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4g64 block with 4g63 head!?

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you need to do some research. There is a thread already on this forum about the 2.0 vs2.4, plus tons of others about the 2.4 block, its abilities and how to go about building it. What components are you putting in the head? if they are aftermarket, then yea I would say its a better block. You have better better components in it.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/388318-2-0-vs-2-4l.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/354522-4g64-2-4l-turbo-sohc-swap-dohc.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420...-put-4g63-dohc-head-into-4g64-sohc-block.html

those are just some results when I searched.

There is no better block, there is a better block for what you application is. Read why people use the 2.4 block with DOHC. You are going to find that you will receive more help when you provide more details and in dept questions. You post question is too vague to help you out with.


-goodluck
 
I have a 91 Plymouth Laser RS 2.0L N/T JDM engine. This car has been gutted out. 6 point cage installed. Window/glass lights and all street trim removed. No emissions on engine. The Haed was shaved just shy of it's maximum tolerance to help boost compression. The JDM engine has larger cams equiv to the 240 cams. I am estimating around 135 hp and 130 fp of torque. I run 185-60-14 DOT tires. This car is raced on a 3/10's oval race track. With a claim rule of $900. I built the car 3 years ago with $1,100. Just have maintained it and only replace parts as they break. The RPM range used is 4200 rpm in the corners and 6100 rpm by the end of the straights. Here is my problem. I am running against 160 +hp cars with larger engines and greater torque. I do pretty good out driving most of them if I don't make a mistake. My torque peak is at 4500 rpm so droping to 4200 rpm really bogs the car. If I lift for any reason I get passed. I have taken 3rd in points on the season 2 years running. This year I want a championship.

Question 1: Is there a Trans with a lower 3rd gear or diff gear that will help keep RPM's around 5000? I have the smallest tire I can find and run for 3rd. Bigger and 2nd doen't work, rpm's hit 7500 with 205's. Not making power.

Question 2: Is there a very low cost stroker due to the $900 claim rule I can put together To boost and widen my torque curve? Would like to get up to 160 Foot lbs.

Question 3: Is there any mods I can do to the 4G63 Engine to help get up to 160 F/lbs? Our class doesn't allow mods much so they need to be kept to a minimum. Most cars on the track are illegally modified hence the 3rd in points twice and cant get any better. And yes I can drive.

Question 4: If I can do a 2.3L 4G63, Will the Fuel, electronics, sensors and ecu be addiquate ti run such an engine?

I am going to pull the engine and so far my plans are to re-build it. I will bore it 0.040 (65mm), remove the balance shafts (kit) and am going to have the whole rotating assembly Balaced. I am just not sure this will be enough to get me to 160flbs? I am very smooth, quick and totally count on my driving. I need more engine/power so that I can lean on the car a little more and not worry about how to get rpm's back up if I should make a mistake. I am very machaniclly inclined. ASE certified and do Allot of performance builds of mostly domestic engines. This is the first car I have ever raced with a 4 cyl in it and the least amount of power I have been behind. So I do not know what mods, tricks or parts are out there for them. I am very frustrated to do so well and only to be beaten out by cheater (hopped up) cars. Any and all tips and knowlage would be great.
Please help me with this prob. And keep in mind This has to be low budget. I am working on getting a few more sponsors but is difficult. I get attention when I tell them It's a tax wright off, but then most back out anyway. Thanks for the time.

I was trying to do a new post, not a reply. I ment no disrespect. Not sure how to move it. Again I am sorry.
 
I have a 91 Plymouth Laser RS 2.0L N/T JDM engine. This car has been gutted out. 6 point cage installed. Window/glass lights and all street trim removed. No emissions on engine. The Haed was shaved just shy of it's maximum tolerance to help boost compression. The JDM engine has larger cams equiv to the 240 cams. I am estimating around 135 hp and 130 fp of torque. I run 185-60-14 DOT tires. This car is raced on a 3/10's oval race track. With a claim rule of $900. I built the car 3 years ago with $1,100. Just have maintained it and only replace parts as they break. The RPM range used is 4200 rpm in the corners and 6100 rpm by the end of the straights. Here is my problem. I am running against 160 +hp cars with larger engines and greater torque. I do pretty good out driving most of them if I don't make a mistake. My torque peak is at 4500 rpm so droping to 4200 rpm really bogs the car. If I lift for any reason I get passed. I have taken 3rd in points on the season 2 years running. This year I want a championship.

