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420A 2gNT high rpm no acceleration

Ethenp23

Proven Member
132
6
Jun 24, 2021
Midland tx, Texas
I have a 95 talon esi (420) and am dealing with this weird rpm hesitation every time I go on a drive it drives fine but when I come to a stop then go it revs all the way up to like 7k and barely acceleration then eventually it gets up to speed what causes this ?
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
8,125
2,691
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
No. If you're not moving I doubt your rpms would rise that high. Almost sounds like more than 1 problem. If you have a brake problem you could recreate it just by seeing if the car rolls.
 

Ethenp23

Proven Member
132
6
Jun 24, 2021
Midland tx, Texas
No. If you're not moving I doubt your rpms would rise that high. Almost sounds like more than 1 problem. If you have a brake problem you could recreate it just by seeing if the car rolls.
After multiple stop and goes eventually my car won’t even roll it will stay in place like it’s in park it won’t move until I press the gas
 

Ethenp23

Proven Member
132
6
Jun 24, 2021
Midland tx, Texas
If it does this in neutral go look at the brakes again

What do you mean? Like should I put it in neutral and see if it rolls?

There was also a time when, as I mentioned, it wouldn’t go until I pressed on the gas. Well I was going up a small incline going from a stop, i let of the brake to then go and notice my car was rolling back on the incline. I wasn’t in neutral or reverse, I was in drive and proceeded to press the gas to stop myself from rolling back.

I was also considering clogged fuel injectors because ever since it started happening my fuel economy is terrible now
 
Last edited by a moderator:

steve

DSM Wiseman
14,580
1,470
Feb 3, 2002
Boulder, Colorado
I was also considering clogged fuel injectors because ever since it started happening my fuel economy is terrible now

You seem to be bouncing off the walls. Easy to do when your frustrated but never helps.

First question should be does your car move freely. So, put the car in neutral on a flat surface and see if you can push it around. Do it again every time you are in a safe spot and the car is acting up. If the car rolls it's not a problem with brakes holding the car back.

Second question should be why are the RPM's going up but the car isn't moving. If this was a manual you would starting looking for a clutch slipping or power being routed to some place other than moving the wheels. On an Automatic the torque converter does that coupling. If your engine RPMs are going up but the car speed isn't then something is slipping.

Third remote question is does it seem like the engine isn't developing the normal power? Is it running rough when this is happening?

The trick to diagnosing a problem is come up with a set of questions and then go about checking to answer them. Try to stay focused and don't go changing more than one thing at a time or you'll never know what was really wrong.
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
8,125
2,691
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
What do you mean? Like should I put it in neutral and see if it rolls?

There was also a time when, as I mentioned, it wouldn’t go until I pressed on the gas. Well I was going up a small incline going from a stop, i let of the brake to then go and notice my car was rolling back on the incline. I wasn’t in neutral or reverse, I was in drive and proceeded to press the gas to stop myself from rolling back.
Get it on a hill, put it in neutral, apply the brakes then let off. It should immediately roll. If it doesn't your brakes are sticking.
I don't think this is your problem. You may still have this but I think it would be in addition to something else. I would follow steves advise. You're all over the place.
Is there a check engine light?
 

Ethenp23

Proven Member
132
6
Jun 24, 2021
Midland tx, Texas
I would follow steves advise. You're all over the place.
Is there a check engine light?

No check engine light and it’s been going on for 4 weeks now also

You seem to be bouncing off the walls. Easy to do when your frustrated but never helps.

First question should be does your car move freely. So, put the car in neutral on a flat surface and see if you can push it around. Do it again every time you are in a safe spot and the car is acting up. If the car rolls it's not a problem with brakes holding the car back.

Second question should be why are the RPM's going up but the car isn't moving. If this was a manual you would starting looking for a clutch slipping or power being routed to some place other than moving the wheels. On an Automatic the torque converter does that coupling. If your engine RPMs are going up but the car speed isn't then something is slipping.

Third remote question is does it seem like the engine isn't developing the normal power? Is it running rough when this is happening?

The trick to diagnosing a problem is come up with a set of questions and then go about checking to answer them. Try to stay focused and don't go changing more than one thing at a time or you'll never know what was really wrong.

