2g Talon, turbo, intercooler help

[stealth13]

I have a 96 tsi awd, with the following done. act 2100, 1g bov, hard intercooler piping, intake, kn filter, 3 inch tbe. Im looking at getting the punishment racing fmic kit for it, and running a evo3 turbo. How much boost could i run on the stock fuel pump and injectors? with a 255 walbro?

How much of a gain will this give me over my t-25 @15psi?

Thanks

 

[1G-3G Eclipses]

I have a 96 tsi awd, with the following done. act 2100, 1g bov, hard intercooler piping, intake, kn filter, 3 inch tbe. Im looking at getting the punishment racing fmic kit for it, and running a evo3 turbo. How much boost could i run on the stock fuel pump and injectors? with a 255 walbro?

How much of a gain will this give me over my t-25 @15psi?

Thanks

Im not sure of exact numbers but a walbro isnt much new and a used one can be found for around 60.
Injectors are also easily upgraded cheaply and will allow more boost.

And that would definitely give you more power than the t-25.
Good luck

 

[NeOzz1]

You should not run any more boost than stock on stock fuel pump and injectors, maybe 13-14 psi but that is it.


If you buy a fuel pump the most you should go still is 16psi, maybe 17psi but that may be pushing it.

 

[Mr PopUps]

You should not run any more boost than stock on stock fuel pump and injectors, maybe 13-14 psi but that is it.


If you buy a fuel pump the most you should go still is 16psi, maybe 17psi but that may be pushing it.

Wow nice guessing there man! Do you have any idea what injector duty cycle is? Maxing out the stock 450's isnt as easy as that. Ask Dave Buschur why he only ran 550's in his 7sec car. There are a LOT of variables with something like this, you cant just narrow it down to a guess.

If you can run "maybe 17psi, but thats pushing it" (which is a horrible GUESS, and no better than bench racing) then explain to me why i can put an AFPR, Frank 1, RX-7 TT FP and run 27psi on 110 race gas, and never touch my injectors? Or maybe how about this, running the FP, stock injectors and 20psi on a 14b? On pump gas? Without hitting 80%IDC?

Im sorry if you feel like youre getting reamed, but i mean to be a little stern cause there is a fine line between tuning and blowing stuff up. Im not suggesting that what you said would cause things to blow up, but there is also a difference between a GUESS, and an EDUCATED guess.

To the OP, with everything you listed, without changing your 450's you 'could' run 25psi on that 16G with no ill effects. However, it would be better if you had an AFC or something else to control the fuel, because youll run pig rich at lower boost, and your spool time will be like walking to China. You could also NOT change your FP and run probably 18psi with an AFC and that setup as well. However, bumping up to 550's would not hurt at all.

 

[stealth13]

ya but if I get 550's dont I need a safc or some way to control fuel?

 

[FLASH1970]

Ask Dave Buschur why he only ran 550's in his 7sec car.

550's in a 7 second car? Really? That seems a little far fetched to me. I dunno. I don't want to start an internet fight highjacking this guy's thread.

If you change the injector size, you'll need a way to tune it. SAFC's are good up to about 680cc injectors from what I've read. A 255 pump, 680's, an SAFC, Wideband (or get it tuned somewhere), and an AFPR would compliment a 16g nicely. I'd definitely get an exhaust system too. That should be one of the first things you should get. I like to go the route of a 3" downpipe to the stock exhaust with an electronic cutout at the end of the downpipe. So it's stock looking and quiet when you want and flows nice when you want at the flip of a switch.

More importantly, what is your budget and goals? Let's start there.

 

[chico904]

How much of a gain will this give me over my t-25 @15psi?

Thanks

Anywhere from 0 hp to 747.32 hp difference.

 

[Afroclipse]

There is a ####ING GUIDE on this site on how to MOD your ####ING car, SEARCH SEARCH SEARCH, so please go to the tech tab and click it, if you don't understand anything come back.

 

[NeOzz1]

Wow nice guessing there man! Do you have any idea what injector duty cycle is? Maxing out the stock 450's isnt as easy as that. Ask Dave Buschur why he only ran 550's in his 7sec car. There are a LOT of variables with something like this, you cant just narrow it down to a guess.

If you can run "maybe 17psi, but thats pushing it" (which is a horrible GUESS, and no better than bench racing) then explain to me why i can put an AFPR, Frank 1, RX-7 TT FP and run 27psi on 110 race gas, and never touch my injectors? Or maybe how about this, running the FP, stock injectors and 20psi on a 14b? On pump gas? Without hitting 80%IDC?

Im sorry if you feel like youre getting reamed, but i mean to be a little stern cause there is a fine line between tuning and blowing stuff up. Im not suggesting that what you said would cause things to blow up, but there is also a difference between a GUESS, and an EDUCATED guess.

To the OP, with everything you listed, without changing your 450's you 'could' run 25psi on that 16G with no ill effects. However, it would be better if you had an AFC or something else to control the fuel, because youll run pig rich at lower boost, and your spool time will be like walking to China. You could also NOT change your FP and run probably 18psi with an AFC and that setup as well. However, bumping up to 550's would not hurt at all.

If you listen to this guy feel free to pm me about rebuilding your motor later, I am done posting in this thread.