Question 1: Is there a Trans with a lower 3rd gear or diff gear that will help keep RPM's around 5000? I have the smallest tire I can find and run for 3rd. Bigger and 2nd doen't work, rpm's hit 7500 with 205's. Not making power.

Question 2: Is there a very low cost stroker due to the $900 claim rule I can put together To boost and widen my torque curve? Would like to get up to 160 Foot lbs.

Question 3: Is there any mods I can do to the 4G63 Engine to help get up to 160 F/lbs? Our class doesn't allow mods much so they need to be kept to a minimum. Most cars on the track are illegally modified hence the 3rd in points twice and cant get any better. And yes I can drive.

Question 4: If I can do a 2.3L 4G63, Will the Fuel, electronics, sensors and ecu be addiquate ti run such an engine?

I am going to pull the engine and so far my plans are to re-build it. I will bore it 0.040 (65mm), remove the balance shafts (kit) and am going to have the whole rotating assembly Balaced. I am just not sure this will be enough to get me to 160flbs? I am very smooth, quick and totally count on my driving. I need more engine/power so that I can lean on the car a little more and not worry about how to get rpm's back up if I should make a mistake. I am very machaniclly inclined. ASE certified and do Allot of performance builds of mostly domestic engines. This is the first car I have ever raced with a 4 cyl in it and the least amount of power I have been behind. So I do not know what mods, tricks or parts are out there for them. I am very frustrated to do so well and only to be beaten out by cheater (hopped up) cars. Any and all tips and knowlage would be great.
Please help me with this prob. And keep in mind This has to be low budget. I am working on getting a few more sponsors but is difficult. I get attention when I tell them It's a tax wright off, but then most back out anyway. Thanks for the time.

I was trying to do a new post, not a reply. I ment no disrespect. Not sure how to move it. Again I am sorry.




First off if you were mechanically inclined and ASE certified you would know that increasing power and torque on a 4cyl is no different than increasing power and torque on a v8 or any other configuration. A 4cyl runs on the same concepts that any other engine does, you will not be able to increase power and torque without A-increasing displacement/compression B-more rpm's C-more airflow D-some kind of power adder.

With that said i will attempt to answer your questions

Q1. Jacks Transmissions builds DSM trans with i believe evo3 5th gears?? could be a different evo gear im not really sure which one?!!? anyways its a TALLER evo gear for better gas mileage, i am guessing if he could do that he could also do other gears also.

Q2. yes i know there is a way to use the 4g64 block or the 4g64 crank to increase your displacement to a 2.4 but you will have to research more to be sure, but if theres a 900 claim rule are they really gonna take apart your engine to make sure you did not spend more than 900 on pistons and rods etc?

Q3.i already answered

Q4.if your gonna run a 2.3 n/a your ecu, injectors etc etc will be fine.

One more thing, if you are having issues with being out of the power band while racing, you can shift the torque/power curve and the peak torque higher or lower in the rpms with adjustable cam gears or different cams, you would think being ASE cert and doing a lot of performance builds you would know that?!?!
 
2.4. = bigger then 2.3/2.0 meaning more stroke always.

In the end, a 2.4 is always better.
 
First off if you were mechanically inclined and ASE certified you would know that increasing power and torque on a 4cyl is no different than increasing power and torque on a v8 or any other configuration. A 4cyl runs on the same concepts that any other engine does, you will not be able to increase power and torque without A-increasing displacement/compression B-more rpm's C-more airflow D-some kind of power adder.

