search and private message people - i find this to be another good way to get info

 

[alexr254]

Condolences on your loss man, I've been there. motivation is key, hope this build brings you closer to what you're searching for.

I used this link from back in the days, its technically not live anymore but if you use a site like 'wayback machine' (google it) you can view it/see prev versions of it:

Free Web Hosting, Free Website Builder, Make a Website

How to Make a Website with free web hosting services & cheap web hosting for ecommerce & small business hosting. Create & Make a Free Website with Affordable web hosting provider free website promotion tools & web stats. Free Website Builder, Templates, & Best Free Web Hosting. How to Create a...

4g64.150m.com

I found the easiest way for me was to buy a donor (gst) that was rotted out and swap in the turbo setup - including the wiring. stock 4g64 wiring can be modified but you said you got dsmlink setup, if its working and running correctly you may not have to swap the wiring..?

Without an effective way to control boost/limit it on hard pulls on a stock 4g64 sohc there's a strong possibility it will not last or worse...so I've heard.

Lots of nice 4g64 sohc builds and awd swaps in here, you can always search and private message people - i find this to be another good way to get info

Thank you!
That link to website history is very helpful

Ive searched and searched for a donor car. Maybe i am just horrible at searching, but there is nothing close to where i live.
Ive tried all the junk yards (lqk, etc), and local classifieds.
If i can get a 4g63 head that does not require a machine shop for abour $400 or below, i would jump on it.
But i have yet to find a reasonalbly priced one.

 

[Tina94]

From the little bit I know, it sounds like an expensive and time consuming proposition for the small amount of boost you can safely run on a stock 64 bottom end. It’s still a sporty, cool looking car that handles well, I’d just enjoy it for what it is and have fun with it.

You said you’ve rebuild several engines. Pistons and rods aren’t that expensive if you have the knowhow and the tools to do it yourself, which clearly you do. Gotta start with reliability and then build up to power. Budget for the bottom end this year and then turbo stuff next year. The turbo is a lot of time and money gone with one solid pull on a slightly less-than-perfect tune or instance of boost creep with a stock 4g64 bottom end. Not trying to kill your dream, just my $.02.

 

[alexr254]

From the little bit I know, it sounds like an expensive and time consuming proposition for the small amount of boost you can safely run on a stock 64 bottom end. It’s still a sporty, cool looking car that handles well, I’d just enjoy it for what it is and have fun with it.

You said you’ve rebuild several engines. Pistons and rods aren’t that expensive if you have the knowhow and the tools to do it yourself, which clearly you do. Gotta start with reliability and then build up to power. Budget for the bottom end this year and then turbo stuff next year. The turbo is a lot of time and money gone with one solid pull on a slightly less-than-perfect tune or instance of boost creep with a stock 4g64 bottom end. Not trying to kill your dream, just my $.02.

Its kinda funny how everyone keeps going back to cost

For sure there is cost involved. But that is not my driving factor. But i also wont pay anyone to do this for me.
This is not a daily driver. Currently has about 70k miles on it.

I really wont be hoisting the engine out. Not unless something comes up and i have some help which i enjoy doing this stuff with.
Ive rebuilt about a dozen or so engines. I understand what is involved, and the cost of the machine work, pistons, bearings, rings, etc - is not really my concern.
Its the work involved.

I get it its a common theme here that 4g64 internals + turbo = BAD
And i am sure some have blown their internals trying to overdue it.
From what ive researched this is not the norm.
I would really like to see some threads with someone who turbod a 4g64 with stock internals and blew their engine. I cant find any, if you can share some links it would be a good helpful read.

So instead of trying to persuade people to do something completely different, i suppose it would be cool to try to help people with what they have in mind.

 

[Tina94]

My goal isn’t to persuade you. It’s your car, you do whatever you want with it and God bless. That’s your right. My goal was to mention the risk involved because I see an awful lot of nice cars and trucks going to the scrap yard or being parted out for cents on the dollar when people get starry eyed about power without investing in supporting mods. But if you’ve got it figured out then by all means, it would be an awesome upgrade.

