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2G 2g with a dog box

Posted by Brandonjffrs96, Mar 18, 2020

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  1. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

    72
    12
    Joined Nov 2, 2019
    Bronson, Michigan
    ive been doing some research and was thinking that i might consider a dog box for my gsx. i should be making 600 all wheel horsepower or a little over and was curious if a dog box is even worth it at this power lever? i do plan on making this mostly a drag car which ill drive on special occasions. im really looking to run low 10's but would love to run any 9 which the box could definitely help with. is the box worth it? if so whats the best brand/company? i see theres several out there. if its not worth it then whats the best option for my trans at this power level?
     

    Road Race Build 273  8

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  2. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

    2,324
    969
    Joined Dec 9, 2010
    wampum, Pennsylvania
    If your racing it mostly then yes a dog box is the way to go unless you like replacing hard to find transmissions for fun, PPG is one of the better companies out there.

    https://www.ppgearbox.com/
     

    Drag Race Build 4K  24

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  3. josh408

    josh408 Proven Member

    402
    76
    Joined Jan 29, 2011
    Bay Area, California
    I would say yes it's worth it, plus there isn't much options for us anymore as most parts far our transmissions are discontinued. You're really left with not much options. After you go dogbox though then your next weak link would be transfer case, then axles, you see where I'm going with this. So yea, dogbox setup would be good but make sure you also strengthen other areas as well which can get really costly. Even I'm struggling trying to maintain a solid transmission and I'm only at 400whp. :beatentodeath:
     

    Street Build 4K  4

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    11.935 @ 118.24 · 2G DSM
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  4. dexterholland04

    dexterholland04 Proven Member

    644
    97
    Joined Jan 1, 2007
    Rush, New York
    You would be looking at purchasing a $7500-$8000 transmission once you're done. You could find one used, but they only pop up once in a while. My suggestion is just run a stock/refreshed transmission. Make sure you're running a good clutch (I preferred the Quartermaster Twins), and MAKE SURE IT IS ADJUSTED PROPERLY. Weight is the biggest killer of transmissions in these cars. If you strip the car down (if you can live with that), then it will certainly help. I made many 10 second passes on a 130k mile, bone stock transmission. Bone stock transfer case, and rear end. All I did was change the fluids every season. Having shift stops on your shifter will also help you from over-extending and breaking the shift forks too.
     
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  5. Steve93Talon

    Steve93Talon Proven Member

    1,465
    104
    Joined Jan 20, 2005
    Philly Burbs, Pennsylvania
    Up to 550 ft/lbs - stock trans with 4 spider or welded diff, billet/evo forks, double synchros, and the early/evo gears. Maybe faceplated gears if you want the fastest shifts. Spend the money on t-case, driveshaft, axles, weight reduction etc first. Also take a look at Boostin's billet bearing housing and 300m output shaft. Run slicks, learn how to preload on the launch and be smooth and fast on shifts. Twin disc has drawbacks and isn't completely necessary at that level, I'd reserve that for higher power or a drag only car myself.

    Over that, PPG or auto.
     

    Drag Race Build 1K  24

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    369.5 whp · 403.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM

    2K  7

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi
    11.784 @ 115.120 · 1G DSM
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  6. jakelandry

    jakelandry Proven Member

    837
    105
    Joined Oct 13, 2009
    Minden, Louisiana
    There’s a lot more expense to a dog box than the sticker price. Any other weak part in the drivetrain can cause damage to the gearset which is 5000 alone. Grenade a diff or lock up a transfer case and you risk gearset damage. After you add up all the optional parts in a dog box package that increase reliability it’s right at 10k for just the trans.

    If you take it a step further it’s 13-14k to cover the trans, a stronger transfer case, twin disk, front diff, potential driveshaft if you get a 300m transfer case, 300m trans shaft, billet bearing housing, and a surprising amount of time and money in shipping big parts back and fourth. You could spend 8k on a base dogbox and be perfectly fine for hundreds of 8 second passes or you could grenade a corresponding part on the first pass and destroy a $5,000 gearset and be right back where you started.

    Please note that I am obviously not a transmission expert but I have personally dealt with the hassle of the above and it is a tiring process.
     