With that said i will attempt to answer your questions

Q1. Jacks Transmissions builds DSM trans with i believe evo3 5th gears?? could be a different evo gear im not really sure which one?!!? anyways its a TALLER evo gear for better gas mileage, i am guessing if he could do that he could also do other gears also.

Q2. yes i know there is a way to use the 4g64 block or the 4g64 crank to increase your displacement to a 2.4 but you will have to research more to be sure, but if theres a 900 claim rule are they really gonna take apart your engine to make sure you did not spend more than 900 on pistons and rods etc?

Q3.i already answered

Q4.if your gonna run a 2.3 n/a your ecu, injectors etc etc will be fine.

One more thing, if you are having issues with being out of the power band while racing, you can shift the torque/power curve and the peak torque higher or lower in the rpms with adjustable cam gears or different cams, you would think being ASE cert and doing a lot of performance builds you would know that?!?!

Yes I do know Displ, Cams, larger valves, lobe angles, lobe sep, porting and even static compression ratios can be changed without even changing bore/pistons or cc's in the head, effect an engines perf. Also temp, berom pressure, humidity and under hood temp pending intake inlet location also effect this as well. You can change a cams lift and duration with just rocker arm ratio and geomatry. So yes I am ASE cert and do domestic perf builds. For instance Big/small block domestic engine as well "require" forged pistons and "full floating" wrist pins when Making hp levels above 550. Nos of any large amounts require flaking the forged pistons. As with a turbo or super charger, the lower the compression ratio the more you will "feel" the boost and keep from destroying the engine. once you hit 100 hp shot of NOS, for every 50hp above that you have to have 2 deg of timing retard. Your engine would be sluggish off the bottle with 6 degs of retard hence as to why they make electronics for that so you have normal timing off the bottle. My cam in my 468 chev is 254 deg dur (305 adver) at 50 on a 110 lobe sep with 612 lift ( using the 1.7:1 ratio rocker arms). Duration Is the time a valve is spent open in relation to crank rotation, Lobe sep is the degrees between your intake and exhaust center lines and of course lift is the distance a valve is lifted off it's seat. Roker arm ratio is part of what creates your total lift and is not all the cam lobe. Push rod engines require a shorter push rod when going from a 1.7:1 ratio to a 1.8:1 ratio rocker arm for geomatry and would change lift from 612 to 627 and create another 2 degs of duration. So yes I am ASE certified. So as to question of my ASE cert and ability, I hope that helps?

Now? where I buy my perf parts for domestic, you have VERY limited import parts if any. I have run this car for 3yrs now in "factory specs" except for the shaved head and being a JDM engine. So the "Types" of mods and the "tricks" and "procedures" are just a new thing for me and I was asking for help in that knowlage and parts locating. Just looking for a kind quik guide through with the import world, like I do with others when needing help in domestic apps. 4cyl engines will be just the same as 8cyl. If I choose to run a larger set of cam, compression will have to match dur, port vol int and exht, cam timing and such. That part I understand and will handle. Seems to me that you all have played with the little engines way more that I have and Is why I joined. As to pick your brains? Some how it seems to have offended you as to the snap of my ASE cert. If this is not the place for me to inquire information from who seemed to be rather keen in these areas, just say so and I'll move on. Thank you for your time respectfully.

The claim rule is if any given car wins 3 races in 5 consecutive or 4 top 3's in 5 your car can be claimed buy another driver/crew person for $900. This is why I do not want to pour thousands of dollars into this car and is why the claim rule is in place. To keep the cost of racing in this class down. So spending $1000 + on stroker part and $200 + 0n cam gears and $350 + on cams etc, etc, doesn't work. Larger cams are not the way to go cause as you raise dur your torque peak also moves up in the rpm range and would worsen my prob, unless I increase displacement. C.I.D. does effect torque in rpm ranges.
 
2.4. = bigger then 2.3/2.0 meaning more stroke always.

In the end, a 2.4 is always better.

