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420A 420a starter help…. Weird one here.

DSM newbie

Probationary Member
12
0
Mar 26, 2021
Gainesville, Florida
Hey everyone,

so I rebuilt my 420a dropped the engine back in the car and am trying to prime everything with oil before I start it. The issue I’m having is power to the starter solenoid from the starter switch. When the clutch is pushed it sends 12v to the solenoid telling it it’s good to crank. I weird issue I’m having is the post that the wire sits on the solenoid is not showing 12v when the clutch is pushed in. It doesn’t show anything on the multimeter. But when I disconnect the wire and test it is has over 12v like it should. I reattach the wire and nothing again… I know the starter works because I can put a direct 12v wire on the post and it cranks. It just won’t crank with the factory wire that has 12v when disconnected and nothing when connected LOL can anyone help me with this? Or does anyone have a fix?

Thanks again!
I can send pictures if need be to explain cause it doesn’t make sense to me either LOL
 

dustyboner

DSM Wiseman
1,652
783
Mar 13, 2016
abq, New_Mexico
are you sure your messing with the right switch? there are 2. the clutch pedal position switch and the clutch interlock switch. one is for starting the other is to deactivate the cruise control when the clutch is pushed in.
i couldn't tell you which is which. the factory service manual even mixes them up.
the clutch section of the manual shows its the interlock switch but the electrical diagrams show its the clutch pedal position switch.

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dustyboner

DSM Wiseman
1,652
783
Mar 13, 2016
abq, New_Mexico
the starter relay is normally closed. the clutch switch is also nomally closed. so when you turn on the key, power goes to the relay coil, thru the clutch switch and to ground. activating the relay. since the relay is normally closed, activating it opens the contacts preventing power from flowing to the starter solenoid.
if you unplug the clutch switch it will allow you to start the car without pushing in the clutch pedal
 

DSM newbie

Probationary Member
12
0
Mar 26, 2021
Gainesville, Florida
Thanks guys for the responses! So my issue lies right at the starter. When I test the signal wire from the starter relay it works perfect right at 12.05v, when I push in the clutch like it is supposed to. But when I put that same wire actually on the starter and try to start with the clutch pushed in nothing happens and I don’t get a reading on the multimeter (0v) it’s super weird.. there is no strain on the wire and I don’t see any broken wires where it would short but I’m probably going to have to run new wire to rule that out in case it’s shorting or something… I’m not sure.
 

DSM newbie

Probationary Member
12
0
Mar 26, 2021
Gainesville, Florida
One thing to do is definitely check all the grounds. When I tried to start my engine for the first time everything worked except the starter, I forgot to re-attach the ground strap that connects to one of the transmission bolts.
I did that three times. I even cleaned the grounds to make sure they were bare metal. Thanks for the suggestion!
 

dustyboner

DSM Wiseman
1,652
783
Mar 13, 2016
abq, New_Mexico
unplug the rear clutch switch, its the one with the white connector and try and start it.
if it doesn't start
unplug the starter relay, on the connector jump either of the (black/red) wires to the (black/yellow) wire. then turn the key on and try to start it.
 

DSM newbie

Probationary Member
12
0
Mar 26, 2021
Gainesville, Florida
unplug the rear clutch switch, its the one with the white connector and try and start it.
if it doesn't start
unplug the starter relay, on the connector jump either of the (black/red) wires to the (black/yellow) wire. then turn the key on and try to start it.
I have seen all the posts with the starter relay and jumping it. I have also seen the one on the clutch switch. I don’t think I have any issue with those since I am getting a 12v+ signal to the wire that connects to the starter. So when I take the wire off the starter it gets 12v with the key on and clutch pushed in like it should but when I connect the wire with the nut onto the post of the starter and turn the key and push the clutch it doesn’t get a signal. No volts at all.
If it was one of the relays or switches it wouldn’t work at all whether the wire was attached to the starter or not, correct?
 

dustyboner

DSM Wiseman
1,652
783
Mar 13, 2016
abq, New_Mexico
okay i get it now. I can't even think of anyway that could happen.
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what i would do is keep the wire connected at the solenoid and unplug the sub-connector (circled in green). Then when its getting 12v with the key on and clutch pushed in, i would reconnect the sub-connector. If it doesn't turnover as soon as its reconnected, id say f*** this shit and i'd wire up a new 30A relay, a momentary switch or push to start button to activate it and run a new wire from the relay to the solenoid.
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DSM newbie

Probationary Member
12
0
Mar 26, 2021
Gainesville, Florida
okay i get it now. I can't even think of anyway that could happen.
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what i would do is keep the wire connected at the solenoid and unplug the sub-connector (circled in green). Then when its getting 12v with the key on and clutch pushed in, i would reconnect the sub-connector. If it doesn't turnover as soon as its reconnected, id say f*** this shit and i'd wire up a new 30A relay, a momentary switch or push to start button to activate it and run a new wire from the relay to the solenoid.
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So I did that and it didn’t crank. This is a new starter so I also have my old one. I had 12v to the main post, had it grounded and had a jumper cable from the 12v to the s connector. The starter worked like that.
So I went and used the signal wire instead of the jumper cable from the starter relay (which I tested at 12v) while turning the key as soon as I touched the post on the starter it would read 0.01v. I would take the signal wire off and it would read 12v again. It is doing this with both starters… so it is something with the actual connector to the post that’s making it drop voltage. Any ideas?
 
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