    4K  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    11.410 @ 125.490 · 2G DSM
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  7. Lou98GSX

    Lou98GSX Proven Member

    677
    56
    Joined Mar 13, 2004
    Carmel, New York
    i had my trans done with a 4 spider center diff and a limited front diff like 15 years ago by TRE and they did a good job but about 2 months a go my 3rd gear shattered . not blaming them or myself cause all i did was downshift to 3rd and hit the gas . now i had my trans rebuilt by jacks with heavy duty gears and they did a great job . as you know 3rd gear in these trans is very week . hope this time it stays together .
     
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  8. Talon96fwd

    Talon96fwd Proven Member

    198
    29
    Joined Apr 11, 2011
    Alexandria, Virginia
    I made over 600hp and have been threw at least 6 transmissions. I’m currently running a jacks trans with early 90’s 3-4 gears. All the gears was treated and shot peened. Went to the track and ran a 11.8 at 129mph. Didn’t launch my car and missed 3rd gear LOL. Hope this helps.
     

    1K  0

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi
    14.184 @ 104.365 · 2G DSM
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  9. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

    72
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    Joined Nov 2, 2019
    Bronson, Michigan
    so what you are saying is for about 15k or a little less i could have a dogbox t case and axel clutch etc? that wont break? anything else that i would have to consider changing? i plan on keeping the car for the rest of my life so 15k to never have to worry about a t case trans and axle is kinda worth it. especially if it cuts my 1/4 down a full second or so. like i said id love to run any 9 second pass and would love to do it safely and consistently. so what else would be a factor for this goal? money isnt a huge issue but i dont wanna go over 25-30k on the car total. im only at around 10k with wheels tires and other small parts that i have yet to install (price is including the price of the car). so i still have a decent amount that im willing to drop on the car.
     

    Road Race Build 273  8

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  10. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

    72
    12
    Joined Nov 2, 2019
    Bronson, Michigan
    have you ever taken it to the track since? if so what was your best time? gsx or gst? 600ish wheel is my power goal but if i cant run consistent 10's then i might have to consider a higher hp goal. also what rods and pistons are you running? i was thinking eagle or h tuff rods with 9:1cp pistons. fp black but might go with the red.
     

    Road Race Build 273  8

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  11. Brandonjffrs96

    Brandonjffrs96 Proven Member

    72
    12
    Joined Nov 2, 2019
    Bronson, Michigan
    what stage t case from boostin would you recommend?
     

    Road Race Build 273  8

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  12. Ben-Stian

    Ben-Stian Proven Member

    129
    29
    Joined Aug 23, 2006
    NORWAY, Europe
    The stock 4th gear will not hold at 550 ft/lbs... I have broken several 4th gears with less tq... That is with added preload at bearings as well...
     
  13. Steve93Talon

    Steve93Talon Proven Member

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    Joined Jan 20, 2005
    Philly Burbs, Pennsylvania
    My apologies, we were only at 543.7 ft/lbs for years. And I used that as the cut-off because most people below that would rather spend $200 a year on a stock trans than $6-8k on a dogbox.

    Tort362.jpg
     

    Drag Race Build 1K  24

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    369.5 whp · 403.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM

    2K  7

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi
    11.784 @ 115.120 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
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  14. Steve93Talon

    Steve93Talon Proven Member

    1,465
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    Joined Jan 20, 2005
    Philly Burbs, Pennsylvania
    I'd defer to what they recommend, but just the 300m output shaft and the Magnus cap would be plenty for most. You will need the DSS driveshaft with the bigger yoke to go with it, too.
     

    Drag Race Build 1K  24

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    369.5 whp · 403.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM

    2K  7

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi
    11.784 @ 115.120 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
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  15. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

    4,525
    1,074
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    At 600hp, a stock tcase will live fine if you can drive. Even a rebuilt stock trans will last decently. My car has all stock driveline, and I went 9.80's at 144 with a liberty faceplated box. That trans lasted about a season. Now the car has a ppg and the rest is all stock. I've made a bunch of 9.90's since then. It's 3200lbs as well. I finally broke a tcase this fall, after 5 seasons of abuse, it ended up stripping the gears, not breaking the output shaft.

    The number 1 thing I can say is do not over clutch the car. With a stock mitsu gear-set and 600hp, this means no more than 500ft*lbs, or something like an ACT2100/act puck disc. Any of the twins out there have way way too much torque capacity. If that's what you want you need to special order it with the lightest spring they have. 700ft*lbs of clutch for an engine that makes less than 500 is DUMB. Currently I'm running an XTD stage 4 pressure plate with an ACT 6 puck disc. It holds 750hp and 550 ft*lbs with no problems. The xtd stage 4 has the same clamp load as the 3 oem mitsu pressure plates and 1 act 2100 I have measured.