I tested the brakes and they are not sticking I did as you mentioned now as I rev it to get it moving then let off the gas the rpm’s drop stupid fast?

And my bad about going every were with this but it’s pissing me off. I’ve looked after just about everything and also my idle at park is so perfect it doesn’t move a single bit perfect idle
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BLACK'98DSM

Proven Member
3,557
1,266
Feb 9, 2019
Alabama
So at this point we've narrowed it down to something between the flex plate and the axles (whether the torque convertor or something internally in the trans).

It's possible that the torque convertor is not stalling properly. I don't usually see them bad enough to allow 7k rpm before vehicle movement. And especially not without any earlier signs of wear. But it is possible.

As for internal issues. It could range from clutches to the diff to the valve body, or even all 3.

Here's a test for the torque convertor. Hold the gas and brake at the same time in drive. Hold the brake hard enough for the car to stay completely still and just slightly ease into the gas pedal. Once it revs to approximately 2k it should be trying to move forward (not sure exactly for auto 2gnt). That's called the stall point of the torque convertor. If it just revs way up without attempting to move the car, you've either got a bad torque convertor or the trans is slipping very badly and needs to be rebuilt.

Also make sure drive is engaging, and not just revving in neutral before drive engages
 

Ethenp23

Proven Member
132
6
Jun 24, 2021
Midland tx, Texas
So at this point we've narrowed it down to something between the flex plate and the axles (whether the torque convertor or something internally in the trans).

It's possible that the torque convertor is not stalling properly. I don't usually see them bad enough to allow 7k rpm before vehicle movement. And especially not without any earlier signs of wear. But it is possible.

As for internal issues. It could range from clutches to the diff to the valve body, or even all 3.

Here's a test for the torque convertor. Hold the gas and brake at the same time in drive. Hold the brake hard enough for the car to stay completely still and just slightly ease into the gas pedal. Once it revs to approximately 2k it should be trying to move forward (not sure exactly for auto 2gnt). That's called the stall point of the torque convertor. If it just revs way up without attempting to move the car, you've either got a bad torque convertor or the trans is slipping very badly and needs to be rebuilt.

Also make sure drive is engaging, and not just revving in neutral before drive engages

Damn, I will try this tomorrow. I’m just trying to not spend so much money on the car. I have the money to rebuild it but which it case what if it isn’t the problem? Now I have a rebuilt tranny and it still runs like garbo
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sirius1995

Proven Member
127
21
Jun 15, 2021
Hattiesburg, Mississippi
I tested the brakes and they are not sticking I did as you mentioned now as I rev it to get it moving then let off the gas the rpm’s drop stupid fast ??? And my bad about going every were with this but it’s pissing me off I’ve looked after just about everything and also my idle at park is so perfect it doesn’t move a single bit perfect idle
sounds like a faulty turbine to me or aka, torquer converter. won't build up pressure
 

Ethenp23

Proven Member
132
6
Jun 24, 2021
Midland tx, Texas
sounds like a faulty turbine to me or aka, torquer converter. won't build up pressure

Yeah maybe, it only acts like shit when the cars up to temp also

So at this point we've narrowed it down to something between the flex plate and the axles (whether the torque convertor or something internally in the trans).

It's possible that the torque convertor is not stalling properly. I don't usually see them bad enough to allow 7k rpm before vehicle movement. And especially not without any earlier signs of wear. But it is possible.

As for internal issues. It could range from clutches to the diff to the valve body, or even all 3.

Here's a test for the torque convertor. Hold the gas and brake at the same time in drive. Hold the brake hard enough for the car to stay completely still and just slightly ease into the gas pedal. Once it revs to approximately 2k it should be trying to move forward (not sure exactly for auto 2gnt). That's called the stall point of the torque convertor. If it just revs way up without attempting to move the car, you've either got a bad torque convertor or the trans is slipping very badly and needs to be rebuilt.