2.3/2.0 is what I would like to do and is the only "real" way of increasing torque. For someone who has been through this. What costs are we talking about? Any leads on Good used parts? Low cost new parts? Discounted parts stores? My app is Non-turbo and looking only to build around 160-170 ft/lbs of torque, so I am not needing anything forged or on the killer side of high performance. RPM's are fairly low, 6100 Max. More stroke would help lower my torque peak with the same cams I am already running and increase torque figures.
 
2.3/2.0 is what I would like to do and is the only "real" way of increasing torque. For someone who has been through this. What costs are we talking about? Any leads on Good used parts? Low cost new parts? Discounted parts stores? My app is Non-turbo and looking only to build around 160-170 ft/lbs of torque, so I am not needing anything forged or on the killer side of high performance. RPM's are fairly low, 6100 Max. More stroke would help lower my torque peak with the same cams I am already running and increase torque figures.

if you want to purchase a new 2.3 kit its gonna run around $2000+ so i am assuming that is out of the question.

There is a couple ways to make a very cheap stroker kit. One would be to use the 4g64 block and rotating assembly with your 4g63 head that will give you a 2.4L . Another option is to put a 4g63 crank into a 4g64 block and that will give you a 2.2 or a 2.1L i am not sure.

There are many tech articles and posts on the matter of 2.4L strokers that will give you every detail you want to know ..... all you have to do is use the search button

better yet here you go i did it for you


http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420...-put-4g63-dohc-head-into-4g64-sohc-block.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/354522-4g64-2-4l-turbo-sohc-swap-dohc.html


http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/388318-2-0-vs-2-4l.html
 
OOOOOoOoOoO He told you ! But seriously this is supposed to be about which is better not who knows the most. LOL OP 2.4 is better

I know. I am sorry for that. Like I stated. I am a new member and was trying to post a new thread and posted here. I didn't mean any disrespect to this thread, board or the gentleman who started this post. Also just wanted to show I do know what I said and am ASE cert.

But on the plus side, this thread does help as well. I have been reading threads on here trying to decide what I want to do as for a low cost engine build. And knowing the pro's, con's and weak areas of different combos will help me through all of this. Like the 4G64 block with 4G63 head. I have learned that I don't want to go that route due to the timing belt and adjustable cam gears. I am not alowed to run adj cam gears in my class even if I can prove they are just to zero the cams. If I got tech'd i would be done. My points would be taken away, I would be 86'd for 2 races and have to pay a $500 fine to the track upon my return and pay $300 to be re-tech'd. So this has already helped me from spending money to find out later that I can't use it. Thank you to this board for that. Now pending cost, I'm looking into the 2.4 crank/2.0 block and head setup.
As it was so far, I was going to just bore my block 0.040 and balance my rotating assembly removing the balance shafts with an eliminator kit and buy a master rebuild kit. I know the increase in bore will up compression, but I don't think It will push me up in power where I need/want to be.

Master Kit cost is $285, balance of rotating assembly is $185 and machine shop is $160. So total cost is $630 for this 4G63 rebuild. If I can do a stroker some where in this ball park give a few hundred? I'd be able to do that. These are the areas I am needing help.

if you want to purchase a new 2.3 kit its gonna run around $2000+ so i am assuming that is out of the question.

There is a couple ways to make a very cheap stroker kit. One would be to use the 4g64 block and rotating assembly with your 4g63 head that will give you a 2.4L . Another option is to put a 4g63 crank into a 4g64 block and that will give you a 2.2 or a 2.1L i am not sure.

There are many tech articles and posts on the matter of 2.4L strokers that will give you every detail you want to know ..... all you have to do is use the search button

better yet here you go i did it for you


http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420...-put-4g63-dohc-head-into-4g64-sohc-block.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/354522-4g64-2-4l-turbo-sohc-swap-dohc.html


http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/388318-2-0-vs-2-4l.html

I can get a crank from a 4G64 used. Of course my machine shop would ceck for stress cracks. I can tell by looking at it if it was good, or turnable ( no way too deep groves in journals)
Are the rod/main journals the same diam as the 4G63 crank, or would they have to be turned down or +/- bearings be needed persay std/std?
What is the cost of a stroker set of pistons? can be Hyper or cast if they make them. As per my other post, I am already at $630 for the 4G63 build. If i could get a set of stroker pistons deleting the stock std cast 4G63 pistons for $200-$300 more give or take? This would be doable for sure.
 
