420a Stroker?

[napkinthief]

Does anyone have a kit for this or would it have to be pieced together seperately? I am going to rebuild my 420a after this turbo is up and running and I am want to start looking into different options.

Right now, I am thinking about getting a stage 2-3 head from slowboy, and putting in 8.8 wisecos with eagle rods. If there is a stroker, I would consider it, and see what the difference in price would be.

My goals are getting close to 250 before the rebuild. Then sell the turbo, get a 16g and get the old slow na up into the mid 300s. Along the way, my tranny will fall out on the highway, and I will change it to a 5-speed w/ LSD when it shits out on me. Some suspension work needs to be done soon too, at least alignment and stock shocks.

Yea so back to my question, how should I rebuild this engine? Figure about 15-17 psi daily. 22+ track.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Does anyone have a kit for this or would it have to be pieced together seperately?

Howell sells a 2.2L stroker kit for about $2,000.

Yea so back to my question, how should I rebuild this engine? Figure about 15-17 psi daily. 22+ track.

You're on the right track. 8.X:1 Pistons, forged rods, upgraded bearings, and some crank work wouldn't be a bad idea either (knife edging, nitride treatments, etc.)... The sky's the limit with the head. I would start with a simple port and polish, three or five angle valve job, new valve train components, and turbo grind cams.

If you add in new head studs, a MLS head gasket, and good maintenance, you should be ready for those boost levels... that is, provided your fuel and spark can handle it, but that's another thread.

 

[Blitzeclips]

howell sells the 2.2 complete block, but the head and everything is on you. Ive got the 2.2 stroker, wont know how it responds to boost for another month . after that, i can let you know as far as the rebuild goes, you should go the extra mile for everything. Figure, you want to anyways! Opt for the oversized valves also, they make a difference also.. just make sure you order VERY far in advance with Howell. Took them 14 weeks to build my motor.

 

[napkinthief]

Velo, good info thanks...how do you manage to be the first one in a LOT of threads to give the right info. Seems like a month ago I never even seen a post of yours, then outta nowhere you come out and you are a genious.

blitz, please keep me updated about the upgrade when you get it done. I guess 14 weeks is a long time, but when its something so expensive and important, it should be worth the wait. how much did you spend total with howell, shipping etc... I do plan on going as big as possible within my budget, which I still haven't set.

Theoretically, what kind of difference would I notice between a stroker and a regular rebuild with lower comp pistons. I would be getting ARP studs and the MLS gasket no question.

• SBR 5 Angle Competition Valve Job
• New Valve Stem Seals
• New Stainless Steel, Undercut Valves
• New Valve Guides
• Stock Springs and Retainers
• Fully Decked Head Surface

vs

• SBR 5 Angle Competition Valve Job
• SBR Stage II Port Work
• New Valve Stem Seals
• New Stainless Steel, Undercut Valves
• New Valve Guides
• Stock Springs and Retainers
• Fully Decked Head Surface


The first is 900 the second is 1100. Is the port work really worth the 200 for my goals or would the 200 be better spend elsewhere? For an extra hundred on top of that (1200 total) the stage 3 head is available with Stage 3 port work. I will contact sb with questions, but if I am going to pay 200 for some porting, an extra hundred for a complete port (assuming stage 3 port is a full port), would be a neccessity in my mind. I guess my question is to port or not to port?

 

[XMasta19]

of course you want to port...why do all this extra work and parts for more boost, and not even open up the runners anymore to help accomodate for all the air you'll be moving

 

[Blitzeclips]

Velo, good info thanks...how do you manage to be the first one in a LOT of threads to give the right info. Seems like a month ago I never even seen a post of yours, then outta nowhere you come out and you are a genious.

blitz, please keep me updated about the upgrade when you get it done. I guess 14 weeks is a long time, but when its something so expensive and important, it should be worth the wait. how much did you spend total with howell, shipping etc... I do plan on going as big as possible within my budget, which I still haven't set.



Theoretically, what kind of difference would I notice between a stroker and a regular rebuild with lower comp pistons. I would be getting ARP studs and the MLS gasket no question.