 

[Fabian]

the punishment kit is a great kit from what I've heard. Very good bang for your buck. Honestly, if I were you, I'd get either a walbro 255 for SURE (since you wanna keep upgrading) or even an evo fuel pump. I have a 95 tsi with 14b and evoIII injectors and I run 16psi on that. No problems yet. I honestly couldnt tell you the max you'll get out of the stock injectors and fuel pump though.

 

[Fabian]

as a matter of fact, importevolution JUST posted up that they're having a sale on their walbro 255 pumps for $80. and injectors for $260 shipped! cant beat that

 

[jeffo]

The biggest limitation you are going to run into is the fuelcut in the ECU. Even if you upgrade the fuelpump, and lean the openloop AFR to 11.0:1 or better, the ECU is still going to shut down the fun at ~17psi. As others have said, you are sort of doing things backwards. Fuel should come first. Get the injectors and fuelpump that will support the boost you want to run. The EVO3 turbo with FMIC should be good to 23+ psi, so you should get 650cc injectors with a 190lph pump at a minimum. If you're on a tight budget, pick up a used set of EVO 560cc injectors and an EVO 9 fuelpump. With a chipped 1995 EPROM ECU the car would drive like stock with all those mods.
keydiver

 

[fergulus]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/226187-useful-calculators.html

A 15 second search of this site pulls up an article with tons of very useful calculators. Find the fuel injector calculator and put in the info. You can find out when your injectors will be maxed out.

 

[joshs1074]

dont forget you will want to do a pump rewire

 

[Mr PopUps]

If you listen to this guy feel free to pm me about rebuilding your motor later, I am done posting in this thread.

Yea, im sure you know it all. You know what a TMO is? Did you even bother to understand that with a higher base pressure, you allow MORE fuel to spit when the inj's fire? Dave Buschur ran a 70psi +/- base pressure. Im trying to find the article, i believe it was in Sprt Compact Car. The inj's may have been 750's the more i think about it, but still, way small for what he was doing. Still looking.....

The biggest limitation you are going to run into is the fuelcut in the ECU. Even if you upgrade the fuelpump, and lean the openloop AFR to 11.0:1 or better, the ECU is still going to shut down the fun at ~17psi. As others have said, you are sort of doing things backwards. Fuel should come first. Get the injectors and fuelpump that will support the boost you want to run. The EVO3 turbo with FMIC should be good to 23+ psi, so you should get 650cc injectors with a 190lph pump at a minimum. If you're on a tight budget, pick up a used set of EVO 560cc injectors and an EVO 9 fuelpump. With a chipped 1995 EPROM ECU the car would drive like stock with all those mods.
keydiver

I never hit FC, but then i modded the 1G MAF ala Blaha with out the door.

P.S. This place is turning into a 2G MitsuCivicishi 'throw a chip in it and be done' board. Or maybe i came around too late and it is.

 

[miniturbo23]

I have 255 walbro fuel pump venom fuel rail and I get fuel cut at 17psi I run 14-15psi only I have 550 injetors but will not put them on untill I install my sacf. also have a wideband I need to install but yeah FC is 4sure there. (I got front mount down pipe exhaust intake and all of that stuff you want to get. but unless you have something to control the fuel you'll get fuel cut.

 

[my dreamt dsm]

Look what you started J/K.

Will, maybe not much. 0- 50 or 70hp seems practical, wheels or crank, you pick!

 

[stealth13]

I already have a inch downpipe and full exhaust to 3.5 inch muffler. I just want to know how much boost I can run with the fuel system stock, besides the pump. I will get around to more upgrade later.

 

[chico904]

I already have a inch downpipe and full exhaust to 3.5 inch muffler. I just want to know how much boost I can run with the fuel system stock, besides the pump. I will get around to more upgrade later.

We cannot tell you how much boost you can run safely, too many variables. Invest in a logger to find out your answer.

 

[Mr PopUps]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/226187-useful-calculators.html

A 15 second search of this site pulls up an article with tons of very useful calculators. Find the fuel injector calculator and put in the info. You can find out when your injectors will be maxed out.

Yea, real useful, you click and it does nothing. Tried IE and FFX.

 

[fergulus]

Yea, real useful, you click and it does nothing. Tried IE and FFX.

Well it's worked on 4 different computers, from internet explorer to firefox to google chrome. It's a simple link to an active tech post on this forum. Do a search for "injector size calculator" and you will find it easy enough.

 

[Mr PopUps]

Well it's worked on 4 different computers, from internet explorer to firefox to google chrome. It's a simple link to an active tech post on this forum. Do a search for "injector size calculator" and you will find it easy enough.

I meant the calc didnt work. But i dont need it, just wanted to check something.

 

[shoobaah]

the punishment kit is a great kit from what I've heard. Very good bang for your buck. Honestly, if I were you, I'd get either a walbro 255 for SURE (since you wanna keep upgrading) or even an evo fuel pump. I have a 95 tsi with 14b and evoIII injectors and I run 16psi on that. No problems yet. I honestly couldnt tell you the max you'll get out of the stock injectors and fuel pump though.

i really love the pr kit that i just got, it has 4ply couplers, everything fit awesome, and it was pretty simple to put together and came with a type s knockoff. my only gripes is that it didnt come with directions (not that i needed them anyways, but just mentioning it). i had to remove my battery as it was too big, it got in the way off the tb pipe, but that is the battery's fault and not the kits. it fit tremendously well for me and it felt top quality. thats just my two cents though~
dylan