    Just remember something has to slip. clutch, tires, or driveline parts, and the fastest clutch cars in the world slip the clutch.
     

    Showcar Build 6K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon N/T
    9.805 @ 144.00 · 1G DSM
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  16. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

    4,525
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    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    Also if you want a built t-case there are many other places doing them besides boostin. All you really need is the 300m output shaft upgrade. Anything else is a waste of money. The fully done up stage infinity tcases can be broke, and then you are out that much more. Even the $2500 magnus gears are not infallible.
     

    Showcar Build 6K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon N/T
    9.805 @ 144.00 · 1G DSM
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  17. jakelandry

    jakelandry Proven Member

    837
    105
    Joined Oct 13, 2009
    Minden, Louisiana
    ^ From the mouth of someone who speaks from experience rather than word of internet mouth.

    Spec’ing out clutches has always been tricky to me. In practice it sounds simple but it’s hard to get a clutch that slips “some“ in 3rd or 4th because from my experience after you light it up one good time in 3rd it’s toast. You can slip the clutch on launch and even kind of in second but it isn’t the same a stretching out 3rd and 4th. You can’t control the pressure plate over a 4 second period so you’re at the mercy of the clamping friction.
     

    4K  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    11.410 @ 125.490 · 2G DSM
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  18. OH91awd

    OH91awd Proven Member

    802
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    Joined Sep 22, 2011
    chillicothe, Ohio
    @mikEclipse99 has went 9.6 on a stock trans i do believe. he can verify that im sure.
     

    Drag Race Build 2K  17

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.89 @ 125.67 · 1G DSM
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  19. Ben-Stian

    Ben-Stian Proven Member

    129
    29
    Joined Aug 23, 2006
    NORWAY, Europe
    That is impressive for the stock 4th gear. I have destroyed several with less tq and so has a lot of other people:) I personally dont think 550 ft/lbs are a safe limit for the 4th gear.
    You can also setup a boost table to limit boost/tq only in 4th gear. I used that for a while until I went for straight cut gear.
     
  20. mikEclipse99

    mikEclipse99 Proven Member

    281
    386
    Joined May 9, 2008
    Medina, Ohio
    yessir, and a 160 mph trap. But I do not advise it as you'll constantly shred through transmissions!

    *100% stock transmission just welding the center diff, 615 ft lbs torque on a mustang dyno
     

    4K  25

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.626 @ 156.83 · 2G DSM
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  21. LumpyVR4

    LumpyVR4 Supporting Member

    55
    23
    Joined May 21, 2014
    Sydney, Australia
    Check out PAR engineering. There are synchro mesh or dog mesh gears. They are an Aussie company which is good for you because at the moment the Aussie dollar is only worth 60c.
     

    Street Build 477  6

    1990 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4

    Street Build 2K  0

    1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4
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  22. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

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    Joined Mar 12, 2004
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Then be smart and buy a proper gearset that is obtainable and proven. PPG.
     

    Drag Race Build 8K  12  76

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    9.499 @ 155.00 · 2G DSM
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  23. DSMReviver

    DSMReviver Proven Member

    815
    74
    Joined Mar 4, 2008
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    I agree with Tim, PAR is hard to communicate with but I do want to see their gearset put into real high power use. I have never actually seen their revised version -of their dog set- taken to the limit. The older dog gear design wasn't so good but improvements have been made since 2013; 1 piece design, evo input shaft, and better heat treatment etc... Their gears are a lot better then pre 2013 design.

    I actually have their dog set 1-4 with spider center and my intention is to put it though the pace when my car is up and running again. It will have 1000hp at least and will be driven on and off the track.

    I am confident the new gears will be just fine but the stigma still remain. I wouldn't be afraid to run one if you can get ahold of one. PPG cost goes way up if you add the optional spider center and 5th gear. That is why I went with PAR. I am just not afraid to run them, they will be much better than your stock gears for sure and you don't have to baby it. You are playing with fire if you have a stock box and making more than stock power. My stock transmission lasted up to 500hp before it broke. Anything would be better than a stock box and plus no more parts from mitsu.
     
    DSMReviver

    1K  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM

    Showcar Build 1K  0

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 2G DSM
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