• SBR 5 Angle Competition Valve Job
• New Valve Stem Seals
• New Stainless Steel, Undercut Valves
• New Valve Guides
• Stock Springs and Retainers
• Fully Decked Head Surface

vs

• SBR 5 Angle Competition Valve Job
• SBR Stage II Port Work
• New Valve Stem Seals
• New Stainless Steel, Undercut Valves
• New Valve Guides
• Stock Springs and Retainers
• Fully Decked Head Surface


The first is 900 the second is 1100. Is the port work really worth the 200 for my goals or would the 200 be better spend elsewhere? For an extra hundred on top of that (1200 total) the stage 3 head is available with Stage 3 port work. I will contact sb with questions, but if I am going to pay 200 for some porting, an extra hundred for a complete port (assuming stage 3 port is a full port), would be a neccessity in my mind. I guess my question is to port or not to port?

No problem. Ill Keep you posted for sure. As far as money with Howell goes, probably about 1200 of head items(valves, cam gear, pulley, gasket set, studs, PT lifters and rockers, etc) then about 2200(stroked block)+300 (shipping). so overall, around 370 for the whole engine. This is all excluding drivetrain items, (LSD,Clutch, Flywheel). I

Looking at your list so far, Im going to say you may not even need valves guides depending on the head condition. regardless, I would get PT lcrusier lifters/rockers instead of stock ones. reason why is because you will want to boost w/ no concerns on blowing your motor. These lifters/rockers are stronger, and can handle the pressure Hp alot better then OEM. Im not sure the difference of SBR to other port jobs. I went to a local machine shop to do my head. This may actually be better for some because i could tell him exactly where and how i drive, instead of a portjob under specific guidelines. lastly, look into long rodded block. Its worth the money, and from what ive heard, responds MUCH beter to boost.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Velo, good info thanks...how do you manage to be the first one in a LOT of threads to give the right info.

I never leave my computer... seriously, it makes up for my lack of DSMs while I'm away from my car.

Seems like a month ago I never even seen a post of yours, then outta nowhere you come out and you are a genious.

Eh... I've been around, school just gets in the way sometimes. Thanks though.

of course you want to port...why do all this extra work and parts for more boost, and not even open up the runners anymore to help accomodate for all the air you'll be moving

I completely 100% agree.

• SBR 5 Angle Competition Valve Job
• New Valve Stem Seals
• New Stainless Steel, Undercut Valves
• New Valve Guides
• Stock Springs and Retainers
• Fully Decked Head Surface

Have you considered building the head yourself? I think you can get all those parts, plus a new set of cams for less than what SBR is willing to do for you. The actual work isn't terribly complicated and the only thing you'd have to outsource is the machine work (decking the head, valve job, etc.). Just something to think about...

If you do decide to go that route, alot of people are running PT Cruiser valvetrain components - they're relatively cheap, quality parts.

 

[napkinthief]

I am going to make a run down to the junkyard tommorrow see if I can find me a totaled 420a and a pt cruiser. What would I need to pull, obviously, the 420a engine, but off the cruiser? the whole engine, the head, what? I wouldn't mind doing the head work, would gimme something to do and seems like a good experience.

A concern though, would be if the engine is blown, overheated or whatever. Can you tell from the outside without actually opening it up? My local junkyard just paints a big red dot on the valve cover of engine that "dont work". They dont know whats wrong, they just know it wont turn on. My friend got a celica engine out, the engine was in tip top perfect shape, but it wasn't getting fuel, and he spent only 400 on it.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I am going to make a run down to the junkyard tommorrow see if I can find me a totaled 420a and a pt cruiser. What would I need to pull, obviously, the 420a engine, but off the cruiser? the whole engine, the head, what? I wouldn't mind doing the head work, would gimme something to do and seems like a good experience.

uh... You could do that. I meant just buy new parts from the dealer though. They're pretty cheap. Have you read Corbin's walk-through on overhauling the 420A? He used PT Cruiser parts, plus he just describes things well.

http://www.2gnt.com/www/corbin/rebuild.html

Go there ^^^. There's a list in it somewhere with all the parts, part numbers, quantities, and prices.

A concern though, would be if the engine is blown, overheated or whatever. Can you tell from the outside without actually opening it up?

Not really.

My local junkyard just paints a big red dot on the valve cover of engine that "dont work". They dont know whats wrong, they just know it wont turn on.

I wish the junkyards around here did that...

My friend got a celica engine out, the engine was in tip top perfect shape, but it wasn't getting fuel, and he spent only 400 on it.

But then again, I only spend $100 for a long block, working or not.