Also make sure drive is engaging, and not just revving in neutral before drive engages

Okay so I’m making time for the torque converter to get fixed professionally. If that doesn’t fix it then I’ll get the tranny rebuilt still if running like crap my have to sell and be done with it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sirius1995

Proven Member
127
21
Jun 15, 2021
Hattiesburg, Mississippi
Okay so I’m making time for the torque converter to get fix professionally if it doesn’t fix it then I’ll get the tranny rebuilt still if running like crap my have to sell and be done with it
you could buy a used one and if it works, then rebuild
 

Ethenp23

Proven Member
132
6
Jun 24, 2021
Midland tx, Texas
D
Okay so I’m making time for the torque converter to get fix professionally if it doesn’t fix it then I’ll get the tranny rebuilt still if running like crap my have to sell and be done with it
Does anyone know how long you can drive on a messed up torque converter?
 

Ethenp23

Proven Member
132
6
Jun 24, 2021
Midland tx, Texas
Until it dies...

Honestly it sounds like you should park the car now. It could be a safety hazard on the road to you and others.

Bro omfg I just left school for lunch and it was shifting so perfectly like what the f*** dude why is it acting perfect now

I would also like to mention the problem goes away when I turn my car off and turn it back on
 
Last edited by a moderator:

motomattx

Proven Member
3,707
1,455
Dec 9, 2010
wampum, Pennsylvania
I wouldn't go jumping to conclusions on this issue, I have rarely seen a stock converter go bad, especially on a stock non turbo car, the 420a transmission had issues with the shift solenoid pack as it is, the problem could be there, it acting up only sometimes and working fine after a restart is what those can do when they fail.
 

Sirius1995

Proven Member
127
21
Jun 15, 2021
Hattiesburg, Mississippi
I wouldn't go jumping to conclusions on this issue, I have rarely seen a stock converter go bad, especially on a stock non turbo car, the 420a transmission had issues with the shift solenoid pack as it is, the problem could be there, it acting up only sometimes and working fine after a restart is what those can do when they fail.
it doesn't explain why it's not accelerating like it should, shift solenoid is pretty much just for shifting
 

motomattx

Proven Member
3,707
1,455
Dec 9, 2010
wampum, Pennsylvania
it doesn't explain why it's not accelerating like it should, shift solenoid is pretty much just for shifting
Not on that transmission, that pack also controls the line pressures and you never said if your car is shifting or if its staying in first gear or if its shifting, if its running in first gear, I can see it revving to 7k and not going anywhere, so is it shifting or not? a video of it acting up would be great.
 
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Ethenp23

Proven Member
132
6
Jun 24, 2021
Midland tx, Texas
Not on that transmission, that pack also controls the line pressures and you never said if your car is shifting or if its staying in first gear or if its shifting, if its running in first gear, I can see it revving to 7k and not going anywhere, so is it shifting or not? a video of it acting up would be great.
You know what it might actually be my shift solenoid. I just got off the phone with my buddy Troy, that’s been doing transmission work on cars for 20 years, he told me he highly doubts its the torque converter. I told him my symptoms and ruled out that it’s not my tranny or torque converter. I will be having him take my car for a spin today to see what he thinks. I will mention that I also think it could be the shift solenoid and will see what he thinks.

I’ll get back to you guys as soon as I get information on what’s going on.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sirius1995

Proven Member
127
21
Jun 15, 2021
Hattiesburg, Mississippi
You know what it might actually be my shift solenoid I just got off the phone with my buddy Troy that’s been doing transmission work on cars for 20 years he told me he highly doubts its the torque converter I told him my symptoms and ruled out that it’s not my tranny or torque converter and I also will be having him take my car for a spin today to see what he thinks I will mention that I also think it could be the shift solenoid and will see what he thinks I’ll get back to you guys as soon as I get information on what’s going on
it's always the best when someone actually can take a look, it's night and day to assume something through the text than see it in person
 

Ethenp23

Proven Member
132
6
Jun 24, 2021
Midland tx, Texas
it's always the best when someone actually can take a look, it's night and day to assume something through the text than see it in person

Yeah I’ll just relay the information to you guys once I get it and it is better for someone experienced to test drive it and see wassup

Does anyone know what the shift solenoid looks like or were it’s located 420a
 
Last edited by a moderator:

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
9,279
5,074
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
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