Maybe everyone is mentioning cost because the thread started with an inquiry about buying an eBay turbo kit and you’d like a 4g63 head decked and ready to roll for $400 out the door. I assumed budget was a big factor, it wasn’t an insult it just seemed like you were trying to save as much money as possible, that’s all. No offense intended

For what it’s worth, I figure a cheap but better than eBay turbo could live a long and happy life on a 4g64 since it won’t be pushed hard. VSracing is head and shoulders above others and cxracing seems to have made big strides lately too. A plain old used 14b could give a lot of useable power too and would bolt right up. Plus oem build quality. Quick spool with 2.4 liters I’d imagine. Not sure on oil feed with a 4g64 but you can run the oil return in AN line instead of the hard return (id weld a -10 bung in the oil pan and call it a day), and I’m pretty sure some guys don’t bother with the water cooling. Probably wouldn’t need it for 4g64 boost levels. So it should more or less just bolt right up to your manifold and then you just have to build a downpipe. Ebay has a ton of flanges that will bolt to the Mitsubishi o2 housing. You already have an exhaust kit so you could hang it and have an easy target to pipe to. Then any fmic kit should drop right in and you already have tuning figured out it sounds like. I’d probably add an external wastegate with very light springs as a safety since a stock 14b gate would allow you to build too much boost.

Don’t quote me, I’m absolutely not an expert on this topic. But I think that would be a good place to start researching.

 

[jesse12345]

I can honestly say I fully support your decisions, however I know what it's like to get boost spike and then the engine has to come out anyways.

I would steer clear from the eBay wastegates that's how I blew my engine.

Whatever you have planned out I say go for it, but a lot of us have experienced what you may end up going through and are just trying to give you a little heads up and some good advice. When I swapped my 420a to a 4g I just dove right in and documented along the way. I didn't ask questions because I knew the answers and I knew what I was getting myself into.

Anyways good luck on the build and I'm sorry for your loss may God bless you!

 

[alexr254]

Thanks for all your input!!
I did not mean to sound offputting or defensive.

I am just really just looking for some online resources for a 2G SOHC turbo setup. Its doable and it exists. It may not be the best, but im ok with that.

 

[Spyder786]

One mod that you can start with that not a lot of people talk about is swapping in the turbo ECU only (without the turbo). I did this 1st before adding the turbo components and noticed a huge difference in throttle response and acceleration.

I used the stock 450cc injectors with resistor box and turbo ECU/front engine wiring harness - had to setup a temporary intake/filter but it felt like a completely different car - throttle response was instant. lt was running super rich but with DSMLink v3 you can potentially fix that.

I added the turbo components after I had all the bugs worked out.

 

[alexr254]

I keep hearing all these bad things about ebay knock off turbos. And i do beleive it.
I have also gotten my fair share of crap from Ebay. Logically, you get what you pay for.

The Ebay kits come with the intercooler, piping, etc... Thats what makes them appealing.
When i cant find any branded kits like this.

One mod that you can start with that not a lot of people talk about is swapping in the turbo ECU only (without the turbo). I did this 1st before adding the turbo components and noticed a huge difference in throttle response and acceleration.

I used the stock 450cc injectors with resistor box and turbo ECU/front engine wiring harness - had to setup a temporary intake/filter but it felt like a completely different car - throttle response was instant. lt was running super rich but with DSMLink v3 you can potentially fix that.

I added the turbo components after I had all the bugs worked out.

I do have a freshly slotted ecmlinkv3 ECU.
I have not had a chance to install it yet.

I was under the impression its a straight ECU swap. Am i mistaken?

 

[Spyder786]

I do have a freshly slotted ecmlinkv3 ECU.
I have not had a chance to install it yet.

I was under the impression its a straight ECU swap. Am i mistaken?

unfortunately turbo ecu swap is not plug and play.

Here is the writeup to convert existing 4g64 non turbo wiring:

Thread 'Turbo ECU in a Spyder GS' https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/turbo-ecu-in-a-spyder-gs.424084/

 

[jesse12345]

I keep hearing all these bad things about ebay knock off turbos. And i do beleive it.
I have also gotten my fair share of crap from Ebay. Logically, you get what you pay for.

The Ebay kits come with the intercooler, piping, etc... Thats what makes them appealing.
When i cant find any branded kits like this.

The piping and what not isn't bad and I've had fairly good luck with the Chinese turbos on low boost. I can't say for how long to be honest, I constantly cycle them out but there pretty universal kits. You could piece together a high quality kit and save yourself the headache.

 

[Stapl3]

Just run a 16g or 14b. What more do you need? They go forever and can be had for dirt cheap.