 

[wicked93GS]

you just need an 02 or older 2.4L block to bolt your head onto(I have done several 2.4L swaps in my neon, but never in a 420A eclipse) and a passenger side motor mount adapter...and depending on what 2.4 you get, a UDP pulley is required with the older JA oiling system, with a PT oiling system, no UDP is needed, 2.4s also come in sebrings, stratuses, cirruses, caravans, and breezes, for that matter, I have a 2.4L block(minus internals) sitting around right now I'm not using

 

[VelocitàPaola]

you just need an 02 or older 2.4L block to bolt your head onto(I have done several 2.4L swaps in my neon, but never in a 420A eclipse) and a passenger side motor mount adapter...and depending on what 2.4 you get, a UDP pulley is required with the older JA oiling system, with a PT oiling system, no UDP is needed, 2.4s also come in sebrings, stratuses, cirruses, caravans, and breezes, for that matter, I have a 2.4L block(minus internals) sitting around right now I'm not using

Well if you're gonna go that route, I recommend 2GNT as a resource; there isn't much about the 2.4L swap on Tuners. Getting the 2.4L, though, would probably be less expensive, and less of wait, than going through Howell. I just think there's much more work involved this way.

Here's at least one good article about it...
http://www.2gnt.com/nuke/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=18

wicked93GS, you should do a write-up, or at least start a thread, about swapping the 2.4L for the 2.0L. Many people on 2GNT say its too complicated to get involved with. I'm sure many of us would like to know exactly what is needed to do the swap (i.e. which parts are compatible and which aren't).

 

[Talon ESI-T]

IF you want to look into the 2.4L swap you need to consider what resources you have available. The 2.4L is much simpler if you buy a neon but why in gods green earth would you want to do that to yourself..

The Passenger side mount is strictly custom made, no one makes a kit. When I finish mine later in spring I plan to make a Jig and sell them but that is a while away since I dont even have time to assemble the shortblock or even pick it up. Its at a friends house.

The oil pan has to be cut and fabricated to fit the exhaust and downpipe ect.

If you dont want to go through all this then your only option is the 2.2L howell kit. If your buying the howell bottom i highly recommend the howell head to compliment it.

Terry

 

[napkinthief]

I am considering between 2.4 and 2.2 right now. So far I got the 2.4 would be less expensive, more do it yourself, and I presume some more power. The 2.2 would simply be a drop in if I get the whole thing from Howell. What kind of power differences would I notice from 2.0 2.2 and 2.4? Also with a 2.4 I could hit higher rpms? I am doing as much research as I could find on this subject, its really hard on this forum, and the 2gnt forum and my computer don't go well together. It always locks up my browser, I even tried using firefox.

 

[Blitzeclips]

given the displacement .... 2.2= 10% more power over 2.0L 2.4=20% over 2.0L these arent actual facts ,im just giving you a rough estimate based on their size differences.

 

[dr1665]

given the displacement .... 2.2= 10% more power over 2.0L 2.4=20% over 2.0L these arent actual facts ,im just giving you a rough estimate based on their size differences.

It's not a rough estimate. It's merely stating the increase in displacement, which gives insight into engine potential, but not actual power. There is more to learn about this subject. The Howell 2.2 stroker is a "small" 2.2 and, as with all stroker engines, there is the chance of a suboptimal rod ratio when you're done, so do some research before you make your final decision.

 

[napkinthief]

Ok going by the displacement of the engine, stock is 140 hp.
2.2 would be 10% more, therefore 154 hp.
The 2.4 would be 20% more, therefore 168 hp.
This is all based on if the compression remains at 9.6:1
For each point lost in compression, you lose approx. 4% hp.
To turbo, you need to go below the 8.9 compression mark, to make things easy, we will do 8.6:1.
So a 2.2 would be 154 - 4% = 147.84 hp
And a 2.4 would be 161.28 hp
If boost on average, adds 8 hp per psi, and a rebuild engine with 8.6 compression can hold 20 psi on a good tune, here are some final values.

Displacement
Boost HP (estimated)

2.0 134
10psi 214
15psi 254
20psi 294

2.2 147
10 psi 227
15 psi 267
20 psi 307

2.4 161
10 psi 241
15 psi 281
20 psi 321



According to this formula, at 20 psi, there would be a 27 hp gain by going the 2.4 route over the stock 2.0, and a 14 hp gain over going the 2.2 route. This would be a good race setting, but for a daily driver, 15 psi is more common. A 2.0 would have 254 hp, while a 2.2 would have 267, a gain of 13 hp by .2 extra displacement. A 2.4 would have 281, a gain of 27 hp.



This is all by theory, if anyone has any proof that it can be wrong, please let me know so I can change the results.