More displacement is always better. There's alot of misconception in the domestic world because motors like the 383 stroker. I cringe when people take a good running 400 and take the crank out and toss the block. 383 vs 400 - Help for your Chevy - Community Forums our blocks and cranks are all the same material/design.

Does your car have power steering? you may be able to switch to manual rack(some cars came stock with them) and reduce some draw on the engine. depends on how much sawing at the wheel you are doing though, you'll have to turn the steering wheel a bit more to get the wheels to turn as much.
 
More displacement is always better. There's alot of misconception in the domestic world because motors like the 383 stroker. I cringe when people take a good running 400 and take the crank out and toss the block. 383 vs 400 - Help for your Chevy - Community Forums our blocks and cranks are all the same material/design.

Does your car have power steering? you may be able to switch to manual rack(some cars came stock with them) and reduce some draw on the engine. depends on how much sawing at the wheel you are doing though, you'll have to turn the steering wheel a bit more to get the wheels to turn as much.

Yes it has power steering. I don't do a whole lot of sawing, I am a pretty smooth driver. I have to be once I wind the car up so it stays there or due to the lack of torque below my peak I get passed. BUT. There are two races where if I hadn't had the power steering, I would have totaled my car instead of driving around the wrecks. With a split second to spare I don't think I could have pulled it off without it really. So I am convinced in keeping that part together. It is a great thought though? Thank you.

Yeah, they shouldn't toss the block. But mostly they (400 block) are not used cause of the siamese cylenders. They tend to run hotter and if not carefull over heat and destroy themselves.
 
What's sawing? Like jerking the wheel? I'm guessing that's a racer term cause you shouldnt be jerking a wheel dd ever right LOL.


2.4 is always a better platform in my opinion and most evo guys swear by it. The mods are cheap and the torque is there. More stroke.
 
What's sawing? Like jerking the wheel? I'm guessing that's a racer term cause you shouldnt be jerking a wheel dd ever right LOL.


2.4 is always a better platform in my opinion and most evo guys swear by it. The mods are cheap and the torque is there. More stroke.

Not really jerking, just moving the wheel back and fourth. Sometime times on a dirt track it gets rough. So I encounter bumpsteer at times. If you held the wheel tight as to not let it move it would upset the rear of the car causing it to swing to the left or right a little causing friction and slowing the car just a bit while trying to maintain control of it. If your right front tire hits a hole or a bump, and you let the steering wheel turn just a little as you go over that hole or bump then turn it straight again. It doest upset the car nearlly as much helping maintain the speed and direction of the car. Also even in a front wheel drive car when you go into the turn hot enough going to the left. I do at 80+ on DOT tires. The rear of the car swings out to the right. So to keep control of the car you do turn to the right while the rear of the car is lose. As it tightens up and starts to regain traction, you start turning more to the left. Bumpsteer also effects this allot and so to keep the car going the direction you want it to it requires sensing the track and sawing on the wheel as to not let the front wheels fight and upset the rear of the car. The better you can feness the wheel, the smoother your lap will be and you try to be better than the last lap every lap. And in this car I do not lift (take foot off the gas) at any time unless someone gets in trouble. It's W.O.T the whole race under green.

Anyone no if they make a cast stroker piston for the 2.3 build? I know they make a Hyper piston. and what parts houses do I look into? The parts stores around here are at a loss when it comes to 4 cyl parts. I have gotten no where with them at all.
 
whay nit just go with a 4g63t that you can get get a t a junk yard for 200..00buy a manual boost controller for 20.00 bucks off ebay a 2 maf and intake for like 30.00 and some evo 560 injectors for nomore the 40.00 ? Now you are way past ytour 150hp and have room to spare and can find all these used parts well under 900.00 $ !!!!
 
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