 

[alexr254]

unfortunately turbo ecu swap is not plug and play.

Here is the writeup to convert existing 4g64 non turbo wiring:

Thread 'Turbo ECU in a Spyder GS' https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/turbo-ecu-in-a-spyder-gs.424084/

Thanks for this info.
That’s not bad at all. Only thing I’m missing is the knock sensor, and it’s already on order.
The wiring is a non issue for me. It’s easy enough.
When I heard wiring harness I figured many wires, this is not that

 

[alexr254]

Forgot to mention the S90 throttle body I also have.
The DOHC is something I will probably get soon.
But still adamant about not changing internals unless I need to pull then engine, which I am trying hard to avoid doing.

My goal isn’t to persuade you. It’s your car, you do whatever you want with it and God bless. That’s your right. My goal was to mention the risk involved because I see an awful lot of nice cars and trucks going to the scrap yard or being parted out for cents on the dollar when people get starry eyed about power without investing in supporting mods. But if you’ve got it figured out then by all means, it would be an awesome upgrade.

Maybe everyone is mentioning cost because the thread started with an inquiry about buying an eBay turbo kit and you’d like a 4g63 head decked and ready to roll for $400 out the door. I assumed budget was a big factor, it wasn’t an insult it just seemed like you were trying to save as much money as possible, that’s all. No offense intended

Honestly I haven’t read the original post for years and forgot what it said.
Yea things definitely changed since then.

Just run a 16g or 14b. What more do you need? They go forever and can be had for dirt cheap.

Sounds like a whole lot more is needed.
These are the things I don’t have yet.

Including but not limited to;
Intercooler, oil pan hookup/addition, a whole mess of new pipes, a AFR meter, the turbo itself.

Part’s recommended;
4g63 DOHC head, piston swap.

Although I wonder about the AFR if I have ecmlink connected to a laptop. Don’t really see the need.

 

[alexr254]

Ok so i decided to bite the bullet and get a 4g63 head.

But i cant decide which.
There is a couple im debating on from Ebay.
One is somewhat modified but looks new.
The other is a remanufactiured unmodified.

They are similar in price.

I am not sure what to make out of this head?
For a 4g64 head swap...
I cant ask if its worth it. But what i can ask is if the mods make it better or worse, more valuable or less?
Are the mods ok for a 4g64 swap?

90-99 Eclipse Talon 1G DSM 4G63T New Head Ported Kiggly Springs Buschur Cams | eBay

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www.ebay.com

Anyone?
Know I’ll be paying a premium for a head that’s newly refurbished. But I’ve had bad experiences with local machine shops.
The nearest good one I’ve been to is a 90 minute drive each way.

I’m just really not sure about the modified head I linked.
The welded on parts make me nervous.
The brembo cams sound amazing, but maybe overkill for what I’m doing?

Is it better to just get a stock one?

 

[Spleen8urLSX]

For what it’s worth, I figure a cheap but better than eBay turbo could live a long and happy life on a 4g64 since it won’t be pushed hard. VSracing is head and shoulders above others and cxracing seems to have made big strides lately too. A plain old used 14b could give a lot of useable power too and would bolt right up. Plus oem build quality. Quick spool with 2.4 liters I’d imagine. Not sure on oil feed with a 4g64 but you can run the oil return in AN line instead of the hard return (id weld a -10 bung in the oil pan and call it a day), and I’m pretty sure some guys don’t bother with the water cooling. Probably wouldn’t need it for 4g64 boost levels. So it should more or less just bolt right up to your manifold and then you just have to build a downpipe. Ebay has a ton of flanges that will bolt to the Mitsubishi o2 housing. You already have an exhaust kit so you could hang it and have an easy target to pipe to. Then any fmic kit should drop right in and you already have tuning figured out it sounds like. I’d probably add an external wastegate with very light springs as a safety since a stock 14b gate would allow you to build too much boost.

Don’t quote me, I’m absolutely not an expert on this topic. But I think that would be a good place to start researching.

You’d be surprised how much they can take when everything is proper. After over 20k miles making over 400 at the wheels my original non turbo pistons are still fine, and the last turbo on it was a 63mm Borg, quite a distance from a 14b let alone the 16g I originally started with. Not saying I would go advising everyone to do it but I’m so confident in them I bought new non turbo pistons for the new block, the only downfall is no one will want those pistons when I go to sell all the dsm crap off here soon.